# Which part of 'War Zone' don't you understand? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 8, 2005, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-part-of-war-zone-dont-you-understand/293527 "2005-03-08T14:22:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2005, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-part-of-war-zone-dont-you-understand/293527/1 "2005-03-08T14:22:44Z")
Shut up you poison spewing, self important, delusionally egotistical little troll. You may be marginally important to some of your contrymen but a virtual nobody in much of the world at large. Certainly nobody on that checkpoint was aware that you and your rescuers were going to come barreling down the road like a typical Roman taxi driver. Shut your shrill fucking yapper and be greatful that you didn’t end up with a bullet in your skull. If for no other reason than for the memory of your less fortunate rescuer, have a little decorum and show some class by accepting that people risked their lives to get your worthless hyde out of a hostage situation that you very likely walked into yourself. It’s a fucking war zone you pea brained nitwit! When a bunch of heavily armed soldiers at a roadblock warn you to stop, YOU FUCKING STOP! Seems everybody in the fucking country knew that airport road is the most dangerous thru-way in the area, but somehow your driver got so excited that he forgot that little detail?! Tough luck for you and your entourage. They fucked up. Accept responsibility for your own actions and shut your hole you miserable cloth-eared bint. :wally ---
**Author:** ![black\_rabbit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f19dbf/32.png) [@black\_rabbit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/black_rabbit)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2005, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-part-of-war-zone-dont-you-understand/293527/2 "2005-03-08T14:37:31Z")
Yo, jackass: It’s not entirely clear what happened, and given the accounts of many innocent Iraqi civilians who have survived attacks by American troops at these checkpoints, it’s entirely possible that the soldier did indeed fire without adequate warning. [Link](http://nytimes.com/2005/03/07/international/middleeast/07patrols.html). ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2005, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-part-of-war-zone-dont-you-understand/293527/3 "2005-03-08T14:40:47Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > You may be marginally important to some of your contrymen but a virtual nobody in much of the world at large. This is more than most of us. > [@QuickSilver](#): > > Seems everybody in the fucking country knew that airport road is the most dangerous thru-way in the area, but somehow your driver got so excited that he forgot that little detail?! Hard to believe, isn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2005, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-part-of-war-zone-dont-you-understand/293527/4 "2005-03-08T14:42:30Z")
> [@black455](#): > > [\*\*FIXED \*\*Link](http://nytimes.com/2005/03/07/international/middleeast/07patrols.html). at least 2 characters. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2005, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-part-of-war-zone-dont-you-understand/293527/5 "2005-03-08T14:48:50Z")
> [@black455](#): > > Yo, jackass: > > It’s not entirely clear what happened, and given the accounts of many innocent Iraqi civilians who have survived attacks by American troops at these checkpoints, it’s entirely possible that the soldier did indeed fire without adequate warning. > > [Link](http://nytimes.com/2005/03/07/international/middleeast/07patrols.html). First, learn to post links. Second, it’s seems clear to me and most rational people: When in a war zone, approach everyone and everything with caution. They may be well armed soldiers but, as demostrated time and again, they are not impervious to suicide bombers and enemy fire. These are frightened young men with orders to shoot at the slightest provocation. You’d think that a seasoned security expert returning from a rescue mission would be cognisant of his surroundings and situation. I’m not suggesting that it wasn’t a mistake. I’m just saying both sides made it. Sad and unfortunate but hardly premeditated. ---
**Author:** ![Phatlewt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a698b9/32.png) [@Phatlewt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Phatlewt)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2005, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-part-of-war-zone-dont-you-understand/293527/6 "2005-03-08T14:52:48Z")
How do you warn someone to stop? What is adequate warning? You can’t let the vehicle get close, because of the concern about car bombs. According to [Evan Wright](http://www.google.com/search?q=Evan+Wright) who spent the military phase of the war embedded with the Marine’s First Recon Division, typically the warning to stop was firing a few tracer rounds over the approaching car. Many drivers would increase speed when under fire. They also tried firing red smoke grenades. Red means stop in the U.S. Is that true worldwide? Many Iraqis fled the red smoke, fearing a gas attack. This isn’t the first instance of civilians coming under fire at roadblocks, and it won’t be the last. We don’t have a good method to warn them to stop and turn away. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2005, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-part-of-war-zone-dont-you-understand/293527/7 "2005-03-08T15:10:18Z")
> [@Phatlewt](#): > > How do you warn someone to stop? What is adequate warning? You can’t let the vehicle get close, because of the concern about car bombs. According to [Evan Wright](http://www.google.com/search?q=Evan+Wright) who spent the military phase of the war embedded with the Marine’s First Recon Division, typically the warning to stop was firing a few tracer rounds over the approaching car. Many drivers would increase speed when under fire. They also tried firing red smoke grenades. Red means stop in the U.S. Is that true worldwide? Many Iraqis fled the red smoke, fearing a gas attack. But we are not dealing with civilians here. Nor are we dealing with Iraqis. These were trained Italian secret service agents on a notoriously dangerous roadway with a rescued hostage in the car. What the fuck were they thinking? Did they have a plan that was more than just a pay, snatch and run?! > [@Phatlewt](#): > > This isn’t the first instance of civilians coming under fire at roadblocks, and it won’t be the last. We don’t have a good method to warn them to stop and turn away. C’est la guerre. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2005, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-part-of-war-zone-dont-you-understand/293527/8 "2005-03-08T15:15:43Z")
Oh, if only the shoe was on the other foot. Imagine the headlines: “CIA agent killed in daring rescue of hostage from bloodthirsty terrorists; investigation bears in on trigger-happy Italian troops.” What do you think the tone of the rants in the Pit would be? Would they excoriate the hostage and the secret agent for fleeing from the horrible, horrible terrorists, and defend the “frightened young men who had orders to fire at the slightest provocation?” Or would it blame the whole situation on those damned f’rners? I’m betting on the latter. (And, for the record, I have no idea who is to blame for the whole shooting mess. I’m just sick and tired of the “pin the blame on the non-Americans” game.) ---
**Author:** ![Turek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/turek/32/18782_2.png) [@Turek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Turek)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2005, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-part-of-war-zone-dont-you-understand/293527/9 "2005-03-08T15:27:23Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > (And, for the record, I have no idea who is to blame for the whole shooting mess. I’m just sick and tired of the “pin the blame on the non-Americans” game.) And there are plenty of folks around here who are tired of the “pin the blame on the Americans” game. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2005, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-part-of-war-zone-dont-you-understand/293527/10 "2005-03-08T15:47:39Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Oh, if only the shoe was on the other foot. Imagine the headlines: “CIA agent killed in daring rescue of hostage from bloodthirsty terrorists; investigation bears in on trigger-happy Italian troops.” > > What do you think the tone of the rants in the Pit would be? Would they excoriate the hostage and the secret agent for fleeing from the horrible, horrible terrorists, and defend the “frightened young men who had orders to fire at the slightest provocation?” Or would it blame the whole situation on those damned f’rners? > > I’m betting on the latter. > > (And, for the record, I have no idea who is to blame for the whole shooting mess. I’m just sick and tired of the “pin the blame on the non-Americans” game.) I suppose it’s convenient and much more fun to ignore the fact that I blame both sides for the error. But I think it’s fair to note that American’s officials are not suggesting in any way that those _“damn f’rners”_ had no business being on that road. They are simply saying that it was an unfortunate accident. HOWEVER, the foreign media, Italian specifically, immediately jumped all over American forces and US hostage (non)negotiation policy. ---
**Author:** ![Waverly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/57b2e6/32.png) [@Waverly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Waverly)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2005, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-part-of-war-zone-dont-you-understand/293527/11 "2005-03-08T15:52:32Z")
> [@](#): > > “It was certainly an accident, an accident caused by a series of circumstances and coincidences. But this doesn’t mean, in fact it makes it necessary, to demand that events are clarified, to ask for explanations of the points that are still unclear, to identify those responsible, and if people are to blame then to request and obtain that the guilty parties are punished.” - _Fini_ Sounds reasonable to me. It’s a request for a full explanation. An attempt to reconcile two conflicting reports. The OP is willfully stupid. I wouldn’t be so quick to shrug off the death of an agent who, after extricating the reporter, shielded him from the gunfire with his own body, with asinine commentary like “tough luck for you and your entourage.” ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2005, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-part-of-war-zone-dont-you-understand/293527/12 "2005-03-08T16:10:59Z")
> [@Waverly](#): > > Sounds reasonable to me. It’s a request for a full explanation. An attempt to reconcile two conflicting reports. In the end, cooler heads will prevail. Of that I’m almost certain. My OP was with respect to the initial and immediate condemnation of the soldiers at the checkpoint and, in fact, the ‘supposed’ US policy towards this raving loon of a reporter. As if she was even a consideration at the time of the incident. :rolleyes: > [@Waverly](#): > > The OP is willfully stupid. I wouldn’t be so quick to shrug off the death of an agent who, after extricating the reporter, shielded him from the gunfire with his own body, with asinine commentary like “tough luck for you and your entourage.” I did not suggest the agent in question was not heroic. I was genuinely sincere in my sentiments about the unfortunate turn of events. I should have chosen my words more carefully. But I’m also suggesting he and his associate fucked up and one paid the ultimate price. They should have known better. And just for the record, my anger is not with the agents but with the self important ranting reporter they risked everything to rescue. ---
**Author:** ![Estilicon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/848f3c/32.png) [@Estilicon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Estilicon)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2005, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-part-of-war-zone-dont-you-understand/293527/13 "2005-03-08T16:12:57Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > C’est la guerre. Remember that phrase next time someone crashes an airliner into an american building. ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2005, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-part-of-war-zone-dont-you-understand/293527/14 "2005-03-08T16:22:58Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Shut up you poison spewing, self important, delusionally egotistical little troll. You may be marginally important to some of your contrymen but a virtual nobody in much of the world at large. > > Certainly nobody on that checkpoint was aware that you and your rescuers were going to come barreling down the road like a typical Roman taxi driver. > > Shut your shrill fucking yapper and be greatful that you didn’t end up with a bullet in your skull. If for no other reason than for the memory of your less fortunate rescuer, have a little decorum and show some class by accepting that people risked their lives to get your worthless hyde out of a hostage situation that you very likely walked into yourself. > > It’s a fucking war zone you pea brained nitwit! When a bunch of heavily armed soldiers at a roadblock warn you to stop, YOU FUCKING STOP! Seems everybody in the fucking country knew that airport road is the most dangerous thru-way in the area, but somehow your driver got so excited that he forgot that little detail?! Tough luck for you and your entourage. They fucked up. Accept responsibility for your own actions and shut your hole you miserable cloth-eared bint. > > :wally Jackass. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2005, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-part-of-war-zone-dont-you-understand/293527/15 "2005-03-08T16:24:01Z")
I assume the OP is reacting to the reporter’s nonsensical claims that the Americans deliberately targeted her. And no, we don’t have a good way to tell people to stop for roadblocks but I would think a bunch of guys holding machine guns would be a dead giveaway that you should probably proceed with caution. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2005, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-part-of-war-zone-dont-you-understand/293527/16 "2005-03-08T16:33:40Z")
> [@Estilicon](#): > > Remember that phrase next time someone crashes an airliner into an american building. :rolleyes: Don’t be an idiot. ---
**Author:** ![Waverly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/57b2e6/32.png) [@Waverly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Waverly)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2005, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-part-of-war-zone-dont-you-understand/293527/17 "2005-03-08T16:35:40Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > My OP was with respect to the initial and immediate condemnation of the soldiers at the checkpoint and, in fact, the ‘supposed’ US policy towards this raving loon of a reporter. As if she was even a consideration at the time of the incident. :rolleyes: None of this clear in your OP. The only thing you leave clear is which incident it refers to. Since the only thing between the reporter and a hail of bullets was the dead agent, I think that she might consider herself a ‘consideration’. > [@](#): > > I was genuinely sincere in my sentiments about the unfortunate turn of events. Ah. Which of the following statements best captures your sincerity? “Tough luck” or “They fucked up” [assuming of course that the driver made an error, which is still disputed.] ---
**Author:** ![Ithaka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Ithaka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ithaka)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2005, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-part-of-war-zone-dont-you-understand/293527/18 "2005-03-08T16:46:32Z")
Hmmm, possibly the most ignorant and piss-brained OP I’ve seen. **Quicksilver** , what exactly is your experience of war zones and how they work?\* If you have any how does it justify the ill-aimed bile spewing that you posted? Get a grip. \*And I thought it wasn’t officially a “war zone” anymore? ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2005, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-part-of-war-zone-dont-you-understand/293527/19 "2005-03-08T16:47:53Z")
> [@Waverly](#): > > None of this clear in your OP. The only thing you leave clear is which incident it refers to. Since the only thing between the reporter and a hail of bullets was the dead agent, I think that she might consider herself a ‘consideration’. Yeah, the roadblocks were posted there by the US military for the soul purpose of killing her. :rolleyes: > [@Waverly](#): > > Ah. Which of the following statements best captures your sincerity? > “Tough luck” > or > “They fucked up” [assuming of course that the driver made an error, which is still disputed.] Tough luck in the best possible sense (if that’s at all possible). Mostly I view it as an unfortunate screw up on both sides. From a practical and entirely self preservational point of view, in a similar situation, I’d submit as much as possible to the rules of the people most heavily armed. ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2005, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-part-of-war-zone-dont-you-understand/293527/20 "2005-03-08T17:09:53Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Don’t be an idiot. And the award for the Most Incisive Use of Non-Sequitur as a Rhetorical Device goes to… [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-part-of-war-zone-dont-you-understand/293527.md?page=2)