# Which party are conservatives supposed to support these days? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 28, 2006, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-party-are-conservatives-supposed-to-support-these-days/362484 "2006-06-28T13:14:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2006, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-party-are-conservatives-supposed-to-support-these-days/362484/41 "2006-06-29T00:23:46Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Can you name any modern democracy **without** political parties? Parties are useful. They articulate policy along the lines of broad ideological tendencies. We **need** that, to give us real alternatives to choose among – and to circumvent the daunting, chaotic challenge of trying to choose among candidates solely as individuals. > > I repeat what I’ve often said on this board: A multiparty system is better than a two-party system. It is also better than a nonpartisan system. (Assuming such a thing were even possible. We have “nonpartisan” elections in many municipalities, but they’re not, really; everybody knows who is the Pub and who is the Dem.) Regarding the above, see [this](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=334363) old thread (which drew surprisingly few responses). ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2006, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-party-are-conservatives-supposed-to-support-these-days/362484/42 "2006-06-29T00:43:13Z")
> [@Renob](#): > > No, Democrats in Congress want to spend more and raise taxes, but lack the votes to accomplish this. Why, you’re right! The last time we had a Democratic Congress under a Democratic President (1992-1994) there was a mad frenzy of spending and taxing! Oh, no, wait. The spending increases of the Reagan/Bush years actually levelled off in 1992 when Clinton was elected. The biggest spending frenzy of the last 40 years is occurring RIGHT NOW, when the Republicans control both Congress and the Presidency. The Republicans have been LYING to you about what they stand for. They SAID they would spend less than the Democrats, but, in fact, as soon as they were solidly in power they went on a spending binge worse than anything Lyndon Johnson ever did. One party spends LESS but is honest about how much they’ll spend. The other party spends MORE and lies through their teeth about it. And yet, for some reason, people continue to vote Republican … . :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2006, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-party-are-conservatives-supposed-to-support-these-days/362484/43 "2006-06-29T02:46:12Z")
> [@Renob](#): > > At least the GOP holds the line on taxes. This isn’t dig. Its a genuine question… I’m not sure how this figures on the political compass, but surely that makes even LESS sense from a fiscally conservative point of view. As a fiscal conservative you may want to cut spending AND taxes, but surely if you JUST cutting taxes (or in fact cut taxes and INCREASE spending) will WORSEN the fiscal situation not improve it… Any libertarians/fiscal conservatives care to comment ? ---
**Author:** ![UncleBeer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/977dab/32.png) [@UncleBeer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBeer)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2006, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-party-are-conservatives-supposed-to-support-these-days/362484/44 "2006-06-29T14:58:54Z")
> [@Pochacco](#): > > Oh, no, wait. The spending increases of the Reagan/Bush years actually levelled off in 1992 when Clinton was elected. The biggest spending frenzy of the last 40 years is occurring RIGHT NOW, when the Republicans control both Congress and the Presidency. > [@griffin1977](#): > > I’m not sure how this figures on the political compass, but surely that makes even LESS sense from a fiscally conservative point of view. As a fiscal conservative you may want to cut spending AND taxes, but surely if you JUST cutting taxes (or in fact cut taxes and INCREASE spending) will WORSEN the fiscal situation not improve it… You guys are preaching to the choir. Renob has said several times that he strongly dislikes the spending habits of the current Republican controlled goverment. That point, in fact, is one major theme of the thread. Renob’s made that point; I made that point; hell, zuma made that point in the OP. I don’t understand your stridency about this particular thing when we’re all in agreement. ---
**Author:** ![UncleBeer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/977dab/32.png) [@UncleBeer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBeer)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2006, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-party-are-conservatives-supposed-to-support-these-days/362484/45 "2006-06-29T15:00:21Z")
> [@Steve MB](#): > > Dereliction Of Duty: The Constitutional Record of President Clinton > > Clinton’s Record on Civil Liberties > > So Long, Civil Liberties - Pres. Clinton’s Stance On Crime > > The Clinton Administration Builds its Campaign Against Privacy Thanks for those, Steve. Good links and good examples. I guess my memory ain’t what it used to be. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2006, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-party-are-conservatives-supposed-to-support-these-days/362484/46 "2006-06-29T15:07:04Z")
> [@griffin1977](#): > > As a fiscal conservative you may want to cut spending AND taxes, but surely if you JUST cutting taxes (or in fact cut taxes and INCREASE spending) will WORSEN the fiscal situation not improve it… OTOH, a whopping deficit with crippling debt service might bring us closer to the day when Grover Norquist can drown the federal government in a bathtub. It all depends on what your “conservative” goals actually are. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2006, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-party-are-conservatives-supposed-to-support-these-days/362484/47 "2006-06-29T16:48:40Z")
> [@UncleBeer](#): > > You guys are preaching to the choir. Renob has said several times that he strongly dislikes the spending habits of the current Republican controlled goverment. That point, in fact, is one major theme of the thread. Renob’s made that point; I made that point; hell, zuma made that point in the OP. I don’t understand your stridency about this particular thing when we’re all in agreement. Yes, but \*\*Renob \*\* continues to maintain that however irresponsible the Republicans are, the Democrats are WORSE. Which, by objective measures of how the two parties have run the country when they’ve each been in power, is just NOT TRUE. The point is that the “tax-n-spend liberal” talking point is just the Republican party blowing smoke up our asses. It’s meaningless noise that they repeat over and over again because they like how it sounds. But it hasn’t had any grounding in reality since the late 1960’s. **We all agree that Republicans suck when it comes to handling money.** The question is, do the Democrats suck too? The Republican party and their cheerleaders say over and over again that they do, but they have a vested interest in making the other side look bad. All I know is that spending (and deficit spending in particular) jumps under Republican Presidents and holds steady or drops under Democratic Presidents. When the Democrats controlled both Congress and the Presidency, spending stayed level. When the Republicans controlled both Congress and the Presidency, spending exploded. It seems to me that if fiscal responsibility is an important issue for you, you should vote Democrat. It’s one of the reasons I do. ---
**Author:** ![Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e480ec/32.png) [@Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Least_Original_User_Name_Ever)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2006, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-party-are-conservatives-supposed-to-support-these-days/362484/48 "2006-06-29T18:31:02Z")
You are screwed. The Repubs use the mantra of Dems are tax and spend. They repeat endlessly believing the facts can be ignored. If you think deficits are dangerous we are in big trouble. It has been done by Repubs. If your programming is such that you cant accept the Clinton years had full employment high profitability for business and a balanced budget you are more screwed. You have nowhere to turn. When Reagan stopped the equal air time for opposing viewpoints ,he effectively killed third party chances. Believe it or not there was a time when Nader , Communists and other parties could present their ideas. We are afraid of ideas now. ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2006, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-party-are-conservatives-supposed-to-support-these-days/362484/49 "2006-06-29T21:10:31Z")
Conservatives should support the GOP and George Bush because they’re destroying the country with the greatest efficiency possible. And that’s what you want, right? ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2006, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-party-are-conservatives-supposed-to-support-these-days/362484/50 "2006-06-29T21:29:33Z")
> [@Renob](#): > > Between the two major parties it’s a hard choice, but it’s probably still the GOP. Democrats are certainly not the party of fiscal discipline. While the GOP is spending way too much money in DC, Democrats want to spend even more. And while they are at it, they want to raise taxes. At least the GOP holds the line on taxes. Which is actually less fiscally responsible. Instead of raising taxes; they take out loans, which will have to be paid, with interest, by tax dollars, by a future Congress, long after the benefits are moot. Attempting to fund government projects on borrowed money may be “conservative,” but it’s completely uneconomical–unless a state has no choice, such as when at war for its very survival while having an insufficient GNP to provide enough taxes. We are secure & have a monstrous GNP. Anyone voting for deficits is a Damned Fool & ought to be molested in the streets for it. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2006, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-party-are-conservatives-supposed-to-support-these-days/362484/51 "2006-06-29T21:33:31Z")
:cough: > [@Merriam-Webster](#): > > \*\*mo·lest \*\* > Pronunciation: m&-'lest > Function: transitive verb > Etymology: Middle English, from Middle French molester, from Latin molestare, from molestus burdensome, annoying; akin to Latin moles mass > 1 : to annoy, disturb, or persecute especially with hostile intent or injurious effect > 2 : to make annoying sexual advances to; especially : to force physical and usually sexual contact on I mean definition one. I don’t actually want sexual contact with those economically destroying my country. But “assaulted” seemed too strong, & possibly legally actionable. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2006, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-party-are-conservatives-supposed-to-support-these-days/362484/52 "2006-06-30T18:16:48Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > Attempting to fund government projects on borrowed money may be “conservative,” but it’s completely uneconomical–unless a state has no choice, such as when at war for its very survival while having an insufficient GNP to provide enough taxes. We are secure & have a monstrous GNP. Anyone voting for deficits is a Damned Fool & ought to be molested in the streets for it. Mebbe the current Republican leadership figures they can trigger the End Times before the bills are due. 😉 It’d certainly explain the conservatives’ unquestioning support of Israel and the Bush Administration’s escalation of global instability, at least… ---
**Author:** ![Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e480ec/32.png) [@Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Least_Original_User_Name_Ever)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2006, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-party-are-conservatives-supposed-to-support-these-days/362484/53 "2006-06-30T19:30:28Z")
We must remember the republican fiscal irresponsibility is deliberate and two pronged. It has aimed to reward the wealthy and big donators for making their election possible. It has also set things in motion to dismantle the “entititlement programs”. They want to have no money wasted on education , welfare, FEMA or anything that can concievably be turned into a profit. Starve the beast , is whats happening but it isnt irresponsibility.Merely cruel and selfish. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-party-are-conservatives-supposed-to-support-these-days/362484.md?page=2)