# Which party does the Libertarian Party have more in common with? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 10, 2020, 7:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-party-does-the-libertarian-party-have-more-in-common-with/855349 "2020-06-10T07:02:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![scarface54345](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/90ced4/32.png) [@scarface54345](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scarface54345)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2020, 7:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-party-does-the-libertarian-party-have-more-in-common-with/855349/1 "2020-06-10T07:02:59Z")
Dunno what to put here for “message”… ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2020, 7:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-party-does-the-libertarian-party-have-more-in-common-with/855349/2 "2020-06-10T07:15:53Z")
The Republicans. The libertarians have basically nothing in common with the Democrats. Libertarians are a mix of Randian “Objectivists” and white nationalists who fit in fine with the Republicans, though. ---
**Author:** ![Asuka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@Asuka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asuka)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2020, 8:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-party-does-the-libertarian-party-have-more-in-common-with/855349/3 "2020-06-10T08:31:04Z")
Disbanding the police and ICE sounds like the most libertarian idea ever and now that seems to be a major plank of the current far-left wing of the Democratic party. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2020, 9:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-party-does-the-libertarian-party-have-more-in-common-with/855349/4 "2020-06-10T09:21:09Z")
At an institutional level, it’s obviously the Republican Party. There’s very little crossover between politicians of the LP and the Democratic Party, whereas the Libertarians have have nominated washed-up Republican ex-officeholders for president at least **five** times since 1972 (Roger MacBride, Ron Paul, Bob Barr, and Gary Johnson twice). ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2020, 12:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-party-does-the-libertarian-party-have-more-in-common-with/855349/5 "2020-06-10T12:11:53Z")
> [@Asuka](#): > > Disbanding the police and ICE sounds like the most libertarian idea ever and now that seems to be a major plank of the current far-left wing of the Democratic party. Not really: libertarians regard the police and courts as necessities. At any rate, what the lefties are saying isn’t “we don’t need police” but rather “the problems of the police in many places are too deeply rooted to reform existing police departments, so let’s defund those PDs and replace them with something with a whole different attitude.” Not sure how that squares with libertarianism. ---
**Author:** ![Dag\_Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@Dag\_Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dag_Otto)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2020, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-party-does-the-libertarian-party-have-more-in-common-with/855349/6 "2020-06-10T12:21:44Z")
Neither. Republicans and Democrats actually win elections. ---
**Author:** ![FlikTheBlue](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fliktheblue/32/10972_2.png) [@FlikTheBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlikTheBlue)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2020, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-party-does-the-libertarian-party-have-more-in-common-with/855349/7 "2020-06-10T14:09:40Z")
Definitely the Republicans. Rand Paul is basically a Libertarian who runs as a Republican. I don’t think he would do it in the age of Trump, but I could see an alternate timeline where someone like Mitt Romney was the POTUS and Paul changed from R to L and still won. ---
**Author:** ![CelticKnot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/celticknot/32/3392_2.png) [@CelticKnot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CelticKnot)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2020, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-party-does-the-libertarian-party-have-more-in-common-with/855349/8 "2020-06-10T14:31:38Z")
There’s the Libertarian Party, and then there’s Libertarians. Be careful about conflating the two. Gary Johnson is no Libertarian. As far as I could tell, he just liked pot. I can’t understand how a group that advocates for open borders, especially when not saying much about the Welfare state, can be called White Nationalists. ---
**Author:** ![Pantastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3bc359/32.png) [@Pantastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pantastic)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2020, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-party-does-the-libertarian-party-have-more-in-common-with/855349/9 "2020-06-10T14:53:37Z")
It’s slippery to figure out what a ‘libertarian’ is in practice, since there is a lot of variation and deliberately confusing language. For example, you’d expect the Non Aggression Principle’s ‘No initiation of force’ to lead to support for extremely strong anti-pollution laws, as you’d need to get permission from everyone who breathes in your waste before releasing it into the environment, but most real-world libertarians hate anti-pollution laws. In practice they almost always align very strongly with Republicans, tend to downplay the parts of their philosophy that should be more liberal, and most of the ‘left wing’ stuff in their platform tends to fit neither party (notably smaller military and limited foreign entanglements). I’ve pointed out on these boards before that Trump has been implementing multiple pieces of the Libertarian platform all over domestic institutions - gutting the power of the EPA to regulate pollution, gutting the power of the SEC to regulate financial markets, having the Department of Education cut services and programs, fighting against any kind of UHC, and removing and weakening anti-discrimination protections for minorities. A number of major pieces of Trump’s domestic policy are exactly what one could expect to experience should a miracle happen and Libertarians end up in a position to implement their platform, and I think that is pretty telling. Here are quotes from the 2016 Libertarian Party Platform that match up with the Trump platform I mentioned above: > [@](#): > > Competitive free markets and property rights stimulate the technological innovations and behavioral changes required to protect our environment and ecosystems. Private landowners and conservation groups have a vested interest in maintaining natural resources. Governments are unaccountable for damage done to our environment and have a terrible track record when it comes to environmental protection. Protecting the environment requires a clear definition and enforcement of individual rights and responsibilities regarding resources like land, water, air, and wildlife. Where damages can be proven and quantified in a court of law, restitution to the injured parties must be required > [@](#): > > We favor free-market banking, with unrestricted competition among banks and depository institutions of all types. Markets are not actually free unless fraud is vigorously combated. Those who enjoy the possibility of profits must not impose risks of losses upon others, such as through government guarantees or bailouts. Individuals engaged in voluntary exchange should be free to use as money any mutually agreeable commodity or item. We support a halt to inflationary monetary policies and unconstitutional legal tender laws. > [@](#): > > Education is best provided by the free market, achieving greater quality, accountability and efficiency with more diversity of choice. Recognizing that the education of children is a parental responsibility, we would restore authority to parents to determine the education of their children, without interference from government. Parents should have control of and responsibility for all funds expended for their children’s education > [@](#): > > We favor a free-market health care system. We recognize the freedom of individuals to determine the level of health insurance they want (if any), the level of health care they want, the care providers they want, the medicines and treatments they will use and all other aspects of their medical care, including end-of-life decisions. People should be free to purchase health insurance across state lines. > [@](#): > > Libertarians embrace the concept that all people are born with certain inherent rights. We reject the idea that a natural right can ever impose an obligation upon others to fulfill that “right.” We condemn bigotry as irrational and repugnant. Government should neither deny nor abridge any individual’s human right based upon sex, wealth, ethnicity, creed, age, national origin, personal habits, political preference or sexual orientation. Members of private organizations retain their rights to set whatever standards of association they deem appropriate, and individuals are free to respond with ostracism, boycotts and other free-market solutions. ---
**Author:** ![mbh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a6a055/32.png) [@mbh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mbh)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2020, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-party-does-the-libertarian-party-have-more-in-common-with/855349/10 "2020-06-10T15:04:33Z")
If you deviate from the Republican Party line, conservatives will say “Well, you’re nuts on this issue, but we can work together on that issue.” If you deviate from the Democratic Party line, you get accused of racism, sexism, homophobia, and drowning kittens. You get bombarded with _ad hominem_ attacks, and inundated with strawman arguments. Republicans are coldly polite to, and grudgingly tolerant of libertarians. Democrats are actively and aggressively hostile to libertarians. ---
**Author:** ![Pantastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3bc359/32.png) [@Pantastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pantastic)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2020, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-party-does-the-libertarian-party-have-more-in-common-with/855349/11 "2020-06-10T15:32:00Z")
> [@mbh](#): > > If you deviate from the Republican Party line, conservatives will say “Well, you’re nuts on this issue, but we can work together on that issue.” > > If you deviate from the Democratic Party line, you get accused of racism, sexism, homophobia, and drowning kittens. You get bombarded with _ad hominem_ attacks, and inundated with strawman arguments. > > Republicans are coldly polite to, and grudgingly tolerant of libertarians. > Democrats are actively and aggressively hostile to libertarians. So what you’re saying is that Republicans are fine with racism, sexism, homophobia, and drowning kittens (?), and are willing to work with people who engage in it, but Democrats aren’t fine with blatant discrimination against and mistreatment of minorities, and that therefore are ‘aggressively hostile’ to libertarians because libertarians are usually into such things? The claim that deviating from the Democratic Party line leads to being “accused of racism, sexism, homophobia, and drowning kittens” doesn’t appear to be borne out by the facts. For example, AOC and Bernie Sanders both deviate greatly from the Democratic Party line, but there’s not a general condemnation from Democrats of them as being racist, sexist, homophobic, or of drowning kittens. Meanwhile Republicans have their own set of things to call people who deviate from their party line on certain issues, “degenerates”, “feminazis”, “un-american”, “anti-christian”, and so on. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2020, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-party-does-the-libertarian-party-have-more-in-common-with/855349/12 "2020-06-10T15:47:33Z")
Voted GOP. Am probably influenced by libertarians in my family. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2020, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-party-does-the-libertarian-party-have-more-in-common-with/855349/13 "2020-06-10T16:03:15Z")
> [@Asuka](#): > > Disbanding the police and ICE sounds like the most libertarian idea ever and now that seems to be a major plank of the current far-left wing of the Democratic party. This succeeds in wildly misrepresenting the views of both libertarians and Democrats. ---
**Author:** ![Taber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ac91a4/32.png) [@Taber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Taber)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2020, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-party-does-the-libertarian-party-have-more-in-common-with/855349/14 "2020-06-10T17:48:52Z")
In practice, they seem to always vote with the Republicans, but in theory it seems like it should be an even split. There are issues Democrats favor smaller government: abortion, weed, gay rights, immigration, and the Democrats more often give lip service to avoiding war and spying on Americans. On the other hand, Republicans favor smaller government on taxes, welfare, regulatory agencies, and affirmative action. Republicans also give more lip service to fiscal conservatism. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2020, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-party-does-the-libertarian-party-have-more-in-common-with/855349/15 "2020-06-10T18:04:33Z")
Republicans and Democrats have some (sometimes tenuous) connection with Reality. Libertarians…not so much. ---
**Author:** ![Pantastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3bc359/32.png) [@Pantastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pantastic)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2020, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-party-does-the-libertarian-party-have-more-in-common-with/855349/16 "2020-06-10T18:18:06Z")
> [@Taber](#): > > In practice, they seem to always vote with the Republicans, but in theory it seems like it should be an even split. There are issues Democrats favor smaller government: abortion, weed, gay rights, immigration, and the Democrats more often give lip service to avoiding war and spying on Americans. On the other hand, Republicans favor smaller government on taxes, welfare, regulatory agencies, and affirmative action. Republicans also give more lip service to fiscal conservatism. Republicans do not actually favor smaller government on taxes or welfare, they just favor smaller taxes for the ultra-rich and welfare for the rich and large companies. Republicans again only favor smaller regulatory agencies for the rich and large companies - republicans absolutely love regulatory agencies for the poor and middle class, in the form of police and other law enforcement agencies. Libertarians philosophically should be really opposed to Republicans on all of those issues, but somehow seem to find common ground. And yes, the fact that being pro-discrimination (‘affirmative action’ is pretty clearly a dog whistle for opposition to anti-discrimination laws) is a plus for both libertarians and republicans is… disappointing. ---
**Author:** ![Corry\_El](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecae2f/32.png) [@Corry\_El](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Corry_El)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2020, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-party-does-the-libertarian-party-have-more-in-common-with/855349/17 "2020-06-10T19:50:18Z")
> [@CelticKnot](#): > > 1. There’s the Libertarian Party, and then there’s Libertarians. Be careful about conflating the two. > > 2. Gary Johnson is no Libertarian. As far as I could tell, he just liked pot. > > 3. I can’t understand how a group that advocates for open borders, especially when not saying much about the Welfare state, can be called White Nationalists. 1. That’s pretty common though when a term refers either to a ideology or a basically unsuccessful political party ostensibly promoting it. Democratic and Republican aren’t ideologies even in they tend to be the parties of left and right respectively more than they were long ago. But both are highly successful parties centered around building coalitions and winning elections as opposed to promoting any pure ideology. Even parties with started out with more recent and modern ideological names than ‘Democratic’ and ‘Republican’, like various ‘Socialist’ parties in Europe, are also coalitions focused on winning, not actually a phalanx of pure Socialists. The Libs are only expected to be otherwise because they are a non-serious curiosity. 2. As in 1. being led by ‘washed up liberal Republicans’ like Johnson is a potentially (not actually so far) viable way to become a real party that actually wins. That would never happen with looney tune internet Libertarians in charge. So OK we can call the internet ‘real’ Libertarians but then it’s something never going anywhere as a party and so not really worth discussing. Not that I’m a Gary Johnson fan. 3. I agree, don’t know where that one comes one, white supremacist Libertarians. Again among all the individual people on the internet with every weird combination of views there must be some of those. But Libertarian is only really important if that party could actually make itself a major one. In which process they would not really attract white supremacists (in other than the broadest sense like ‘all but sufficiently far left whites are white supremacists’) who are interested in stuff like, you know, white supremacy. They are not focused on stuff like a less regulated economy, tend to be opposed to freer trade in goods/services/capital (as rightist populists generally are), strongly opposed to freer movement of people across borders, and only incidentally in favor legalized drugs because they’re often druggies, not on principle. ---
**Author:** ![Taber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ac91a4/32.png) [@Taber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Taber)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2020, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-party-does-the-libertarian-party-have-more-in-common-with/855349/18 "2020-06-10T20:01:04Z")
> [@Pantastic](#): > > Republicans do not actually favor smaller government on taxes or welfare, they just favor smaller taxes for the ultra-rich and welfare for the rich and large companies. Republicans again only favor smaller regulatory agencies for the rich and large companies - republicans absolutely love regulatory agencies for the poor and middle class, in the form of police and other law enforcement agencies. Libertarians philosophically should be really opposed to Republicans on all of those issues, but somehow seem to find common ground. And yes, the fact that being pro-discrimination (‘affirmative action’ is pretty clearly a dog whistle for opposition to anti-discrimination laws) is a plus for both libertarians and republicans is… disappointing. You’re right, I definitely missed some things in my list. Add welfare for the rich under things Democrats pay lip service to and remove welfare from the Republican list (after all, they are trying to heavily regulate welfare for the poor as well.) Also remove regulatory agencies, as Libertarians maintain that police is a justifiable use of government, that should include police for companies. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2020, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-party-does-the-libertarian-party-have-more-in-common-with/855349/19 "2020-06-10T20:28:34Z")
> [@Corry\_El](#): > > 1. I agree, don’t know where that one comes one, white supremacist Libertarians. They’ve been [joined at the hip](https://www.salon.com/2019/01/04/heres-why-this-economist-believes-libertarianism-is-essentially-a-form-of-white-supremacy_partner/) for decades at the very least. One of the key “liberties” that libertarians consistently push for _is_ the liberty to persecute non-whites. And for that matter women, homosexuals and so on. ---
**Author:** ![dorvann](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/df705f/32.png) [@dorvann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dorvann)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2020, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-party-does-the-libertarian-party-have-more-in-common-with/855349/20 "2020-06-10T20:29:49Z")
I would say **The Libertarian Party** has more in common with the Republicans at this point. As a someone who would describe his views as libertarian I don’t support either of those parties. The LP is influenced too much by Randian utopians who think that free markets are the cure for everything for my tastes. And the RP is too influenced by theocratic Christian conservatives(like the current vice president Mike Pence) fro my tates. I didn’t vote for Trump in 2016 and I am not going to again this year. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-party-does-the-libertarian-party-have-more-in-common-with/855349.md?page=2)