# Which party is wrong? The judge or parents?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-party-is-wrong-the-judge-or-parents/294967
**Category:** Great Debates
**Created:** [March 17, 2005, 9:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-party-is-wrong-the-judge-or-parents/294967 "2005-03-17T09:44:17Z")
**Posts on this page:** 11
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@duffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duffer)
#### Post date: [March 17, 2005, 9:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-party-is-wrong-the-judge-or-parents/294967/1 "2005-03-17T09:44:17Z")
I almost put this in the Pit, but I’m not sure which party is worthy, if any, of my rancor.
[This](http://www.journalnow.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=WSJ%2FMGArticle%2FWSJ_BasicArticle&c=MGArticle&cid=1031781441219&path=!localnews&s=1037645509099) is the case in point.
The debate in my head is focused on the kid having ADHD. I have Adult ADD and can see where the argument of the school(s) missing it comes into play. (I’d love to bring suit against my school district for missing it. But won’t as it’s my deal.)
But whom is the pit-worthy in this case?
Please keep in mind if you don’t read the linked article, this is an _11 year old child._
A. The kid storming out of the courtroom and kicking a door. Well, seems he’s impetuous (sp?) and has no idea how to act towards a judge in his courtroom. Or can’t control himself.
B. The school administrator that began this fuck-fest over an _unloaded_…umm… **BB gun**! Guess where I’m laying my money?
C. The parents. After all, many will probably view access to an evil gun as akin to child abuse. But it has little to no weight on this case.
So, who’s pitworthy?
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### Author:  [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)
#### Post date: [March 17, 2005, 10:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-party-is-wrong-the-judge-or-parents/294967/2 "2005-03-17T10:01:54Z")
The school administrator is at the top of my list. I understand that the school probably has a zero tolerance policy, but it shouldn’t be to the detriment of the student(s). That administrator has not only hurt this particular student, but has also suceeded in discouraging any student in a similar situation from taking appropriate action! What else should the child have done?
The second judge is not at fault. The case probably needs to go to a judge who _does_ have the power to overturn the other judge.
The parent set a poor example by leaving the courtroom, but I don’t know that I wouldn’t have done the same given the circumstances. We are talking about the welfare of a depressed child.
Of course the child shouldn’t have kicked the door, but I don’t expect an eleven year old, especially one with ADHD, to have the impulse control of an adult or even an older adolescent.
This is a terrible example of officiousness. It is the tail wagging the dog.
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### Author:  [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)
#### Post date: [March 17, 2005, 11:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-party-is-wrong-the-judge-or-parents/294967/3 "2005-03-17T11:33:40Z")
> [@](#):
>
> So, who’s pitworthy?
Depends on how close the story is to the facts.
If\* the reality is that an ADHD kid was sentenced to group home treatment (in disregard of the law, if the parents are to be believed\*), then the school administration and first trial judge should all lose their jobs for overreacting and subjecting the kid to unnecessary trauma.
On the other hand, there are subtle signs that the kid has a lot more issues than just ADHD and the incident (in which we see only the parents’ perspective) may have been the culmination of a long line of incidents and may or may not have happened the way that _they_ reported it.
In that case, perhaps no one need be pitted, although I wonder if the parents might be enabling some of the behaviors.
Just off hand, I suspect that the full and complete story might lead us to a rather more complex tale in whch good people are simply being led into conflict by their own perceptions of the best course of action.
- According to the parents–but not independently researched by the reporter–turning in an unloaded BB gun at its first turning up should have exempted the kid from any accusation of impropriety.
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### Author:  [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)
#### Post date: [March 17, 2005, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-party-is-wrong-the-judge-or-parents/294967/4 "2005-03-17T16:22:05Z")
The school administrator’s decision is crazy, but it’s understandabled in the context of a zero-tolerance law, so the real fault is that of the law-makers. They need an exception such as, “If a student finds he has possession of an illegal weapon through no fault of his own, and the student without delay reports the possession and hands over the weapon to a school teacher or school administrator, the penalty for possession shall not apply to the student.”
Otherwise, one student could get another student into trouble by sticking a weapon in his book bag or locker.
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### Author:  [@KellyM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KellyM)
#### Post date: [March 17, 2005, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-party-is-wrong-the-judge-or-parents/294967/5 "2005-03-17T16:43:21Z")
This child may very well be the victim of a corporate welfare program.
A great many group homes and other such operations that provide “services” to “troubled teens” and so on are little more than corporate welfare recipients making money off the government (who pays for these “services”). As such, they put great pressure on government to increase the number of people required to receive such services and keep them in them as long as possible.
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### Author:  [@lee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lee)
#### Post date: [March 17, 2005, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-party-is-wrong-the-judge-or-parents/294967/6 "2005-03-17T16:49:58Z")
No, it is not understandable. Not even a little bit.
A child found something that should not have been in his posession and went to an authority to report it. He did not threaten anyone. No one was endangered and no one was actually harmed. If the authority knew that the law would punish this child, perhaps by removing him from his home, for nothing more than finding and reproting an unloaded psuedo-weapon, then to report the child is wrong. Sometimes in the face of unjust laws you have a moral obligation to not comply with them. It certainly is not fair that a law would place an administrator in this position, but better the administrator than a child in his care.
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### Author:  [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)
#### Post date: [March 17, 2005, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-party-is-wrong-the-judge-or-parents/294967/7 "2005-03-17T16:59:54Z")
**Giles** , in the story (as originally linked), the parents claimed that the law explicitly sets out the extenuating circumstances that you describe and that the school and court ignored that point.
**lee** , it is possible that you are correct, but I still see several clues that we are not getting the whole story. First, the story notes that the child has had a series of run-ins at school, so this is not merely some robotic administrator sending a kid away on a supid zero-tolerance rule. (Of course, it _could_ be an adminstrator deciding to abuse a rule to get rid of a “problem” child, _but we still have seen only one side of this story_.) Then, the door kicking and screaming suggest to me an issue that goes beyond “simple” ADHD. (I am speaking as the parent of a screaming, door-kicking, ADHD child.)
Clearly, this _might_ be an example of an abusive or a mindless system. They certainly exist. However, I would want to see more information before I began hurling darts as the persons involved.
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### Author:  [@lee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lee)
#### Post date: [March 17, 2005, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-party-is-wrong-the-judge-or-parents/294967/8 "2005-03-17T17:23:08Z")
> [@tomndebb](#):
>
> Clearly, this _might_ be an example of an abusive or a mindless system. They certainly exist. However, I would want to see more information before I began hurling darts as the persons involved.
[The previous story](http://www.journalnow.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=WSJ%2FMGArticle%2FWSJ_BasicArticle&c=MGArticle&cid=1031781043376&path=&s=) on this leads me to believe that this particular administrator had it in for this kid. This looks like it was an abuse of the law, not mindless enforcement.
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### Author:  [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)
#### Post date: [March 17, 2005, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-party-is-wrong-the-judge-or-parents/294967/9 "2005-03-17T17:23:14Z")
I agree that there may be a history of problem behaviour. However, it is wrong to use this incident to punish the child, because this incident is not an example of problem behaviour. How can you expect the poor kid to learn the difference between right and wrong if they get such a serious punishment for doing the right thing?
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### Author:  [@lee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lee)
#### Post date: [March 17, 2005, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-party-is-wrong-the-judge-or-parents/294967/10 "2005-03-17T17:27:56Z")
I don’t think the officials involved want to help the child, I think they want to get rid of him and punish the parents for trying to get him labeled as ADHD and for trying to get him special education that is required by law.
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### Author:  [@Abbie\_Carmichael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Abbie_Carmichael)
#### Post date: [March 17, 2005, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-party-is-wrong-the-judge-or-parents/294967/11 "2005-03-17T17:38:43Z")
B, totally.
_That’ll_ teach him to do the right thing …