# Which philosophers, both classical and modern, still speak to our times? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 24, 2013, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-philosophers-both-classical-and-modern-still-speak-to-our-times/674701 "2013-11-24T20:12:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Subterraneanus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Subterraneanus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Subterraneanus)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2013, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-philosophers-both-classical-and-modern-still-speak-to-our-times/674701/21 "2013-11-25T19:21:44Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > Thank you for continuing the fight against ignorance. Apropos nothing, I understand that the book was Russell’s bread and butter for many years. > > What book(s) on the history of philosophy (or history of thought, depending) would you recommend? IMHO, throwing in a little local color and even expressing your views are good things, provided you impart an understanding of the material and therefore leave scope for reader disagreement. At least in introductory works. Russell took one idea–that philosophy is nothing but the conceptual analysis of logical content in Fregean terms–and then evaluates the history of philosophy according to how well he thinks its ideas approximate this conception, without articulating any real understanding of the ideas themselves. The book is one long advertisement for logical positivism. By mid-century, logical positivism as a complete bust, itself a vestige of religious thinking–in the form of the mythos of the logos. One possibility is to spend a lot of time with the _Encyclopedia of Philosophy_. Buy a set, if you can. You can approach it any way you want: thematically, historically, haphazardly. Think of it as a philosophic library in itself, through which you can wander in any fashion you choose. The encyclopedia format makes cross-referencing useful and fun. Further, the articles are written by many contributors, not just one. You get scope, depth and diversity of ideas. ---
**Author:** ![Subterraneanus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Subterraneanus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Subterraneanus)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2013, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-philosophers-both-classical-and-modern-still-speak-to-our-times/674701/22 "2013-11-25T19:24:00Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Meh. He’s really only relevant because he’s so quotable. To any Nietzsche quote, my usual first and second reactions, and not mine alone, I’m sure, are: > > 1. Wow! :eek: > > 2. WTF?! 😕 As I said, he’s rarely understood. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2013, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-philosophers-both-classical-and-modern-still-speak-to-our-times/674701/23 "2013-11-25T19:27:32Z")
> [@Subterraneanus](#): > > One possibility is to spend a lot of time with the _Encyclopedia of Philosophy_. I’m thinking there is probably more than one by that name. Which are you recommending? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2013, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-philosophers-both-classical-and-modern-still-speak-to-our-times/674701/24 "2013-11-25T19:28:58Z")
> [@Subterraneanus](#): > > As I said, he’s rarely understood. Do **you** understand him? E.g., what exactly does he mean by “will to power” – power over others, or power to get things done, or something else entirely? ---
**Author:** ![Subterraneanus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Subterraneanus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Subterraneanus)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2013, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-philosophers-both-classical-and-modern-still-speak-to-our-times/674701/25 "2013-11-25T19:34:39Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > I’m thinking there is probably more than one by that name. Which are you recommending? This is the most recent incarnation: [Amazon.com: Encyclopedia Of Philosophy (10 Volume Set): 9780028657806: Borchert, Donald M.: Books](http://www.amazon.com/Encyclopedia-Of-Philosophy-Volume-Set/dp/0028657802) There’s also the Stanford encyclopedia: [http://plato.stanford.edu/](http://plato.stanford.edu/) ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2013, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-philosophers-both-classical-and-modern-still-speak-to-our-times/674701/26 "2013-11-25T19:37:45Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > What book(s) on the history of philosophy (or history of thought, depending) would you recommend? > [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Can you recommend a better? I too would be interested in hearing our philosopher Dopers’ recommendations for good books on philosophy. It’s been a long time since I read it, but Will Durant’s [The Story of Philosophy](http://www.amazon.com/The-Story-Philosophy-Opinions-Philosophers/dp/0671739166) seems pretty good, albeit incomplete and not modern. [Sophie’s World](http://www.amazon.com/Sophies-World-Jostein-Gaarder-ebook/dp/B00699SDR8/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1385407823&sr=1-1&keywords=sophie%27s+world) is an attempt to put philosophy and its history into the form of a novel and make it accessible to younger readers. I found it interesting, but I’d be interested in hearing a professional philosopher’s opinion. The Teaching Company (The Great Courses) and The Modern Scholar both have some good lecture series on philosophy (some general, some more specific). ---
**Author:** ![Subterraneanus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Subterraneanus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Subterraneanus)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2013, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-philosophers-both-classical-and-modern-still-speak-to-our-times/674701/27 "2013-11-25T19:43:29Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Do **you** understand him? E.g., what exactly does he mean by “will to power” – power over others, or power to get things done, or something else entirely? All of the above. Every event is a will to power. Life is a will to power of its own. Human life is the life of a linguistic herd animal that is distinguished ultimately not by its “rationality,” but by its aesthetic capacity–principally, to create culture and its values. The flourishing of human power is the flourishing of culture. The norms of “rationality” are but expressions of value preference. ---
**Author:** ![davidmich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e56c9b/32.png) [@davidmich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidmich)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2013, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-philosophers-both-classical-and-modern-still-speak-to-our-times/674701/28 "2013-11-25T19:48:53Z")
“Aristotle did not “systematize formal logic,” as if logic is one thing. There are many systems of logic” I’d be interested to know how many (official ones) there are and a comprehensive guide to all of them. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2013, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-philosophers-both-classical-and-modern-still-speak-to-our-times/674701/29 "2013-11-25T19:52:14Z")
> [@Subterraneanus](#): > > All of the above. Every event is a will to power. Life is a will to power of its own. Human life is the life of a linguistic herd animal that is distinguished ultimately not by its “rationality,” but by its aesthetic capacity–principally, to create culture and its values. The flourishing of human power is the flourishing of culture. The norms of “rationality” are but expressions of value preference. How is any form of power an **aesthetic** matter?! The artist’s power to create is, certainly, but I can think of no other. E.g., the engineer’s power to create is not. ---
**Author:** ![Subterraneanus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Subterraneanus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Subterraneanus)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2013, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-philosophers-both-classical-and-modern-still-speak-to-our-times/674701/30 "2013-11-25T19:57:45Z")
Wiki is really not a bad place to start: [Logic - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logic) Flawed in several ways, but still worth reading: [http://www.amazon.com/The-Development-Logic-William-Kneale/dp/0198247737](http://www.amazon.com/The-Development-Logic-William-Kneale/dp/0198247737) There is no one comprehensive guide. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2013, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-philosophers-both-classical-and-modern-still-speak-to-our-times/674701/31 "2013-11-25T20:00:16Z")
> [@panache45](#): > > Aristotle taught us how to think . . . Oh, c’mon, it’s not like he was the first philosopher ever. ---
**Author:** ![Subterraneanus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Subterraneanus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Subterraneanus)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2013, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-philosophers-both-classical-and-modern-still-speak-to-our-times/674701/32 "2013-11-25T20:01:07Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > How is any form of power an **aesthetic** matter?! The artist’s power to create is, certainly, but I can think of no other. E.g., the engineer’s power to create is not. Again, aesthetics is the _flourishing_ of human life, and so it is the ultimate expression of human power. It is the flourishing of human life because it is the sublimation of human suffering and struggle. Yes, Freud gets this idea from Nietzsche. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2013, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-philosophers-both-classical-and-modern-still-speak-to-our-times/674701/33 "2013-11-25T20:18:47Z")
> [@Subterraneanus](#): > > By mid-century, logical positivism as a complete bust, itself a vestige of religious thinking–in the form of the mythos of the logos. If logical positivism is out – and I’m pretty sure deconstructionism is too – and who even says the word “existentialism” any more? – then, what’s in? ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2013, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-philosophers-both-classical-and-modern-still-speak-to-our-times/674701/34 "2013-11-25T21:04:25Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Oh, c’mon, it’s not like he was the first philosopher ever. Oh, c’mon yourself, rarely does the “first ever” of anything wind up at the top. Who was the first composer? Who was the first author? Who was the first teacher? Who was the first doctor? Who was the first architect? I can’t think of any “greatest” who was the first in his field . . . unless it’s some narrow specialty or someone very recent. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2013, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-philosophers-both-classical-and-modern-still-speak-to-our-times/674701/35 "2013-11-25T21:26:21Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > If logical positivism is out – and I’m pretty sure deconstructionism is too – and who even says the word “existentialism” any more? – then, what’s in? In literary circles “object-oriented ontology” is hot, although it seems like complete nonsense to me. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2013, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-philosophers-both-classical-and-modern-still-speak-to-our-times/674701/36 "2013-11-25T22:00:39Z")
> [@panache45](#): > > Oh, c’mon yourself, rarely does the “first ever” of anything wind up at the top. Well, I think if you asked most college-educated people to name the philosopher who first “taught us to think,” the first name to mind would be Socrates or Plato, not Aristotle. (A philosophy major might give a different answer.) ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2013, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-philosophers-both-classical-and-modern-still-speak-to-our-times/674701/37 "2013-11-25T23:45:04Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Well, I think if you asked most college-educated people to name the philosopher who first “taught us to think,” the first name to mind would be Socrates or Plato, not Aristotle. (A philosophy major might give a different answer.) Don’t confuse “first” with “best.” ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2013, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-philosophers-both-classical-and-modern-still-speak-to-our-times/674701/38 "2013-11-26T01:36:30Z")
> [@Subterraneanus](#): > > . . . Descartes’ substance dualism is not a position anyone takes seriously anymore, a few threads on message boards notwithstanding. . . . No, but generalized Cartesian Doubt is still a very relevant matter, as seen, for instance, in the form of “Last Thursday-ism.” (“The universe was created last Thursday, including all of our – artificial – memories of previous times.” Earlier seen in Gosse’s “Omphalos” hypothesis.) It’s a great koan, along with the tree falling in the forest or God creating a weight he can’t lift. “How do we know this isn’t all a dream?” Descartes’ answer sucks, but the question is brilliant. ETA: > [@](#): > > Karl Popper did not help give us modern science. He is wholly overrated by non-philosophers. I’ll politely disagree. (Perhaps he is wholly underrated by philosophy professors?) ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2013, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-philosophers-both-classical-and-modern-still-speak-to-our-times/674701/39 "2013-11-26T14:51:59Z")
> [@panache45](#): > > Don’t confuse “first” with “best.” [shrug] No one ever speaks of the “Aristotelian Method.” ---
**Author:** ![CJJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecc23a/32.png) [@CJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CJJ)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2013, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-philosophers-both-classical-and-modern-still-speak-to-our-times/674701/40 "2013-11-26T16:17:15Z")
> [@Subterraneanus](#): > > Again, aesthetics is the _flourishing_ of human life, and so it is the ultimate expression of human power. It is the flourishing of human life because it is the sublimation of human suffering and struggle. Yes, Freud gets this idea from Nietzsche. IANAP, but this, to me, is why Nietzsche is so important not just in philosophy but for the whole post-modern era. IMO he pretty much de-throned rationalism as a singular guiding principle of ethics, society, culture, etc. Agree or disagree, he is a major figure worth at least approaching in order to understand our post-modern world. As for books on the current “relevance” of various philosophers, I’d recommend Luc Ferry’s [A Breif History of Thought](http://www.amazon.com/Brief-History-Thought-Philosophical-Living/dp/0062074245/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1385482397&sr=1-1&keywords=A+history+of+thought). Like **njtt** , I think all philosophers have something to contribute, but this is a good summary mainly because it focuses more on movements than individual philosphers (with the exception of Nietzsche) and thus allows a reader to find ideas/philosophers they may want to explore more deeply. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-philosophers-both-classical-and-modern-still-speak-to-our-times/674701.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-philosophers-both-classical-and-modern-still-speak-to-our-times/674701.md?page=3)