# Which philosophers, both classical and modern, still speak to our times? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 24, 2013, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-philosophers-both-classical-and-modern-still-speak-to-our-times/674701 "2013-11-24T20:12:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Kable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kable)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2013, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-philosophers-both-classical-and-modern-still-speak-to-our-times/674701/61 "2013-12-07T21:48:21Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > His victory was so complete that he has become irrelevant. Who wants to read books inveighing against things that no longer exist? Christians no longer exist? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2013, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-philosophers-both-classical-and-modern-still-speak-to-our-times/674701/62 "2013-12-07T23:05:58Z")
> [@Kable](#): > > Christians no longer exist? The Church’s hegemony no longer exists. ---
**Author:** ![Dostoyevsky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b5a626/32.png) [@Dostoyevsky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dostoyevsky)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2013, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-philosophers-both-classical-and-modern-still-speak-to-our-times/674701/63 "2013-12-07T23:53:28Z")
Quick book recommendations: I don’t like books that treat all of philosophy as just about one thing, so here’s books that do justice to the different categories of philosophy: _Contemporary Political Philosophy: An Introduction_ by Will Kymlicka _The Moral Philosophers: An Introduction to Ethics_ by Richard Noram _Epistemology: An Anthology_ by (Editors) Ernest Sosa and Jaegwon Kim _Philosophy of Language: A Contemporary Introduction_ by William Lycan _Philosophy of Religion: An Anthology_ by Louis P. Pojman and Michael Rea (This book is so good that it will probably shake your beliefs at some point regardless of what they are.) Theories of Truth: A Critical Introduction by Richard L. Kirckham (This book is a combination of logic, possible, worlds, and truth projects. Don’t try reading the second half unless you have a degree in phil. but the first half is written for undergraduates so anyone here should be able to get through that part.) Be wary of philosophy books that are generic enough to announce, “All the major philosophers about every major philosophic topic are in this single book!” The most famous of these silly tomes is Bertrand’s Russell’s _The History of Western Philosophy_, and those in the know scoff at how embarrassingly ambitious it is. Philosophy has specialists within different areas for a reason. Also, don’t be put off by titles with “Introduction” in them, as these are academic introductions and not popular introductions. Unless you have a degree in phil. you’ll still learn a lot that you didn’t know. Back to studying… ---
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2013, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-philosophers-both-classical-and-modern-still-speak-to-our-times/674701/64 "2013-12-07T23:53:49Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Yes, habitually. OK, that was the first really clever response in the thread. Thanks. > [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > As it happens, a number of Buddhist texts quote the Buddha directly. In college I studied [_Buddhism in Translation_](http://www.amazon.com/Buddhism-Translations-Henry-Clark-Warren/dp/159605302X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1386220746&sr=8-1&keywords=buddhism+in+translations) which gives some of the original source material. > > \ > > This wouldn’t be a bad place to start for those interested: [http://www.religioustolerance.org/buddhism.htm](http://www.religioustolerance.org/buddhism.htm) > I always find The Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy interesting or at least diverting: [Search (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy)](http://plato.stanford.edu/search/searcher.py?query=buddhism) Another good resource is [http://www.buddhanet.net/](http://www.buddhanet.net/) > [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > We don’t speak anymore of natural philosophers, ever since they branched off, specialized and called themselves scientists. Likewise I doubt whether philosophers will have much to say about consciousness in 400 years. And that was the first really \*pertinent \*response to the thread. Thanks to you, also. ---
**Author:** ![Dostoyevsky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b5a626/32.png) [@Dostoyevsky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dostoyevsky)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2013, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-philosophers-both-classical-and-modern-still-speak-to-our-times/674701/65 "2013-12-08T00:03:47Z")
sorry for the tiepoes in my above list of books… ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Kable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kable)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2013, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-philosophers-both-classical-and-modern-still-speak-to-our-times/674701/66 "2013-12-08T00:23:09Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > The Church’s hegemony no longer exists. Heck you could credit Martin Luther for that, and there are still plenty of voter who think the Bible is the word of God. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2013, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-philosophers-both-classical-and-modern-still-speak-to-our-times/674701/67 "2013-12-08T00:50:32Z")
> [@Kable](#): > > Heck you could credit Martin Luther for that, and there are still plenty of voter who think the Bible is the word of God. But in Voltaire’s day, the Church still had censorship power over all books printed in Catholic countries, sacrilege and heresy were actual crimes, the Inquisition still had the power to arrest, torture, try and burn people, etc., etc. ---
**Author:** ![Kable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kable)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2013, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-philosophers-both-classical-and-modern-still-speak-to-our-times/674701/68 "2013-12-08T01:17:56Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > But in Voltaire’s day, the Church still had censorship power over all books printed in Catholic countries, sacrilege and heresy were actual crimes, the Inquisition still had the power to arrest, torture, try and burn people, etc., etc. In our day the churches still sway public opinion thus having power to prevent assisted suicide so terminally ill people are forced to endure protracted, painful and undignified deaths. Also, unlike a lot of philosophers listed, Voltaire is an actual pleasure to read. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2013, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-philosophers-both-classical-and-modern-still-speak-to-our-times/674701/69 "2013-12-08T01:33:23Z")
> [@Kable](#): > > Also, unlike a lot of philosophers listed, Voltaire is an actual pleasure to read. To me, the question about Voltaire isn’t whether he’s worth reading today, but whether he counts as a philosopher, rather than a writer who wrote on philosophical issues. Did he produce any original ideas, theories, or arguments? Would other philosophers call him a philosopher? ---
**Author:** ![Kable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kable)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2013, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-philosophers-both-classical-and-modern-still-speak-to-our-times/674701/70 "2013-12-08T01:50:14Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > To me, the question about Voltaire isn’t whether he’s worth reading today, but whether he counts as a philosopher, rather than a writer who wrote on philosophical issues. I couldn’t tell you exactly what was original to him or not. He wrote the “Philosophic Dictionary,” which was a pretty good read, as was everything else he wrote that I’ve come across. > [@](#): > > Did he produce any original ideas, theories, or arguments? Would other philosophers call him a philosopher? Will Durant thought he was and had a full chapter on him in his “Story of Philosophy.” Nietzsche talked about him a lot in his books, and I think Schopenhauer maybe did too. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2013, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-philosophers-both-classical-and-modern-still-speak-to-our-times/674701/71 "2013-12-08T02:04:43Z")
> [@Kable](#): > > Will Durant thought he was and had a full chapter on him in his “Story of Philosophy.” Nietzsche talked about him a lot in his books, and I think Schopenhauer maybe did too. Fair enough, then. At any rate, his most famous work, _Candide_, remains pretty widely read and appreciated, judging by the number of reader reviews at Amazon. ---
**Author:** ![Kable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kable)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2013, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-philosophers-both-classical-and-modern-still-speak-to-our-times/674701/72 "2013-12-08T02:15:51Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > Fair enough, then. At any rate, his most famous work, _Candide_, remains pretty widely read and appreciated, judging by the number of reader reviews at Amazon. I’d recommend the “Portable Voltaire” it has “Candide” which is not only insightful but is literally laugh out loud funny. In addition to “Candide” “The Portable Voltaire” has a lot of his other works in full, as well as a large portion of “They Philosophic Dictionary.” ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2013, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-philosophers-both-classical-and-modern-still-speak-to-our-times/674701/73 "2013-12-08T02:23:39Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > Fair enough, then. At any rate, his most famous work, _Candide_, remains pretty widely read and appreciated, judging by the number of reader reviews at Amazon. Pangloss = Leibniz, BTW. ---
**Author:** ![Dostoyevsky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b5a626/32.png) [@Dostoyevsky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dostoyevsky)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2013, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-philosophers-both-classical-and-modern-still-speak-to-our-times/674701/74 "2013-12-08T02:57:52Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > Would other philosophers call him a philosopher? Most modern philosophers deny him the title. [Cite.](http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/voltaire) > [@](#): > > At the center of his work was a new conception of philosophy and the philosopher that in several crucial respects influenced the modern concept of each. Yet in other ways Voltaire was not a philosopher at all in the modern sense of the term. ETA: he gets a mixed reception at The Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy. ---
**Author:** ![Kable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kable)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2013, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-philosophers-both-classical-and-modern-still-speak-to-our-times/674701/75 "2013-12-08T03:01:36Z")
> [@Dostoyevsky](#): > > Most modern philosophers deny him the title. Them stiffs must be jealous. ---
**Author:** ![Dostoyevsky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b5a626/32.png) [@Dostoyevsky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dostoyevsky)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2013, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-philosophers-both-classical-and-modern-still-speak-to-our-times/674701/76 "2013-12-08T03:09:44Z")
> [@Kable](#): > > Them stiffs must be jealous. They must also be jealous of Nietzsche, because a growing number deny him the title as well. Complaining in fiction \< deriving valid inferences from propositional logic. (You needn’t ask about Freud, Darwin, Rand, and the Founding Fathers. Though, Rand comes closest.) ---
**Author:** ![Kable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kable)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2013, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-philosophers-both-classical-and-modern-still-speak-to-our-times/674701/77 "2013-12-08T03:29:04Z")
> [@Dostoyevsky](#): > > They must also be jealous of Nietzsche, because a growing number deny him the title as well. Could easily be, philosophers are a jealous lot. ---
**Author:** ![Kable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kable)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2013, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-philosophers-both-classical-and-modern-still-speak-to-our-times/674701/78 "2013-12-08T03:32:14Z")
Speaking of Candide here it is free on audio: [![]( " - YouTube") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kcxxrXUsYMg) Decide for yourself. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2013, 7:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-philosophers-both-classical-and-modern-still-speak-to-our-times/674701/79 "2013-12-08T07:45:15Z")
Candide is about as philosophical as a George Carlin monologue. Both are pretty funny though. I can’t judge Voltaire’s philosophical works as I have not read them. (That said, I’m looking forward to reading Stanford’s treatment and methinks that Voltaire was at least worthy of a mention in this thread.) Dostoyevsky: Great posts. I’ve added a number of your recommendations to my Amazon wish list. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2013, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-philosophers-both-classical-and-modern-still-speak-to-our-times/674701/80 "2013-12-08T18:34:48Z")
> [@Kable](#): > > Could easily be, philosophers are a jealous lot. Especially Newton and Leibniz. They had an embarrassing row over who discovered calculus first. It lasted for years. (By the standards of the day Newton was as much a “philosopher” as Leibniz.) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-philosophers-both-classical-and-modern-still-speak-to-our-times/674701.md?page=3)