# Which religions favor women? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 6, 2012, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-religions-favor-women/627372 "2012-07-06T00:56:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 7\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2012, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-religions-favor-women/627372/61 "2012-07-11T21:03:28Z")
> [@monavis](#): > > I read once years ago that the godesses were worshipped before Gods came in to power. Archaeologists have found many small statues fom that time of female gods. An excellent study of the subject is _The Chalice and the Blade_ by Riane Eisler (a refugee from Nazism). It’s a controversial field because it gets attributed to “matriarchy”[sup]_[by whom?]_[/sup] and then gets the counter-argument that there is no evidence of any human society having been a matriarchy. Eisler’s take gets the subject out of that intellectual quagmire by showing how “matriarchy” was never the point of the pre-patriarchal era of the Goddess. Rather, it was a _partnership society_ as opposed to a _dominator society_. The concept of matriarchy simply replaces one dominator with another (to use the Latin term, a _dominatrix_—literally female dominator. How you feel about it in that light? :D) Eisler’s reading of Goddess prehistory removed it from any kind of domination and situated it in the egalitarian concept of partnership society. She presents archæological evidence for this from Minoan Crete, which was one of the last survivors of prehistoric Goddess egalitarianism. There were no huge differences in real estate value between the richest and the poorest residents. Moreover, the homes and buildings of the wealthy and powerful were mixed up in the same neighborhoods with the homes of the middle-income and poor. In contrast to the heavy socioeconomic disparity, stratification, and hierarchy evident in the city planning of authoritarian/warlike/patriarchal societies. (There were also no fortification walls in Minoan Crete, although perhaps it’s been argued that the Minoan Navy was powerful enough to make them unnecessary. I dunno.) Eisler coined the term _gylany_ (from Greek _gyne_ ‘woman’, _lyein_ and _lyo_ ‘to solve, resolve; to dissolve, set free’, _andros_ ‘man’) for the partnership society she envisions in which men and women are really equal and neither dominates over the other. She says it’s possible for humans because we already accomplished it in prehistory. Reclaiming Witchcraft, which I’m part of, is inspired in part by this gylanic theory and functions on it in praxis. I’ve seen it work. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2012, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-religions-favor-women/627372/62 "2012-07-11T21:12:04Z")
Rather, the Greek etymon for ‘man’ is _anēr_. Sorry for repeating this error. I just missed the edit window. ---
**Author:** ![Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d9b06d/32.png) [@Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boozahol_Squid_P.I)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2012, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-religions-favor-women/627372/63 "2012-07-11T22:18:59Z")
> [@Johanna](#): > > Rather, the Greek etymon for ‘man’ is _anēr_. Sorry for repeating this error. I just missed the edit window. Both andros and aner are equally translatable as ‘man’, although the connotation of the latter is somewhat more masculine. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2012, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-religions-favor-women/627372/64 "2012-07-12T13:23:21Z")
> [@Johanna](#): > > She presents archæological evidence for this from Minoan Crete, which was one of the last survivors of prehistoric Goddess egalitarianism. There were no huge differences in real estate value between the richest and the poorest residents. Moreover, the homes and buildings of the wealthy and powerful were mixed up in the same neighborhoods with the homes of the middle-income and poor. In contrast to the heavy socioeconomic disparity, stratification, and hierarchy evident in the city planning of authoritarian/warlike/patriarchal societies. (There were also no fortification walls in Minoan Crete, although perhaps it’s been argued that the Minoan Navy was powerful enough to make them unnecessary. I dunno.) I didn’t know that about Crete. All you read about is the Palace, so I always assumed stratification. The Indus Valley Civilisation is egalitarian like this as well, as was the early Turkish settlements like Çatalhöyük. I know the latter also has “goddess” [statues](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seated_Woman_of_%C3%87atalh%C3%B6y%C3%BCk), and of course the former has its “d[ancing girl](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Dancing_Girl_of_Mohenjo-daro.jpg)” and lots of other female [figurines](http://www.harappa.com/figurines/slideindex.html). ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2012, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-religions-favor-women/627372/65 "2012-07-12T13:59:39Z")
**WhyNot** —thanks for the information. I avoid witch wars. If I see one coming, I head the other way. Sorry you didn’t see the best out of my peeps wherever you’re located. All I know is, in the mid-Atlantic region, the Reclaiming folks are awesome. **MrDibble** —yeah, I love all that prehistoric stuff. Göbekli Tepe, a few hundred miles east of Çatalhöyük, is a Mesolithic site with the earliest evidence of both organized religion and grain cultivation, which it seems went together. Its archæology over its 3,500 years of occupancy literally bridges the Paleolithic and Neolithic. It pushes the origins of religion and agriculture back a couple thousand years than thought earlier. The iconography of the Anatolian Mother Goddess, a woman flanked with lions, holding a frame drum, is found beginning at Göbekli Tepe, also found at Çatalhöyük, historically attested by the Hittites, and adopted by the classical Greeks and Romans as Cybele, is consistent from the Mesolithic right through to the fall of Roman Paganism. She continued as Mary, but they took away her lions and drum. She was originally the Goddess of mountains, wild places, wild beasts. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2012, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-religions-favor-women/627372/66 "2012-07-12T16:01:02Z")
> [@Johanna](#): > > **WhyNot** —thanks for the information. I avoid witch wars. If I see one coming, I head the other way. Sorry you didn’t see the best out of my peeps wherever you’re located. All I know is, in the mid-Atlantic region, the Reclaiming folks are awesome. > > **MrDibble** —yeah, I love all that prehistoric stuff. Göbekli Tepe, a few hundred miles east of Çatalhöyük, is a Mesolithic site with the earliest evidence of both organized religion and grain cultivation, which it seems went together. Its archæology over its 3,500 years of occupancy literally bridges the Paleolithic and Neolithic. It pushes the origins of religion and agriculture back a couple thousand years than thought earlier. The iconography of the Anatolian Mother Goddess, a woman flanked with lions, holding a frame drum, is found beginning at Göbekli Tepe, also found at Çatalhöyük, historically attested by the Hittites, and adopted by the classical Greeks and Romans as Cybele, is consistent from the Mesolithic right through to the fall of Roman Paganism. She continued as Mary, but they took away her lions and drum. She was originally the Goddess of mountains, wild places, wild beasts. I dunno if Göbekli Tepe is good evidence for this theory. I had occasion to read a recent paper (it’s available in PDF form - Göbekli Tepe – the Stone Age Sanctuaries. New results of ongoing excavations with a special focus on sculptures and high reliefs - from Documenta Praehistorica XXXVII (2010) at p. 246: > [@](#): > > At Göbekli Tepe, distinctly feminine motifs are lacking > from both the animal and human images. There > is a single exception – a naked woman engraved on > a stone slab placed between the so-called lions’ pillars > (Schmidt 2006.235–237, Fig. 104) (Fig. 13). But > it seems clear that this depiction is not part of the > original decoration, but more probably belongs to a > group of engravings which can be classified as graffiti > (comp. pillar 10: Schmidt 2000.23, Fig. 10b). You can see a picture of this image in the paper, and why it is described as “grafitti”. It is crudely scratched, quite different in style to the other icons at the site (all, insofar as can be identified, male). This isn’t to say that the archaeology disproves that their society was egalitarian (relatively). At nearby sites, as the authors explain, clay figurines are equally male and female: > [@](#): > > In > Nevalı Çori, in contrast, of the clay figurines that > have been found nowhere else in such abundance > – 700 in number – over 90% are anthropomorphic > objects, and male and female figures occur in equal > numbers (Morsch 2002). The complete absence of > clay figurines at Göbekli Tepe is most remarkable. > This surely reflects the different functions of the ritual > buildings at each location: while the buildings > of Göbekli Tepe have a possible connection with burial > customs, at Nevalı Çori, it is possible to examine > a village settlement and everyday life. The use of > clay as the material for the male and female figures > found here is not insignificant. The smaller stone figures > that were also discovered exhibit a completely > different and much richer iconographic repertoire > which repeats the stock of motifs associated with the > large stone sculptures and reliefs at Göbekli Tepe. The notion that this site represents a continuity of a single goddess iconography over thousands of years is highly speculative at best. The problem here is that the evidence is enegmatic. Firm conclusions should not be drawn from it. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2012, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-religions-favor-women/627372/67 "2012-07-12T18:05:12Z")
The identical goddess Cybele is attested from Hittite times until the end of Roman Paganism. That’s over 2,000 years of documentation. As for pre-literate cultures: The woman flanked by lions was found at Çatalhöyük predating the Hittites by some 5,000 years. Readers are invited to draw their own conclusions. Thanks for citing the examples from Nevalı Çori. Good call. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-religions-favor-women/627372.md?page=3)