# Which side takes defeat harder? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [January 2, 2019, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-side-takes-defeat-harder/827119 "2019-01-02T23:57:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2019, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-side-takes-defeat-harder/827119/61 "2019-01-04T18:46:24Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Well, for starters, Republicans absolutely hated it when Obama passed Gingrich’s health care plan. Did you see the examples of “When Obama did things that conservatives like” and they did NOT oppose him? Do you accept those examples as refutations of your point? ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2019, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-side-takes-defeat-harder/827119/62 "2019-01-04T19:04:54Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Democrats tend to be younger, and younger people tend to go out more than older people. > > If you’re implying anything about violence, the [statistics](https://qz.com/1182778/the-far-right-was-responsible-for-the-majority-of-extremist-killings-in-2017/) show that right-wing violence kills far more people in America than left-wing violence, but that might not be what you’re saying. ADL? Better source please. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2019, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-side-takes-defeat-harder/827119/63 "2019-01-04T19:07:10Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I’m sure these fantasy Democrats have done all kind of terrible and laughable things. I stand with you against these apparitions of evil, and together maybe we can defeat them! It is my fantasy that Dems have melted down over Obama policies Trump continued? Perhaps you should consume media outside of your bubble. I think I may have hit on the genesis of your problem. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2019, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-side-takes-defeat-harder/827119/64 "2019-01-04T19:15:26Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Did you see the examples of “When Obama did things that conservatives like” and they did NOT oppose him? Do you accept those examples as refutations of your point? I believe it was early spring of last year, an extraordinarily sunny and mild day, when Trump said “Good morning”. This, then, refutes the notion that Trump lies. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2019, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-side-takes-defeat-harder/827119/65 "2019-01-04T19:41:34Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > I believe it was early spring of last year, an extraordinarily sunny and mild day, when Trump said “Good morning”. This, then, refutes the notion that Trump lies. It would probably refute the notion that “Trump absolutely never says anything true”, just like examples of the GOP supporting some of Obama’s accomplishments would refute the notion that “they still opposed him, because it was absolutely essential that he never be allowed to accomplish anything.” ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2019, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-side-takes-defeat-harder/827119/66 "2019-01-04T19:48:59Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > the notion that “Trump absolutely never says anything true” Where do you get that? The “notion”, well-supported by the evidence by the way, is that he absolutely never says anything _you can rely on_ to be true, or to be self-consistent, or that he will hold himself accountable for. Sure, sometimes he does state a fact in passing, but not because he \*\*knows \*\*it’s a fact, or cares one whit if is or not. ---
**Author:** ![JB99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/439d5e/32.png) [@JB99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JB99)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2019, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-side-takes-defeat-harder/827119/67 "2019-01-05T00:45:55Z")
Yep, and there we go again. No reply, no substance, no thought, no debate. I’m ‘an extremist’ and I must need mental help, so clearly there’s no point in acknowledging or refuting any of my complaints. And next time I’ll be ‘George Soros paid protestor’ or whatever other fantasy du jour you want to conjure in order to dismiss me and my criticism. And then when people finally get so angry and frustrated that they take to the street in protest, you take the moral high ground and say, “Look how violent and crazy they are! Look at their temper tantrum! Why can’t we talk about things rationally?” We can’t have rational discussion because you won’t acknowledge anything we say as legitimate or truthful. So when people get angry and protest, it’s because YOU STILL AREN’T LISTENING and we don’t know how else to get through to you. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2019, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-side-takes-defeat-harder/827119/68 "2019-01-05T01:23:57Z")
> [@JB99](#): > > Yep, and there we go again. No reply, no substance, no thought, no debate. I’m ‘an extremist’ and I must need mental help, so clearly there’s no point in acknowledging or refuting any of my complaints. And next time I’ll be ‘George Soros paid protestor’ or whatever other fantasy du jour you want to conjure in order to dismiss me and my criticism. > > And then when people finally get so angry and frustrated that they take to the street in protest, you take the moral high ground and say, “Look how violent and crazy they are! Look at their temper tantrum! Why can’t we talk about things rationally?” > > We can’t have rational discussion because you won’t acknowledge anything we say as legitimate or truthful. So when people get angry and protest, it’s because YOU STILL AREN’T LISTENING and we don’t know how else to get through to you. First off, not agreeing with you is not the same as not listening. I’ve read every one of your posts in this thread in its entirety, which is about as close to “listening” as I can get in this communication medium. Secondly, your posts come off like unhinged rantings. You don’t provide cites, or evidence, or even specifics. Let’s just take one point: You called President Trump “a uniquely hideous human being”. What did you mean by that? Was it supposed to be a reference to his physical appearance? A claim that he’s the worst person to ever live? What? Is it intended as a literal claim or just some hyperbole to show how really angry you are? ---
**Author:** ![squidfood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a87d85/32.png) [@squidfood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squidfood)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2019, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-side-takes-defeat-harder/827119/69 "2019-01-05T01:30:00Z")
> [@Ashtura](#): > > I don’t know who takes it “harder”, but democrats certainly seem more eager to take to the streets. I distinctly remember this thing called the Tea Party marching by. Maybe they kept to the sidewalks. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2019, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-side-takes-defeat-harder/827119/70 "2019-01-05T01:39:55Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Secondly, your posts come off like unhinged rantings. You don’t provide cites, or evidence, or even specifics. Let’s just take one point: You called President Trump “a uniquely hideous human being”. What did you mean by that? Was it supposed to be a reference to his physical appearance? A claim that he’s the worst person to ever live? What? Is it intended as a literal claim or just some hyperbole to show how really angry you are? You really don’t understand why Trump is considered hideous? He’s ignorant, offensive, unqualified, divisive, corrupt, and quite possibly in bed with one of our main adversaries. He has terrible judgment. (Flynn, Cohen, Manafort) He makes bad appointments (Carson, Devos, Perry, Pruitt) He lies. A lot. He is a bad negotiator, a terrible communicator, and flirts with racism, sexism, and anti-immigrant tendencies. I don’t have time to outline all his deficits, but they’re easily found if you search around a bit. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2019, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-side-takes-defeat-harder/827119/71 "2019-01-05T01:48:54Z")
Republicans didn’t oppose Obama over the bin Laden raid, for the simple reason that they couldn’t. Obama didn’t need to ask Congress for it; he was able, as Commander in Chief, to just do it. So, since they couldn’t oppose him, they instead denied that he did it, or that he deserved any credit for it. EDIT: > [@](#): > > …and flirts with racism, sexism, and anti-immigrant tendencies. If by “flirts with”, you mean that he grabs racism and sexism by the pussy. ---
**Author:** ![JB99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/439d5e/32.png) [@JB99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JB99)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2019, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-side-takes-defeat-harder/827119/72 "2019-01-05T01:57:42Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Secondly, your posts come off like unhinged rantings. You don’t provide cites, or evidence, or even specifics. Let’s just take one point: You called President Trump “a uniquely hideous human being”. What did you mean by that? Was it supposed to be a reference to his physical appearance? A claim that he’s the worst person to ever live? What? Is it intended as a literal claim or just some hyperbole to show how really angry you are? It’s barely hyperbole. But I’m not going to indulge you by writing my multi-volume treatise on all the different reasons Trump is the scum of the Earth. It will suffice to say that Trump is variously cruel, vindictive, abrasive, hateful, astonishingly racist, ignorant on virtually every single topic, narcisstistic, and very likely mentally infirm given that he can barely form coherent sentences, much less logical arguments. Trump’s authoritarianism, unwillingness to acknowledge contrary ideas, demands of personal loyalty, and hateful attacks on the half the people who comprise the nation he is supposed to be leading aren’t just evidence of his incredible callousness and stupidity, but his disrespect for democracy as a concept. This isn’t even touching on his obstruction of justice, nor his inconsistency from day to day (sometimes minute to minute) to the extent that very nearly everything that comes out of his mouth is a lie. All of this has been confirmed _repeatedly_ and examined at length by writers more articulate than I, much of which you can find on this same message board or five seconds worth of Google. If I’m supposed to write you the citations and specifics and evidence of every shitty, hateful, raving, evil thing Trump - and Republicans in general - have ever said and done, the length would be astonishing. Instead, I am going to assume that you are an adult human being who is informed by the media, and that you have not actually been living under a rock for the past two years. But then again, that’s not the point, is it? The POINT is that everything I say just isn’t good enough. It doesn’t matter how specific I am, or what I say, or how I phrase it, or where I say it, or at what volume I say it, because it will never, and I mean, NEVER be good enough for you. If you want to have an adult conversation where you respond to the things I’ve already said, go nuts. Otherwise, I’m done indulging your willfully-ignorant lost-in-the-woods gaslighting bullshit. Try it on someone else. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2019, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-side-takes-defeat-harder/827119/73 "2019-01-05T02:13:36Z")
To be fair, I’ve told you a million times, quit exaggerating. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2019, 12:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-side-takes-defeat-harder/827119/74 "2019-01-05T12:06:41Z")
The number of lies Trump tells has become a topic? How many lies is too many? > [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > It would probably refute the notion that “Trump absolutely never says anything true” … I wonder if you would concede that ‘Not EVERY.SINGLE.SENTENCE is a lie’ would be an overly low bar? I won’t waste a Google right now to get the exact number, but an Internet Fact-checker has found about Seven Thousand Lies in the Presidential tweets. (Yes, 'that’s Thousand with a ‘T.’ Already a record and he’s not quite completed even two years yet. He really is the Greatest Ever. :eek:) And this only includes lies relevant enough for the fact-checkers to fact check. I’m told he cheats when he plays golf, but all those fake mulligans don’t count toward the reported lie total. Nor do his pledges of allegiance to the country he betrays every day. Especially ominous is that the lie frequency is increasing. Early in the term, it was only 7 lies per day or thereabouts. By now he’s averaging about 15 lies per day. What do Trumpists think of all this lying? **Hurricane** , should we start with you? ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2019, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-side-takes-defeat-harder/827119/75 "2019-01-05T14:05:57Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > It would probably refute the notion that “Trump absolutely never says anything true” It’s just proof that even a blind squirrel can find an acorn once in a while. ---
**Author:** ![squidfood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a87d85/32.png) [@squidfood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squidfood)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2019, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-side-takes-defeat-harder/827119/76 "2019-01-05T14:24:53Z")
Plot twist: Trump tweets “I always lie” and all liberals’ heads _literally_ explode. Checkmate. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2019, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-side-takes-defeat-harder/827119/77 "2019-01-05T15:32:28Z")
Well this is interesting. One side wants things better for all Americans and the world. The other side wants to enrich themselves and not give a dam about the future. hmmm. decisions, decisions. Gosh, what ever shall we do? Having Obama elected was a slap on the wrist to Republicans (and in particular, racist assholes). Trumps election was being shot in the face by a 45. So maybe the Democrats do take it a bit harder. ---
**Author:** ![Ancient\_Erudite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb9ed0/32.png) [@Ancient\_Erudite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ancient_Erudite)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2019, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-side-takes-defeat-harder/827119/78 "2019-01-07T02:14:36Z")
Democrats take defeat worse. It’s not all their fault, the media pumps them up generally speaking casting Republicans as the underdogs in Presidential races. If you believe them and their polls, neither Bush or Trump was supposed to win. Yet they did. Underdogs take defeat better. Smug favorites do not. More problematic for Democrats is the Electorial college system is set up, and where the population growth is happening. Did you know Trump won 22 of the top 25 birth rate states? Its true, and this means electoral votes will be shifting red. The states with the highest fertility rate are west of the Mississippi River to the Northern mountain states, which are mostly Republican. Meanwhile, the Northeastern Fertility rates are dropping and that’s a blue wall. Judge for yourself. 20 years from now, it will be harder on Dem’s to get to 270 electoral votes, not easier assuming states say they way they are. > **[List of U.S. states and territories by fertility rate](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_and_territories_by_fertility_rate)** > > This is a list of U.S. states, federal district, and territories by total fertility rate. >  Wake Island has fewer than 300 occupants, mainly related to activities of the United States Air Force, none of whom is considered a permanent resident. All other insular areas under the sovereignty of the United States are uninhabited. ---
**Author:** ![survinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cab0a1/32.png) [@survinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/survinga)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2019, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-side-takes-defeat-harder/827119/79 "2019-01-07T02:41:19Z")
Republicans take defeat harder. When they lose, such as when they were crushed in 2008, they dig in and think of various underhanded schemes in order to win back power. Operation RedMap’s extreme gerrymandering is a great example of this. Also, becoming uniformly opposed to everything that Obama did was an example of a Republican temper tantrum that came from losing. And lately, when they’ve lost some governorships, they will do last-minute bills to strip power from the incoming Democrat governor-elect. The Republican governor in Maine wouldn’t implement the Medicaid expansion even after his side lost on that issue at the ballot box, and after a judge told him to implement it. Republicans take losses harder. When Dems defeat them, they don’t accept it as legitimate. They thinks liberals are un-American. And given that, they have no issue with bending rules and norms to win back power against what they view as an illegitimate, un-American part of the country. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2019, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-side-takes-defeat-harder/827119/80 "2019-01-07T02:51:54Z")
> [@survinga](#): > > … Republicans take losses harder. When Dems defeat them, they don’t accept it as legitimate. … Is the irony if this, in the era of #Resistance and “Not my President” completely lost on you? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-side-takes-defeat-harder/827119.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-side-takes-defeat-harder/827119.md?page=5)