Such as? And you’d need to cite exactly what you’re calling a “meltdown” in such cases. Many Democrats have disagreed with certain policies whether it was Obama or Trump who was promoting them. But that doesn’t mean they’re wrong to be more upset about Trump’s malevolent-idiocy version than about Obama’s reasonable-people-can-disagree version.
Cite that Trump has policies?
I would also add that among Trump’s many, many, many failings, I have never seen - or even heard of - a President who treats the opposing party with such naked contempt. And the frustration is - again - not just with Trump but an entire subculture that feeds the same idea.
Trump is my employee. As are the other government officials. And yet they don’t even make a pretense of caring about my concerns or my needs. I am not being represented by this government. Instead, I am being demonized, vilified, attacked, and dismissed. I spent twenty years in the Army and fought in three wars, and yet Republicans still call me a traitor because… Why? I expect the government to fix our healthcare? I expect people to comport themselves with dignity? I want less gun violence? What - exactly - have I done to deserve the absolute contempt and vitriolic hatred these people display to me?
And even here we see more of the dismissive attitude… HurricaneDitka bickers over the stupidity of Democrats and whether it is proper to call it a “meltdown,” but doesn’t even bother to address any of my actual criticisms.
So if I’m stuck with a government that not only does not represent me or serve my interests, but is actively hostile to me, undermines the rule of law and democracy, and considers me an enemy of the state… For what possible reason would I NOT express my rage against that government and all the neo-fascist retards that enable it.
And before someone starts to mention that the whole “enemy of the state” thing is mere hyperbole, remember that Americans have been literally murdered by fanatics emboldened by this administration. The election is not a matter of “politics” or whose “side” wins. For some people have literally died. Stop treating it as a big joke and at least acknowledge what is happening to us.
You people make jokes about a screaming meltdown, but apparently we have to scream louder because you STILL don’t hear us.
If you want to have a rational debate about healthcare or foreign policy or whatever, fine, we can do that. If you just want to “scream louder” well then … fine … I guess … you can do that too, but it shouldn’t come as some great surprise if regular folks think that reaction is more than a bit unhinged. It certainly doesn’t square with your expectation for “people to comport themselves with dignity”.
JB99,
What, in your view, were your “actual criticisms” that merited a serious response? “Trump is a uniquely hideous human being”? “the election of Trump proved that tens of millions of Americans are more hateful, racist, self-destructive, and ignorant than we ever dreamed”? Or was it “TRUMP FUCKING DESERVES IT”?
And you are STILL looking for reasons to ignore the message. No matter what people do, no matter how they deliver it, it will never be just the way you want it. People are only allowed to protest when it is at the right place, the right time, and the right volume FOR YOU. Do you not realize that the entire point of holding a protest is to get your attention? You ignored literally everything else that I wrote just to pick on the ONE THING that sounds like an inconsistency to you, because of course that completely invalidates everything else I’ve said.
FWIW, in the past two years I have yet to meet even a single conservative who was actually willing to have a rational discussion about policies. All I get is this same kind of snarky chickenshit designed to hurl insults and dismiss the messanger without ACTUALLY acknowledging any of the complaints.
Yes, yes, and yes.
- Trump’s behavior and policies are abhorrent almost beyond measure. His incompetence, incoherence, and absolute contempt for his fellow Americans is practically unprecedented in an elected official.
2). Given the above, our anger is largely fueled by the fact that we cannot comprehend how even one person could vote for such a complete and utter fool. And yet - inexplicably - 61 million people all made the same mistake. The REASON this is so frustrating and traumatic is that we woke up one morning and found that people we trusted and respected and loved were suddenly embracing hate and racism and fascism and we can’t comprehend it. I - personally - have relatives who have absolutely abandoned their morals and have become hateful, vindictive people because of their support for Trump.
3). I say “Trump fucking deserves it” because he does. Here’s the point I am trying to make. If any elected official behaved in the way Trump does, then protest is a rational response to that official’s misbehavior. OP - and many people like him - premise their argument on the idea that people are only mad that “their side lost” when that is not correct.
If a public official behaves badly, they deserve to be protested against. If a public official does not behave badly, they do not deserve protests.
Therefore, people protested Trump because Trump’s behavior and policies deserve to be protested. Fewer people protested Obama, because Obama did nothing to deserve or incite protests.
I can’t emphasize how many times I’ve had to explain this to someone as if it is a completely foreign idea. Over, and over, and over I meet people who insist on drawing an equivalence between Trump and Obama as if their behavior has no impact on the degree or intensity of the protests. To these people it is all about which “side” you are on, which is in fact a larger pattern of dismissing any and all liberal criticism.
Because it’s never good enough. When people protested for healthcare reform, do the Republicans say, “Wow, these people are really upset. We should fix this problem.” No. They say, “These are socialists and George Soros paid protestors.” They are insincere. We don’t have to care what they think because they’re liberal political operatives.
And huge numbers of people turned out to protest Trump. Did anyone ask why they were angry? Did anyone actually wonder what would motivate someone to drive across the country for the chance to protest? Did anyone even hear what they had to say? Of course not. You give us this stuck-up bullshit because their protests were too loud for you. Or too obnoxious. Or too undignified.
And now you are doing the exact same thing to me. “He put a bad word in capital letters! I don’t have to listen to him!” Or “He says he feels like screaming, so clearly he is mentally unhinged and I don’t have to listen.” As if it never occurs to you that I might be exasperated and frustrated from two years of getting shit on, insulted, and dismissed.
Because you say you want to listen to “rational discussion,” but you don’t. And I mean ‘You’ generally as conservatives and also ‘you’ specifically as an individual. You have your own Pit thread that’s longer than Tolstoy, so when you claim you are willing to listen to what I have to say - even when it is phrased in exactly the right way to meet your precise standards - don’t be surprised that I don’t believe you.
I’m sure these fantasy Democrats have done all kind of terrible and laughable things. I stand with you against these apparitions of evil, and together maybe we can defeat them!
Okay, so if Trump is uniquely bad, how about comparing the responses to Obama vs Bush?
As presidents, both’s policies were practically indistinguishable, at least from where I’m sitting. Both very right wing, very war-mongering, itching to start wars or shoot and bomb people in other countries. Both infamous for signing into law huge expensive medical programs that mainly served the interests of the big private medical industrial complex. Above all, both incurably conservative in their outlooks.
I used to read blogs from both tribes. ISTM the reponses were largely comparable. Maybe the extreme end of reponses was a bit more extreme to Obama (relative to how similar their policies were as presidents).
One notable difference between the reactions to Obama and Bush: When Bush occasionally did things that liberals like, we supported him, at least for those decisions. When Obama did things that conservatives like, though, they still opposed him, because it was absolutely essential that he never be allowed to accomplish anything.
What are those things you’re thinking of? As a counter example, when he signed the National Park carry amendment into law, the conservatives I know supported that action.
Yeah, on second thought, I agree. The responses across the tribal spectrum were more supportive to Bush than Obama.
Of course what immediately comes to mind is the broad support to that damn fool war Bush wanted to start. Versus the opposition to the minor bombing that Obama once wanted.
Also: What mainstream politician from the Bush opposing tribe said that “the most important thing is to make Bush a one-term president”?
Also: There was a powerful senior U.S. Senator that switched tribes to Bush during his early reign. Can’t think of the opposite happening during Obama’s reign off the top of my head.
So do we conclude that Republicans took defeat harder between these Presidents?
There were many conservatives, including Sarah Palin, who praised Obama’s 2009 Nobel Prize acceptance speech in which he talked about Just War theory and the necessity of military force in some situations. I don’t know of any conservatives who objected to Obama’s arms sales to Taiwan, or felt that Osama bin Laden should have remained un-killed.
I’d offer to bet on the following question, but we’d have to let our grandchildren settle up.
In 2069, fifty years from now, how will historians rank the following three in order of the magnitude of their adverse effect on the U.S.A.?
(a) The terrorist attacks of 11 Sept. 2001.
(b) The 2003 Invasion of Iraq and its follow-up.
(c) The Presidency of Donald J. Trump.
I won’t be around to collect on the bet but I’d offer good odds if you’re betting the way it sounds.
Sorry seems I was wrong? Now I can only find Jim Jeffords and he switched the other way.
List of party switchers in the United States
If wrong, I stand corrected.
ETA: Although, according to that link, there were way more “Democratic to Republican, 2010–Present” than the opposite.
I don’t know who takes it “harder”, but democrats certainly seem more eager to take to the streets.
JB99,
I wrote out a more detailed response but it just felt too much like clubbing baby seals to post. Your posts seem to be descending into an unhealthy level of extremism. I encourage you to talk to someone or seek help.
I’m not sure which post you’re talking about, but I found** JB99** to be spot on.
If you have a critique of this passage, I’d be interested in hearing it.
Democrats tend to be younger, and younger people tend to go out more than older people.
If you’re implying anything about violence, the statistics show that right-wing violence kills far more people in America than left-wing violence, but that might not be what you’re saying.
Well, for starters, Republicans absolutely hated it when Obama passed Gingrich’s health care plan.