# Which Sitcom was Better? Cheers Or Frasier? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 14, 2015, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-sitcom-was-better-cheers-or-frasier/737555 "2015-11-14T13:53:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2015, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-sitcom-was-better-cheers-or-frasier/737555/21 "2015-11-14T22:31:37Z")
…Cheers is one of my all-time favourite programmes. I can take or leave Frasier: I’d watch it if it were on, but it never really grabbed me. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2015, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-sitcom-was-better-cheers-or-frasier/737555/22 "2015-11-14T22:43:40Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > Guess I’ll be the first odd duck to say that I loved Cheers but never really got into Fraiser. Me, too. I don’t mind _Frasier_, but _Cheers_ was sublime, one of my top sitcoms of all-time. ---
**Author:** ![burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/burpo_the_wonder_mutt/32/365_2.png) [@burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/burpo_the_wonder_mutt)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2015, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-sitcom-was-better-cheers-or-frasier/737555/23 "2015-11-14T23:35:41Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > Good point, [T’Pau](http://www.imdb.com/character/ch0001668/?ref_=nm_flmg_act_15) was awesome, but Kirstie/Saavik \> [Arlene Martel](http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0551458/?ref_=tt_cl_t5)/[T’Pring](http://www.imdb.com/character/ch0078325/?ref_=tt_cl_t5) Well, as long as we’ve derailed this bad boy, in for a penny, in for a pound: Celia Lovsky/T’Pau \> Dame Judith Anderson/Vulcan High Priestess\* \> Kirstie/Saavik\*\* \> Any other actress/Every other Vulcan female in any version \> Winona Ryder/Spock’s mom \> Da end \*ST III: Search for Spock (very close race with Lovsky) \*\*I’ll give you this one for now–would you lie to me? 'Course not. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2015, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-sitcom-was-better-cheers-or-frasier/737555/24 "2015-11-15T01:57:17Z")
> [@burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](#): > > Well, as long as we’ve derailed this bad boy, in for a penny, in for a pound: > > Celia Lovsky/T’Pau \> Dame Judith Anderson/Vulcan High Priestess\* \> Kirstie/Saavik\*\* \> Any other actress/Every other Vulcan female in any version \> Winona Ryder/Spock’s mom \> Da end Wait a minute! If you’re going to put Winona Ryder in there, then you also have to put in Jane Wyatt as the original mother of the original Spock. In which case it’s Celia Lovsky\>Jane Wyatt\>etc. [QUOTE=Norm!] Well, I suppose that proves that the coyote’s the Antichrist! [/Quote] Anyway, back to the original question. _Fraiser_ was witty and sophisticated. _Cheers_ could be witty and sophisticated, but also laugh-out-loud funny. ---
**Author:** ![burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/burpo_the_wonder_mutt/32/365_2.png) [@burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/burpo_the_wonder_mutt)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2015, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-sitcom-was-better-cheers-or-frasier/737555/25 "2015-11-15T02:53:48Z")
> [@kunilou](#): > > Wait a minute! If you’re going to put Winona Ryder in there, then you also have to put in Jane Wyatt as the original mother of the original Spock. > > In which case it’s Celia Lovsky\>Jane Wyatt\>etc. \ That’s fine, excellent choice. Ryder was put last to imply she was the worst actress playing a Vulcan woman of the entire ST universe. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2015, 5:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-sitcom-was-better-cheers-or-frasier/737555/26 "2015-11-15T05:43:38Z")
So many episodes of \*Frasier \*had plots that, I swear, were stolen from old \*opéra bouffe \*and operettas. Especially the “Ski Lodge” episode. Not that there’s anything wrong with that. \*Cheers \*was ok, but it didn’t have David Hyde Pierce. ---
**Author:** ![NDP](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ndp/32/55_2.png) [@NDP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NDP)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2015, 9:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-sitcom-was-better-cheers-or-frasier/737555/27 "2015-11-15T09:34:14Z")
I liked both shows but I give the edge to “Cheers” over “Frasier”. (Of course that may be due the fact that I had an irrational and inexplicable crush on Shelley Long but I don’t want to get too deep into the matter.) ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2015, 9:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-sitcom-was-better-cheers-or-frasier/737555/28 "2015-11-15T09:50:57Z")
I just never got into _Cheers_ for some reason, but Shelly Long was definitely the best thing about it as far as I was concerned. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2015, 10:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-sitcom-was-better-cheers-or-frasier/737555/29 "2015-11-15T10:00:37Z")
_Cheers_ is a better ensemble, with funnier quickfire gags. But _Frasier_ was better structured, with stronger characterisation. ---
**Author:** ![don\_t\_ask](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@don\_t\_ask](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/don_t_ask)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2015, 10:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-sitcom-was-better-cheers-or-frasier/737555/30 "2015-11-15T10:27:52Z")
_Cheers_ is by a long way my all time favorite sitcom. It was just about perfect in every regard. I recall once I was accompanying my wife out of town where she was conducting her own seminars. Other than a bit of housekeeping, shepherding and problem solving I didn’t have much to do. Sitting in the hotel room I flicked channels and found\* Cheers\*. It was an episode I had seen before but I watched anyway and it was laugh out loud funny. The next night we arrived back home late and turned on the TV to find the local station playing the exact same episode of _Cheers_. So one day later I watched it again and it was still funny. I think by the time _Frasier_ peaked I had mostly stopped religiously watching shows week after week and although I caught the odd episode and thought each one excellent I probably watched less than 20 in all. Still I guess nowadays a big, big binge watch could be a good idea. ---
**Author:** ![Uniqueorn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/uniqueorn/32/2807_2.png) [@Uniqueorn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uniqueorn)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2015, 10:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-sitcom-was-better-cheers-or-frasier/737555/31 "2015-11-15T10:48:19Z")
> [@burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](#): > > \ > > That’s fine, excellent choice. Ryder was put last to imply she was the worst actress playing a Vulcan woman of the entire ST universe. But isn’t Spock’s mother human? Anyway, back to the original question: Cheers was good, but Frasier was just about the best ever (at least until season 9 or so). ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2015, 12:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-sitcom-was-better-cheers-or-frasier/737555/32 "2015-11-15T12:06:40Z")
> [@Uniqueorn](#): > > But isn’t Spock’s mother human? Yes, as was his stepmother. ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2015, 12:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-sitcom-was-better-cheers-or-frasier/737555/33 "2015-11-15T12:13:55Z")
Cheers had Lilith. No she wasn’t the prettiest girl at the ball, but damn if she didn’t ooze sex appeal. ---
**Author:** ![Honey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/honey/32/5074_2.png) [@Honey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Honey)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2015, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-sitcom-was-better-cheers-or-frasier/737555/34 "2015-11-15T14:46:15Z")
If it wasn’t for stupid Sam/Diane romance I would pick Cheers. Because of that I choose Frasier. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2015, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-sitcom-was-better-cheers-or-frasier/737555/35 "2015-11-15T15:03:14Z")
> [@Grrr](#): > > Cheers had Lilith. No she wasn’t the prettiest girl at the ball, but damn if she didn’t ooze sex appeal. Bebe Neuwirth is quite beautiful in real life. She was just made up to look creepy on _ **Cheers!** _ I knew the first time I saw her that she’d turn out to be gorgeous when she let her hair down, and sure enough, she was soon dancing barefoot on a bed for Sam. At that point, I went “Oooooooooooh, yeah!” :o ---
**Author:** ![BrotherCadfael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BrotherCadfael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrotherCadfael)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2015, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-sitcom-was-better-cheers-or-frasier/737555/36 "2015-11-15T15:16:15Z")
> [@burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](#): > > Bring back Celia Lovsky! My wife had an old Bonanza rerun on the other day. I was in the kitchen, and, at one point, my ears perked up and I said, “That’s T’Pau!”. A quick google confirmed that the character, a Mexican grand dame, was indeed Celia Lovsky. Her voice was unmistakable. By the way, did you know she was married to Peter Lorre? ---
**Author:** ![salinqmind](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3ec8ea/32.png) [@salinqmind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/salinqmind)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2015, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-sitcom-was-better-cheers-or-frasier/737555/37 "2015-11-15T15:24:16Z")
Frasier. A thousand times better than Cheers, IMO. ---
**Author:** ![burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/burpo_the_wonder_mutt/32/365_2.png) [@burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/burpo_the_wonder_mutt)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2015, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-sitcom-was-better-cheers-or-frasier/737555/38 "2015-11-15T16:06:56Z")
> [@BrotherCadfael](#): > > My wife had an old Bonanza rerun on the other day. I was in the kitchen, and, at one point, my ears perked up and I said, “That’s T’Pau!”. A quick google confirmed that the character, a Mexican grand dame, was indeed Celia Lovsky. Her voice was unmistakable. > > By the way, did you know she was married to Peter Lorre? That little tidbit just went into the trivia vault. Much obliged. The '60s and '70s were rife with that; almost any show would have a guest star that you knew from another show–“Rockford Files,” in particular, was good for this. My favorite _Frasier_ joke, bar none: when Jane Leeves was pregnant, they had Daphne put on alotta weight and eventually go to the fat farm. Once, Daphne was on the floor and needed help getting up, so Niles, Frasier and Martin had to put their backs into it, when Martin says: It took three Cranes to lift her. Two seconds for the joke to sink in, and then _ **I** _ was on the floor. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2015, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-sitcom-was-better-cheers-or-frasier/737555/39 "2015-11-15T16:07:33Z")
> [@BrotherCadfael](#): > > By the way, did you know she was married to Peter Lorre? Yes, and she was the _Frau_ of John Banner\* in _ **36 Hours** _. \*Aka Sgt Schultz on _ **Hogan’s Heroes** _. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2015, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-sitcom-was-better-cheers-or-frasier/737555/40 "2015-11-15T16:19:48Z")
Celia had quite an impressive filmography, in fact: [http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0522767/](http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0522767/) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-sitcom-was-better-cheers-or-frasier/737555.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-sitcom-was-better-cheers-or-frasier/737555.md?page=3)