# Which Starfleet admiral most deserved a punch in the schnozz, and why? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 1, 2015, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-starfleet-admiral-most-deserved-a-punch-in-the-schnozz-and-why/739151 "2015-12-01T22:03:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![ekedolphin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ekedolphin/32/10003_2.png) [@ekedolphin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ekedolphin)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2015, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-starfleet-admiral-most-deserved-a-punch-in-the-schnozz-and-why/739151/21 "2015-12-02T21:13:37Z")
Oh, man, I can’t believe I forgot about Admiral Leyton from DS9’s “Homefront” and “Paradise Lost”! He was trying to replace the Federation’s civilian government with a Starfleet military dictatorship. Scared people into believing the Founders had invaded Earth. Ordered Red Squad to sabotage the main power grid. Ordered one of his starships to fire on the _Defiant_ after lying to them and telling them it had been taken over by the Founders. He even had the audacity to say to Sisko, while standing in Sisko’s home in New Orleans, “Go home. You don’t belong here.” ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2015, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-starfleet-admiral-most-deserved-a-punch-in-the-schnozz-and-why/739151/22 "2015-12-02T21:19:11Z")
> [@Jim\_s\_Son](#): > > Perhaps Commodore Russo in TOS “Ultimate Computer”. Granted it is a runaway computer on Enterprise that kills everyone on one starship and 53 on another, but shouldn’t you be conducting these exercises with shields up, just in case? > > [The Ultimate Computer - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ultimate_Computer) Commodore Robert Wesley. The actor was Barry Russo. I never realized until now that he also played Security Chief Giotto in “The Devil in the Dark.” > **[Barry Russo](https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Barry_Russo)** > > Barry Russo (3 May 1925 – 13 December 2003; age 78), also known as John Duke Russo, was an actor who played Giotto in the Star Trek: The Original Series first season episode "The Devil in the Dark" and Wesley in the second season episode "The... Fun Fact: Wesley was Gene Roddenberry’s middle name. The “Robert” was probably a reference to Associate Producer Bob Justman. I remember Russo from when he played a gangster _ **The Untouchables** _: **RUSSO:** [_Wants to make a deal before turning stool pigeon_] You don’t care about my skin! **ELIOT NESS:** [_Grabs Russo by the shirt front_]: That’s right, punk! I care more about the skin on a sausage! ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2015, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-starfleet-admiral-most-deserved-a-punch-in-the-schnozz-and-why/739151/23 "2015-12-02T21:25:54Z")
I would steal Lazarus’ ship, go into the corridor between this and the anti-matter universe and punch Janeway for all eternity. ---
**Author:** ![G0sp3l](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c68b51/32.png) [@G0sp3l](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/G0sp3l)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2015, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-starfleet-admiral-most-deserved-a-punch-in-the-schnozz-and-why/739151/24 "2015-12-02T22:04:04Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > 1. Not an admiral at the time, thou smurf. > 2. It was a communicator, and McCoy left to t behind, not Jimmy, and anyway they probably turned around and beamed out it back. Of all the equipment to have to retrieve, a communicator would be by far the easiest. > 3. Edith Keeler was portrayed by Joan Collins and so was obviously evil. Anyway,it was necessary to repair the timeline. > 4. Smurf! I’m trying to determine if I’ve been insulted. I like smurfs. Well smurfettes anyway. Of course Edith was evil but Captain Man-whore shagged her anyway. Wiki agrees with you about the communicator, so I’ll slink away. ETA: Kirk should have been court-martialed for allowing Scotty to beam tribbles onto the Klingon ship, an indisputable war-crime! So, there!!! ---
**Author:** ![Jim\_s\_Son](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19adc/32.png) [@Jim\_s\_Son](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jim_s_Son)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2015, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-starfleet-admiral-most-deserved-a-punch-in-the-schnozz-and-why/739151/25 "2015-12-03T01:02:12Z")
> [@ekedolphin](#): > > Oh, man, I can’t believe I forgot about Admiral Leyton from DS9’s “Homefront” and “Paradise Lost”! He was trying to replace the Federation’s civilian government with a Starfleet military dictatorship. Scared people into believing the Founders had invaded Earth. Ordered Red Squad to sabotage the main power grid. Ordered one of his starships to fire on the _Defiant_ after lying to them and telling them it had been taken over by the Founders. > > He even had the audacity to say to Sisko, while standing in Sisko’s home in New Orleans, “Go home. You don’t belong here.” ``` The interesting thing around the same time Robert Foxworth played General William Hague on the other space station in outer space "Babylon 5". Hague was correctly suspicious of President Clark and Psi and organized resistance against the declaration of martial law. His character got killed off screen because Foxworth's agent booked him on DS9. ``` > **[William Hague](https://babylon5.fandom.com/wiki/William_Hague)** > > General William Hague was a Human Earthforce officer. He became chairman of Earthforce's Joint Chiefs of Staff, and, later, the first leader of the Earth Alliance Resistance against the authoritarian regime of Earth Alliance President Morgan Clark.... ---
**Author:** ![Hail\_Ants](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/dc4da7/32.png) [@Hail\_Ants](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hail_Ants)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2015, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-starfleet-admiral-most-deserved-a-punch-in-the-schnozz-and-why/739151/26 "2015-12-03T01:21:38Z")
> [@Jim\_s\_Son](#): > > Perhaps Commodore Russo in TOS “Ultimate Computer”. Granted it is a runaway computer on Enterprise that kills everyone on one starship and 53 on another, but shouldn’t you be conducting these exercises with shields up, just in case? > > [The Ultimate Computer - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ultimate_Computer) Ever since watching this episode as a kid I found Wesley’s confusion so ridiculous. Let’s see, the Enterprise was just fitted with a new, experimental computer system whose purpose is to control every aspect of a starship, and now that starship has gone crazy and is killing everyone. Ya think?!? The order from Star Fleet to destroy it makes perfect sense (that was James Doohan’s voice BTW), but Wesley’s incredulous attempt to ask Kirk what _‘he’s’_ doing defies explanation. Just ‘plot drive’ for extra drama… ---
**Author:** ![Mollie\_Magill](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mollie_magill/32/20882_2.png) [@Mollie\_Magill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mollie_Magill)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2015, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-starfleet-admiral-most-deserved-a-punch-in-the-schnozz-and-why/739151/27 "2015-12-03T02:40:34Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > In which we discuss _Star Trek’s_ proud tradition of presenting its flag officers as complete tools. > > I would like to suggest that Kirk, McCoy, and Janeway be eliminated from contention, on account of them all being mostly known for what they did in their non-flag-rank positions. Yes I’d **like** to suggest that, but I’m not gonna bother, because if the thread gets any legs at all, you guys will do whatever the fuck you feel like anyway. Hell, if we get past 25 posts, I fully expect somebody to come up with a circuitous rationale for nominating Neelix. I am not in the business of herding cats. Challenge accepted! … No, I’ve got nothing. I was vacillating between Cdre. Wesley in “The Ultimate Computer” and Adm Cartwright in STIV, but Cartwright has to take the cake. I can overlook wanting to take on the Klingons[sup]\*[/sup] while they were weakened. They’d do the same to you. However, when you throw in two assassination attempts (one successful), I have to draw the line. - - I don’t care what anyone says, the Klingons as a villain sucked, and they sucked more as allies. ---
**Author:** ![E-DUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/e-dub/32/403_2.png) [@E-DUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-DUB)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2015, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-starfleet-admiral-most-deserved-a-punch-in-the-schnozz-and-why/739151/28 "2015-12-03T03:05:54Z")
A lot of the people mentioned deserve worse but Commodore Stocker deserves a belt in the kisser, or maybe just a bitch-slap. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2015, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-starfleet-admiral-most-deserved-a-punch-in-the-schnozz-and-why/739151/29 "2015-12-03T03:20:00Z")
> [@E-DUB](#): > > A lot of the people mentioned deserve worse but Commodore Stocker deserves a belt in the kisser, or maybe just a bitch-slap. Ever wonder if Stocker had the book thrown at him for almost starting an interstellar war for the most dubious motives ever? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2015, 12:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-starfleet-admiral-most-deserved-a-punch-in-the-schnozz-and-why/739151/30 "2015-12-03T12:17:11Z")
Yeah, he shoulda projected a parabolic course to avoid entering the Neutral Zone. Even a cadet knows that. ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2015, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-starfleet-admiral-most-deserved-a-punch-in-the-schnozz-and-why/739151/31 "2015-12-03T14:47:52Z")
> [@Hail\_Ants](#): > > Ever since watching this episode as a kid I found Wesley’s confusion so ridiculous. Let’s see, the Enterprise was just fitted with a new, experimental computer system whose purpose is to control every aspect of a starship, and now that starship has gone crazy and is killing everyone. Ya think?!? The order from Star Fleet to destroy it makes perfect sense (that was James Doohan’s voice BTW), but Wesley’s incredulous attempt to ask Kirk what _‘he’s’_ doing defies explanation. Just ‘plot drive’ for extra drama… Well, there _was_ an “off” switch installed on the command chair. The Commodore may not have been able to imagine that M5 could have rigged a bypass. (Did it reverse the polarity of sumthin’?) ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2015, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-starfleet-admiral-most-deserved-a-punch-in-the-schnozz-and-why/739151/32 "2015-12-03T14:58:30Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Yeah, he shoulda projected a parabolic course to avoid entering the Neutral Zone. Even a cadet knows that. Sulu should have just said “Commodore, you’re relieved!” and taken command, just like in _ **The Caine Mutiny** _ (and “The Doomsday Machine,” for that matter). ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2015, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-starfleet-admiral-most-deserved-a-punch-in-the-schnozz-and-why/739151/33 "2015-12-03T16:16:59Z")
I’m going to be predictive. Since Chris Pine’s rebooted Kirk is now the worst Starfleet captain in the universe, sooner or later he will become the worst Starfleet admiral in the universe. ---
**Author:** ![Jim\_s\_Son](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19adc/32.png) [@Jim\_s\_Son](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jim_s_Son)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2015, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-starfleet-admiral-most-deserved-a-punch-in-the-schnozz-and-why/739151/34 "2015-12-03T16:21:19Z")
> [@Hail\_Ants](#): > > Ever since watching this episode as a kid I found Wesley’s confusion so ridiculous. Let’s see, the Enterprise was just fitted with a new, experimental computer system whose purpose is to control every aspect of a starship, and now that starship has gone crazy and is killing everyone. Ya think?!? The order from Star Fleet to destroy it makes perfect sense (that was James Doohan’s voice BTW), but Wesley’s incredulous attempt to ask Kirk what _‘he’s’_ doing defies explanation. Just ‘plot drive’ for extra drama… I always found the joy at the end of this episode as ridiculous. Let’s see: a major scientific experiment failed completely, one starship severely damaged, another also damaged, maybe 500 people dead, your top scientist is insane. But hey, James T Kirk saved the day. Romulan ale for all hands! I don’t know if an admiral is responsible but in the pilot for DS9 wasn’t the space station only given six photon torpedoes? ---
**Author:** ![Intergalactic\_Gladiator](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/intergalactic_gladiator/32/112_2.png) [@Intergalactic\_Gladiator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Intergalactic_Gladiator)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2015, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-starfleet-admiral-most-deserved-a-punch-in-the-schnozz-and-why/739151/35 "2015-12-03T17:12:08Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > I’m going to be predictive. Since Chris Pine’s rebooted Kirk is now the worst Starfleet captain in the universe, sooner or later he will become the worst Starfleet admiral in the universe. It’s his destiny. > [@The\_Tooth](#): > > Admiral James T. Kirk. First, for snatching the Enterprise out from under her captain when he didn’t know what he was doing; most guys at that age just by a Corvette or something. Not Kirk. Second, for stealing it _from himself_ to go search for Spock. I think Starfleet would give him an official schozz-punch for these things. All the other jerks, the Admirals and especially the Commodores, were doing their jerkish jobs. Kirk came to my mind quickly as well. In The Motion Picture, he meatballed his way into command of the _Enterprise_ and yoinked the chair away from Decker just 'cuz. Removing Kirk, Janeway, and Neelix from the running though, I think Admiral Haftel is probably due to be Patient Zero in the new Starfleet Admiral Punching Protocol. There’s not a lot of nuance in him, he just wants Lal and that’s about it. Just about all of the admirals exist to bring a little conflict to the main characters but at least most of them had a purpose or reasoning beyond “Want robot.” ---
**Author:** ![Enola\_Straight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dec6dc/32.png) [@Enola\_Straight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enola_Straight)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2015, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-starfleet-admiral-most-deserved-a-punch-in-the-schnozz-and-why/739151/36 "2015-12-03T17:38:28Z")
Admiral Necheyev. With the new treaty with the Cardassians, she forcibly removed federation colonists from their homes (if they were unlucky enough to be on the wrong side of the newly redrawn border) and abandoned the rest in the DMZ leaving them vulnerable to the Cardassians who were not keeping up their end of the bargain. When the colonists began defending themselves, they (The Maquis) were branded enemies of the state. _You treat your people like your people, and the enemy like the enemy…not the other way around._ :mad: ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2015, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-starfleet-admiral-most-deserved-a-punch-in-the-schnozz-and-why/739151/37 "2015-12-03T18:11:18Z")
> [@Intergalactic\_Gladiator](#): > > Just about all of the admirals exist to bring a little conflict to the main characters but at least most of them had a purpose or reasoning beyond “Want robot.” “Admiral, we already had JAG rule on whether Data has the rights of a man.” “Yes. Yes, of course. \ Want robot.” ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2015, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-starfleet-admiral-most-deserved-a-punch-in-the-schnozz-and-why/739151/38 "2015-12-03T18:39:36Z")
I thought that the Admiral in \*Insurrection \*was actually in the right. They are fighting a war for survival and a planet is discovered which causes rapid healing and deagaing? And Picard wants to stop them because…I dunno, the fountain of MILF? ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2015, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-starfleet-admiral-most-deserved-a-punch-in-the-schnozz-and-why/739151/39 "2015-12-03T18:42:34Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > I’m going to be predictive. Since Chris Pine’s rebooted Kirk is now the worst Starfleet captain in the universe, sooner or later he will become the worst Starfleet admiral in the universe. In the Worst Star Trek Universe Ever, no less. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2015, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-starfleet-admiral-most-deserved-a-punch-in-the-schnozz-and-why/739151/40 "2015-12-03T19:11:26Z")
> [@Enola\_Straight](#): > > Admiral Necheyev. > > With the new treaty with the Cardassians, she forcibly removed federation colonists from their homes (if they were unlucky enough to be on the wrong side of the newly redrawn border) and abandoned the rest in the DMZ leaving them vulnerable to the Cardassians who were not keeping up their end of the bargain. > > When the colonists began defending themselves, they (The Maquis) were branded enemies of the state. > > _You treat your people like your people, and the enemy like the enemy…not the other way around._ > > :mad: I can’t agree. Nechayev didn’t make that policy, and she acknowledges to Picard that it’s unfair. She was following the orders of the civilian government, just as Picard was following hers. Plus she was kinda hot. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-starfleet-admiral-most-deserved-a-punch-in-the-schnozz-and-why/739151.md?page=1)