# Which state would make the worst independent country? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [March 25, 2014, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-state-would-make-the-worst-independent-country/684491 "2014-03-25T00:34:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Greg\_Charles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/839c29/32.png) [@Greg\_Charles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Greg_Charles)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2014, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-state-would-make-the-worst-independent-country/684491/21 "2014-03-25T20:03:27Z")
The links given by **silenus** and **ftg** show significant differences in which states are net givers and which are net takers of federal funds. In particular, Florida is shown to be a net giver in yellow/green states list of silenus, but the biggest net taker in ftg’s Wikipedia link. I wonder why the discrepancy? Anyway, in our hypothetical, are we assuming that residents of the seceding state would lose their social security benefits, or would they be treated as Americans living abroad? I’d agree with West Virginia being about the least able to go it alone as a separate country. It’d be entertaining to watch them try though. ---
**Author:** ![HubZilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ccd318/32.png) [@HubZilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HubZilla)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2014, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-state-would-make-the-worst-independent-country/684491/22 "2014-03-25T20:10:02Z")
My state of Hawaii would be absolutely screwed. Like Nevada, Oahu would look like swiss cheese with all the federal military bases. And we’d lose our non-passport US Mainland tourism. I cannot even begin to think how our social services would survive without Fed dollars. With our heavy immigration and a relatively poor populace (especially the minority races compared to the standard of living), it would be a disaster. Yet there are always these groups that can’t wait to restore Hawaiian sovereignty. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2014, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-state-would-make-the-worst-independent-country/684491/23 "2014-03-25T20:23:09Z")
> [@HubZilla](#): > > My state of Hawaii would be absolutely screwed. You were doing fine on your own for a long time. Poi, suckling pigs, grass skirts, that sort of thing. BTW, is there a relationship between the pineapple company and the Governor? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2014, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-state-would-make-the-worst-independent-country/684491/24 "2014-03-25T20:35:32Z")
> [@Ambivalid](#): > > I’d have to say Mississippi. They take more money from the federal govt than any other state and they are among the very poorest (if not the poorest). See my link. Near the worst, but Florida wins in a landslide both in percentages and absolute dollar amounts. The article **silenus** is more about politics than data. Certain categories of Federal funding have to have been excluded (SS?) or data just made up. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2014, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-state-would-make-the-worst-independent-country/684491/25 "2014-03-25T20:43:18Z")
> [@Ambivalid](#): > > I’d have to say Mississippi. They take more money from the federal govt than any other state and they are among the very poorest (if not the poorest). I imagine folks would still want to buy their coal. ---
**Author:** ![Lamar\_Mundane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lamar\_Mundane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamar_Mundane)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2014, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-state-would-make-the-worst-independent-country/684491/26 "2014-03-25T20:44:20Z")
Colorado would be just fine. We have tourism and a healthy economy, but the biggest thing is the Colorado River. Dam it up in Western Colorado and Phoenix and Southern California would be at Colorado’s mercy for their very survival. Water is the currency of the West. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2014, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-state-would-make-the-worst-independent-country/684491/27 "2014-03-25T20:51:52Z")
> [@Lamar\_Mundane](#): > > Colorado would be just fine. We have tourism and a healthy economy, but the biggest thing is the Colorado River. Dam it up in Western Colorado and Phoenix and Southern California would be at Colorado’s mercy for their very survival. Water is the currency of the West. Make a deal for the USA to build a big ass generating plant. Sounds good. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2014, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-state-would-make-the-worst-independent-country/684491/28 "2014-03-25T21:52:21Z")
> [@ftg](#): > > See my link. Near the worst, but Florida wins in a landslide both in percentages and absolute dollar amounts. > > The article **silenus** is more about politics than data. Certain categories of Federal funding have to have been excluded (SS?) or data just made up. I disagree. as you say, much of the federal spending imbalance may come from SS payments which would continue for US expatriates in retirement to the Democratic republic Florida, so this shouldn’t count against them. Also, even if Florida would take the biggest hit from losing government support, but they have a fairly long way to fall. Mississippi would really have a struggle ahead of it. In almost every survey ranking states by education, income, house prices, healthcare etc. Mississippi always comes out at or near the bottom. ---
**Author:** ![Gagundathar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a183cd/32.png) [@Gagundathar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gagundathar)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2014, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-state-would-make-the-worst-independent-country/684491/29 "2014-03-25T22:40:51Z")
Mississippi is probably the most least likely to succeed as an independent nation. My family owns land there, and I have never been anywhere in the US that even approaches the level of dire poverty, squalor and disease than central Mississippi. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2014, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-state-would-make-the-worst-independent-country/684491/30 "2014-03-26T00:48:11Z")
Mississippi would basically be a moderately well-off Latin American nation were it independent. ---
**Author:** ![R.P.McMurphy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7993a0/32.png) [@R.P.McMurphy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/R.P.McMurphy)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2014, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-state-would-make-the-worst-independent-country/684491/31 "2014-03-26T00:48:51Z")
> [@GusNSpot](#): > > Even if the locks are abandoned on the KMNC, Oklahoma & Arkansas have always had good connections to the Gulf. > > Arkansas River & the White River, have been navigated commercially since the early 1800’s. But can they get in the big freighters and tankers that are needed to sustain a modern country. A deep water port is huge to economic self sufficiency. New York and New Jersey are embarking on a major project to raise the road level of the Bayonne Bridge just so they can get the bigger ships into their ports. Mississippi is a mess. If they could get their act together at least they have immediate access to the ocean. Any state that lacks sufficient water is screwed. Colorado, Wyoming, Utah, New Mexico, Arizona and Nevada would be on the ropes if water prices multiplied. We are talking about states becoming independent countries so all water agreements go out the window. Colorado might be able to keep enough to sustain adequate farming but it wouldn’t be easy and then Arizona and Nevada would be totally fucked. Idaho at least has the Snake River and a low population. There is some logic behind the “United States”. Too bad that too many yokels can’t see the big picture and don’t realize the advantage of working together for the common good. The USA would be a better place with a better attitude towards cooperation and without the individuals that are still fighting the Civil War. ---
**Author:** ![HubZilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ccd318/32.png) [@HubZilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HubZilla)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2014, 9:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-state-would-make-the-worst-independent-country/684491/32 "2014-03-26T09:52:40Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > You were doing fine on your own for a long time. > Poi, suckling pigs, grass skirts, that sort of thing. > > BTW, is there a relationship between the pineapple company and the Governor? > :dubious: Pineapples are long gone as a principal part of the economy. Del Monte have packed up for the Philippines and other places. There might be a few Dole fields left here and there, but agriculture not near as big as it used to be (same with sugar). Hawaii did okay on their own, but we’re spoiled by all these here modern conveniences. Take away spam and there’d be another revolution 😃 ---
**Author:** ![DrumBum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e79b87/32.png) [@DrumBum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrumBum)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2014, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-state-would-make-the-worst-independent-country/684491/33 "2014-03-26T15:08:54Z")
> [@Lamar\_Mundane](#): > > Colorado would be just fine. We have tourism and a healthy economy, but the biggest thing is the Colorado River. Dam it up in Western Colorado and Phoenix and Southern California would be at Colorado’s mercy for their very survival. Water is the currency of the West. Is there enough area to store all of the water if you put a dam at the CO - UT border ? Seems like Grand Junction and a few other towns might have to relocate. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2014, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-state-would-make-the-worst-independent-country/684491/34 "2014-03-26T15:14:05Z")
nm ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2014, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-state-would-make-the-worst-independent-country/684491/35 "2014-03-26T15:32:40Z")
> [@ftg](#): > > Delaware would have a problem. One of their main resources is being the PO Box for the HQ of a lot of US companies due to friendly corporation laws. > > If it became independent, those companies would “move” their HQs to other states or deal with hassles of being a foreign business mainly operating in the US. OTOH, it is near the top of [states](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_taxation_and_spending_by_state#Tables_of_Federal_Taxation_and_Spending_by_State) with a bad ratio of federal taxation vs spending. So it would come out ahead if it didn’t have the drain of money going to Washington. I came in to say this exact same thing. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2014, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-state-would-make-the-worst-independent-country/684491/36 "2014-03-26T16:28:27Z")
Texas would be a great contender, not that it would not make it on it’s own, but it just seems like it would not be a pleasant place to live in and may quickly become a police state, well more then it is know to be now. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2014, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-state-would-make-the-worst-independent-country/684491/37 "2014-03-26T16:38:17Z")
> [@Lamar\_Mundane](#): > > Colorado would be just fine. We have tourism and a healthy economy, but the biggest thing is the Colorado River. Dam it up in Western Colorado and Phoenix and Southern California would be at Colorado’s mercy for their very survival. Water is the currency of the West. Yes, but if Texas were to revert back to it’s original possessions when it was a Republic, **all your mountains are belong to us** , and that would include the river as well. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2014, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-state-would-make-the-worst-independent-country/684491/38 "2014-03-26T16:47:56Z")
> [@Projammer](#): > > While CA might be the 12th largest economy, it’s also over 600 billion dollars in debt and looking desperately for relief. Add to that the ongoing water problems they’re having. I’ll take Arkansas, thanks. Eh, that’s only like 25% of their GSP, and they’re running a surplus. As an independent country, they’d have a pretty low debt/gdp ratio compared to pretty much any other developed country. And they’re net contributors to the federal budget, so they’d save money by going it alone. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2014, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-state-would-make-the-worst-independent-country/684491/39 "2014-03-26T17:00:12Z")
> [@Projammer](#): > > Dunno what constitutes craploads of food in your view. With Arkansas producing about [50% of all rice grown in the United States](http://www.arkansas.com/agritourism/crops-commodities/), we’re not likely to starve soon. Add to that millions of acres of soybeans, wheat, and cotton, I’m pretty sure we could come up with enough trade partners to be comfortable. Not to mention diamonds and bauxite. And they’re on the Mississippi. I’m thinking South Dakota would struggle, farming notwithstanding. They get a lot of their money from the government (like Florida) and the financial services sector (like Delaware), both of which would have the problems mentioned previously. They’d still have tourism but I suspect this would shrink somewhat if you needed a passport to get there. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2014, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-state-would-make-the-worst-independent-country/684491/40 "2014-03-26T17:25:38Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > Not to mention diamonds and bauxite. And they’re on the Mississippi. The diamond mine didn’t pay off commercially, and is a tourist trap, where one pays to dig. Not to say that some guys have not found diamonds. I don’t believe Reynolds mines bauxite here anymore. “Company towns” that house workmen, cheap small houses built by the company are deserted in Bauxite and Tull now. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-state-would-make-the-worst-independent-country/684491.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-state-would-make-the-worst-independent-country/684491.md?page=3)