# Which states are most well known across the pond? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [September 10, 2017, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-states-are-most-well-known-across-the-pond/795982 "2017-09-10T01:35:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2017, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-states-are-most-well-known-across-the-pond/795982/41 "2017-09-10T18:44:01Z")
'Cmon! _Everybody_ knows **Nevada** , because Vegas! ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2017, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-states-are-most-well-known-across-the-pond/795982/42 "2017-09-10T19:48:38Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > So, wait, if Eastern Pennsylvania were “New England,” that would mean at least parts of New York and possibly New Jersey would also be New England (unless New England isn’t a contiguous set of states). And I’ve definitely never heard anyone refer to any parts of those states as “New England,” and certainly not any part of Pennsylvania. That was her claim, yes. Specifically, she lived in [New Philadelphia, PA](https://www.google.com/maps/place/New+Philadelphia,+PA+17959/@40.7180807,-76.1335421,14z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m5!3m4!1s0x89c5ea58505630f9:0x52a74bef8032d56f!8m2!3d40.7195342!4d-76.1157708), a small town on the Schuylkill River well upstream of regular Philadelphia. It’s not my claim that that’s part of New England, just that not everybody agrees on what the limits of New England are. While it’s certainly convenient to define New England as the six northeastern states, I’m not sure that’s entirely satisfactory, either. If “New England” is a region of similar culture, geography, economy, etc., then why should it exclude places like Plattsburgh and Lake Placid, and include Greenwich, CT, which is clearly part of metropolitan New York City? > [@Go\_Arachnid\_Laser](#): > > …South Dakota, and I assume a North Dakota. An excellent deduction, but be careful when you get to West Virginia. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2017, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-states-are-most-well-known-across-the-pond/795982/43 "2017-09-10T19:58:13Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > It’s not my claim that that’s part of New England, just that not everybody agrees on what the limits of New England are. I think what you have there is just an outlier or an idiosyncrasy or just a mistaken or ill-informed person. There is no wide disagreement over what constitutes New England. I think that if you do any perfunctory research, you’ll find that the overwhelming majority of sources that define New England define it as those six states, period. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2017, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-states-are-most-well-known-across-the-pond/795982/44 "2017-09-10T20:04:18Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > be careful when you get to West Virginia. This is generally speaking very good advice. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2017, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-states-are-most-well-known-across-the-pond/795982/45 "2017-09-10T20:37:57Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > That was her claim, yes. Specifically, she lived in [New Philadelphia, PA](https://www.google.com/maps/place/New+Philadelphia,+PA+17959/@40.7180807,-76.1335421,14z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m5!3m4!1s0x89c5ea58505630f9:0x52a74bef8032d56f!8m2!3d40.7195342!4d-76.1157708), a small town on the Schuylkill River well upstream of regular Philadelphia. It’s not my claim that that’s part of New England, just that not everybody agrees on what the limits of New England are. It’s agreed on by everyone except the ignorant. I’m sorry, but your friend is either an idiot or you are misinterpreting what she said. > [@](#): > > While it’s certainly convenient to define New England as the six northeastern states, I’m not sure that’s entirely satisfactory, either. If “New England” is a region of similar culture, geography, economy, etc., then why should it exclude places like Plattsburgh and Lake Placid, and include Greenwich, CT, which is clearly part of metropolitan New York City? Because it’s not defined on the basis of similar culture and geography. It’s defined as being those six states. You (and apparently your friend) are making up your own definition. It’s true that upstate New York is more similar culturally to New England than to New York City, but that doesn’t make it part of New England, and nobody regards it as such. If someone said “I’m going to New England to view fall foliage,” no one will think you might be going to upstate New York. ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2017, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-states-are-most-well-known-across-the-pond/795982/46 "2017-09-10T20:45:33Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > While it’s certainly convenient to define New England as the six northeastern states, I’m not sure that’s entirely satisfactory, either. If “New England” is a region of similar culture, geography, economy, etc., then why should it exclude places like Plattsburgh and Lake Placid, and include Greenwich, CT, which is clearly part of metropolitan New York City? Because history. > [@](#): > > The northeastern corner of the United States, north of what today is New York, was first branded “New England” by Captain John Smith, who explored the area in the early 1600s for London merchants. English Puritans subsequently settled the area and their various colonies later evolved into the states of Maine, New Hampshire, Vermont, Massachusetts, Rhode Island and Connecticut. New England was at the foreground of revolutionary thought and the site of most of the early battles in the Revolutionary War. [http://traveltips.usatoday.com/road-trip-new-england-states-17257.html](http://traveltips.usatoday.com/road-trip-new-england-states-17257.html) ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2017, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-states-are-most-well-known-across-the-pond/795982/47 "2017-09-10T21:17:27Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Because it’s not defined on the basis of similar culture and geography. It’s defined as being those six states. You (and apparently your friend) are making up your own definition. > > It’s true that upstate New York is more similar culturally to New England than to New York City, but that doesn’t make it part of New England, and nobody regards it as such. If someone said “I’m going to New England to view fall foliage,” no one will think you might be going to upstate New York. Right. Parts of Connecticut are suburbs of NYC (I have even seen signs in NYC that point towards New England in general) and Providence, Rhode Island has little in common with northern Vermont or Maine but they are all equally New England. It is just Connecticut, Rhode Island, Massachusetts, Maine, New Hampshire and Vermont. That is the definition of the region and it stops as soon as you cross into another state that isn’t part of it. THE END. Lots of people think that Upstate New York is part of New England because it looks like its neighbors but it isn’t just by definition. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2017, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-states-are-most-well-known-across-the-pond/795982/48 "2017-09-10T21:19:58Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Because it’s not defined on the basis of similar culture and geography. It’s defined as being those six states. Then why bother? When you cross a state line you become subject to different laws. When you’re in a city’s metro area you are influenced by its culture and economy. If neither of those things, then what’t the point of having a name for a group of six states? What’s different inside compared to outside, I have to cheer for the Patriots? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2017, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-states-are-most-well-known-across-the-pond/795982/49 "2017-09-10T21:24:21Z")
> [@Go\_Arachnid\_Laser](#): > > Well, I’m an average Joe frome Europe, and, without looking at the other answers, I’m going to try: > > There’s New york, California, Washington (not the city, the state with Seattle), Florida- and then the places in the middle of those. > > Texas is the one with the cowboys, there’s Kansas, home of Superman, South Dakota, and I assume a North Dakota. Illinois, capital- um- Chicago? > > Delaware and Rhode Island are two small ones. Washington D.C. is a city and a state, I think. Don’t know if it counts. But it’s next to Maryland and Virginia, I think. There’s Hawaii. New Jersey, of course. New England. New Mexico. > > I guess i could think a couple more, but they are probably irrelevant. Emphasis added. Actually, it’s neither a city nor a state. It’s a “district”. Washington D.C.-- The District of Columbia. But for all intents and purposes, it’s a city. > [@Colibri](#): > > It’s true that upstate New York is more similar culturally to New England than to New York City, but that doesn’t make it part of New England, and nobody regards it as such. If someone said “I’m going to New England to view fall foliage,” no one will think you might be going to upstate New York. [Nobody?](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=19599047&postcount=54)😃 ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2017, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-states-are-most-well-known-across-the-pond/795982/50 "2017-09-10T21:31:26Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > Then why bother? When you cross a state line you become subject to different laws. When you’re in a city’s metro area you are influenced by its culture and economy. If neither of those things, then what’t the point of having a name for a group of six states? What’s different inside compared to outside, I have to cheer for the Patriots? Yes, you have to cheer for the Patriots. Someone told me it was the law or something like that. You live smack dab in the middle of New England yourself just like I do. I can’t give you a philosophical reason for the term “New England” but I can tell you that it means the totality of exactly 6 states and those states only. The refreshing thing about this term is that it is so definite in true New England style even though it has no legal meaning. We can argue all day long about the boundaries of “the South” or where “the West” begins and ends but not New England. There are actual survey lines laid out long ago that make things perfectly clear. Think of it like a fraternity of states. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2017, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-states-are-most-well-known-across-the-pond/795982/51 "2017-09-10T21:43:03Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > Then why bother? When you cross a state line you become subject to different laws. When you’re in a city’s metro area you are influenced by its culture and economy. If neither of those things, then what’t the point of having a name for a group of six states? What’s different inside compared to outside, I have to cheer for the Patriots? Yes, the hyoo-mans have strange customs. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2017, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-states-are-most-well-known-across-the-pond/795982/52 "2017-09-10T21:45:57Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > Yes, you have to cheer for the Patriots. Someone told me it was the law or something like that. You live smack dab in the middle of New England yourself just like I do. I can’t give you a philosophical reason for the term “New England” but I can tell you that it means the totality of exactly 6 states and those states only. The refreshing thing about this term is that it is so definite in true New England style even though it has no legal meaning. We can argue all day long about the boundaries of “the South” or where “the West” begins and ends but not New England. There are actual survey lines laid out long ago that make things perfectly clear. Think of it like a fraternity of states. Okay then. Does anybody have a term for that part of the country settled in early colonial times, with small town centers spaced a day’s ride on horseback apart, remnants of stone walls and old farms, small inns and bed-and-breakfasts, colorful fall foliage (and its attendant tourism)? I had been using “New England”, but apparently that’s not right. ---
**Author:** ![Ukulele\_Ike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/df788c/32.png) [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2017, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-states-are-most-well-known-across-the-pond/795982/53 "2017-09-10T21:48:33Z")
A lot of people think of the Ivy League as “a bunch of fancy colleges in New England.” In reality, only four of the eight are in New England: Harvard (Massachusetts), Yale (Connecticut), Brown (RHode Island), and Dartmouth (New Hampshire). The other four are in New York (Columbia and Cornell), New Jersey (Princeton), and Pennsylvania (UPenn, duh). Also, it’s a god damn _football conference_. I had to convince a co-worker that Stanford, Chicago, and Duke were NOT “Ivy League” colleges, even though they rank above several of them in academics. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2017, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-states-are-most-well-known-across-the-pond/795982/54 "2017-09-10T21:51:40Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > Okay then. > > Does anybody have a term for that part of the country settled in early colonial times, with small town centers spaced a day’s ride on horseback apart, remnants of stone walls and old farms, small inns and bed-and-breakfasts, colorful fall foliage (and its attendant tourism)? I had been using “New England”, but apparently that’s not right. New Hampshire. ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2017, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-states-are-most-well-known-across-the-pond/795982/55 "2017-09-10T22:14:33Z")
> [@Ukulele\_Ike](#): > > A lot of people think of the Ivy League as “a bunch of fancy colleges in New England.” > > In reality, only four of the eight are in New England: Harvard (Massachusetts), Yale (Connecticut), Brown (RHode Island), and Dartmouth (New Hampshire). > > The other four are in New York (Columbia and Cornell), New Jersey (Princeton), and Pennsylvania (UPenn, duh). > > Also, it’s a god damn _football conference_. I had to convince a co-worker that Stanford, Chicago, and Duke were NOT “Ivy League” colleges, even though they rank above several of them in academics. That is a good comparison. The Ivy League \<\> great school. There are eight and only eight Ivy League schools. That is all there ever will be. Harvard is the most famous one but its next door neighbor, MIT, whips Harvard’s ass in science and technology. MIT is not in the Ivy League even though it is stronger academically in many subjects. The Ivy League is very literally a sports league for northeastern schools that don’t offer sports scholarships. They are all great schools but other schools all over the country consistently beat them especially when you look at individual departments. ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2017, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-states-are-most-well-known-across-the-pond/795982/56 "2017-09-10T22:19:16Z")
[Is New York in New England?](http://www.isnewyorkinnewengland.com) ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2017, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-states-are-most-well-known-across-the-pond/795982/57 "2017-09-10T22:22:05Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > That is a good comparison. The Ivy League \<\> great school. There are eight and only eight Ivy League schools. That is all there ever will be. Harvard is the most famous one but its next door neighbor, MIT, whips Harvard’s ass in science and technology. MIT is not in the Ivy League even though it is stronger academically in many subjects. The Ivy League is very literally a sports league for northeastern schools that don’t offer sports scholarships. They are all great schools but other schools all over the country consistently beat them especially when you look at individual departments. Harvard is, arguably, the second finest university in the whole of Cambridge, Massachusetts. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2017, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-states-are-most-well-known-across-the-pond/795982/58 "2017-09-10T22:37:31Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > Harvard is, arguably, the second finest university in the whole of Cambridge, Massachusetts. It’s the Stanford of the east. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2017, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-states-are-most-well-known-across-the-pond/795982/59 "2017-09-10T22:38:26Z")
Wait, isn’t William and Mary part of the Ivy League, too? And Washington, DC is a city. It has exactly the same borders as the District of Columbia, which is sort of like a state in some ways but isn’t one, instead being its own unique thing. But then, I don’t think the US is all that unusual in having a special status for the capital territory. Oh, and another reason why state capitals often aren’t the biggest city in the state: State capitals are often deliberately chosen to be in the geographic center of the state. But big cities are almost always built on major bodies of water, and major bodies of water often form the boundaries of states. So the big cities will often be over at the edge of their state. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2017, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-states-are-most-well-known-across-the-pond/795982/60 "2017-09-10T22:40:46Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > That is a good comparison. The Ivy League \<\> great school. There are eight and only eight Ivy League schools. That is all there ever will be. Harvard is the most famous one but its next door neighbor, MIT, whips Harvard’s ass in science and technology. MIT is not in the Ivy League even though it is stronger academically in many subjects. The Ivy League is very literally a sports league for northeastern schools that don’t offer sports scholarships. They are all great schools but other schools all over the country consistently beat them especially when you look at individual departments. The Ivy League is an interesting case. The term “ivy colleges” goes back to the 1930s, and “Ivy League” frst appears in print in 1935, with no strict definition of which schools were included. Wikipedia says: > [@](#): > > the older colleges, those along the northeastern seaboard of the United States, chiefly the nine institutions with origins dating from the colonial era [the current members of the Ivy League minus Cornell and plus William and Mary and Rutgers], together with the United States Military Academy (West Point), the United States Naval Academy, and a few others. The Ivy League didn’t become the formal name of an entity with defined members until 1954. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-states-are-most-well-known-across-the-pond/795982.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-states-are-most-well-known-across-the-pond/795982.md?page=4)