# Which superhero do the other heros like/dislike? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [February 14, 2006, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-superhero-do-the-other-heros-like-dislike/344440 "2006-02-14T13:38:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Menocchio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de053/32.png) [@Menocchio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Menocchio)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2006, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-superhero-do-the-other-heros-like-dislike/344440/21 "2006-02-14T21:02:31Z")
> [@Ethilrist](#): > > So, you don’t count the not-even-remotely-concealed contempt everybody felt for him in the Dark Knight serieses as canon (well, everybody but Wonder Woman, that is)? Nope, because it isn’t canon. In the real DCU, everybody but Batman pretty much looks at Superman with a sense of awe. Batman merely respects him deeply. Superman hasn’t been living up to his potential lately, but I think that’ll change soon. Wonder Woman’s under suspicion very recently, but before that was arguably as beloved as Superman. Perhaps moreso, because she takes steps to spread her message of peace and equality through her position as ambassador. Martian Manhunter has had his ups and downs, but is usually regarded as an elder statesmen among heroes. In public, some fear him because he’s more inhuman than other Leaguers, but some stories have said that he operates extensively in the Southern Hemisphere, and is more popular there than Superman. The Flashes are so popular, they’ve got their own museum. According to Infinite Crisis #4, Dick Grayson is among the most beloved men in the DCU. I’d believe it. Nobody really likes the Spectre. He’s far too bloody, intolerant, and unpredictable. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2006, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-superhero-do-the-other-heros-like-dislike/344440/22 "2006-02-14T21:30:49Z")
> [@Tengu](#): > > Wonder Woman and Zatanna are both fairly divisive issues - there are some who think what they did were unforgivable, there are others who disagree (this covers both ‘there was nothing wrong with what she did’ and ‘it was a mistake, but she’s only human’), and both sides are vocal. What did they do? ---
**Author:** ![Askia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/96bed5/32.png) [@Askia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askia)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2006, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-superhero-do-the-other-heros-like-dislike/344440/23 "2006-02-14T21:56:26Z")
What’d they do? Well, as revealed in DC’s **Infinite Crisis** and the aftermath of **The Omac Project:** Zatanna, urged on by fellow JLAers, has mindwiped a number of JLA enemies over the years – and once, memorably, Batman. He reacted by getting pissy and self-righteous. Wonder Woman killed a beaten and subdued Maxwell Lord in what _might_ broadly be termed self-defense by snapping his neck – his murder was secretly recorded and then quite publicly broadcast worldwide by Brother Eye, and an unrepentant Wonder Woman is still at large, feared by the public and shunned by some heroes. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2006, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-superhero-do-the-other-heros-like-dislike/344440/24 "2006-02-14T21:56:43Z")
_Wonder Woman_ killed Max Lord, who had been controlling Superman, as she felt he could not be stopped otherwise. Superman under the control of a sociopath with an agenda was not a good thing. _Zatanna_, backed up by a majority of the JL, mindwiped Dr. Light and others, and did a short mindwipe on Batman. Light had raped Sue Dibny, and was quite homicidal. The others who were wiped had found out secret identities. Batman, of course, opposed all of this and would have worked behind the League’s back to expose it. He got a short rewind and the offending parts were taped over. ---
**Author:** ![Askia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/96bed5/32.png) [@Askia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askia)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2006, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-superhero-do-the-other-heros-like-dislike/344440/25 "2006-02-14T21:58:29Z")
Heh. Even the way **D\_Odds** and I phrased it covers the gamut of reactions. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2006, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-superhero-do-the-other-heros-like-dislike/344440/26 "2006-02-14T21:58:48Z")
Hmmm, should I have spoilered that? I treated it like an episode of an already shown episode of a show. Someone report if you think I did wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Hey\_It\_s\_That\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Hey\_It\_s\_That\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hey_It_s_That_Guy)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2006, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-superhero-do-the-other-heros-like-dislike/344440/27 "2006-02-14T21:59:48Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > What did they do? Wonder Woman was filmed on live international television killing Maxwell Lord, the corrupt, rich, and powerful “Black King” of the Checkmate organization, since he was controlling Superman’s mind and pushing him into a murderous rampage. The old creed is that “real heroes don’t kill,” but after Lord gained control of Batman’s Brother Eye computer, built the OMACs, killed Blue Beetle, and controlled Superman’s mind, Wonder Woman’s only alternative was snapping Lord’s neck. Zatanna mindwiped the super-villain Dr. Light after he raped Sue Dibny, wife of the stretchy super-sleuth Elongated Man. Essentially, she gave him a super-lobotomy, turning the violent and devious criminal into a childlike madman who could easily get his ass handed to him by the Teen Titans. A small group of Justice Leaguers found out, and decided to silently support her: Green Lantern (Hal Jordan), Flash (Barry Allen), Hawkman, Elongated Man, Atom, and Black Canary. But when Batman found out, he would have opposed the mindwipe on moral grounds (it was very much like a mental rape, in his way of thinking), and to cover it up, Zatanna gave him a minor mindwipe as well, causing him to forget ten minutes. The League kept the incidents quiet for years, but Batman found out, and got really pissed. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2006, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-superhero-do-the-other-heros-like-dislike/344440/28 "2006-02-14T22:16:29Z")
**BBVL** , I could be wrong, as I’m not the comic geek you are (:D), but I think that Zatanna sided with the Leaguers voting for a mindwipe. I don’t think she acted unilaterally. And don’t forget the other group she wiped, whose name eludes me…Weather Wizard and others, I think. They had the League’s identities. ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2006, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-superhero-do-the-other-heros-like-dislike/344440/29 "2006-02-14T22:42:54Z")
> [@D\_Odds](#): > > I don’t think she acted unilaterally. She didn’t. Light raped Sue, and a small portion of the League - Hawkman, EL, GA, GL, Canary, Atom, Flash, and Z walked in on them. They wrestled him down, and while Ralph brought Sue to a doctor, Hawkman suggested altering his mind (as an alternative to killing him). GA, GL, and Canary objected. Zatanna agreed, and Atom supported them. After an argument (more of a brawl, by GA’s telling), it was put to a vote. Flash was the deciding vote. He voted to rewrite Light’s mind. They screwed it up. The other time they did it (that we know about) - namely, Catwoman - they did it right. Her personality was intact, but she’d given up crime. Also… The erasure of the Society’s memories shouldn’t be put on the same level as messing with Light or Catwoman’s personalities. Or even playing with Batman’s memory. The Society’s personalities, the cores of their characters, are intact. They’ve just had a single memory removed - a memory which has no effect on who they are, but is dangerous to the heroes and their families far disproportionate to that… ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2006, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-superhero-do-the-other-heros-like-dislike/344440/30 "2006-02-14T22:50:58Z")
> [@Tengu](#): > > Light raped Sue, and a small portion of the League … Wow! That’s one heck of a super villain! ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2006, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-superhero-do-the-other-heros-like-dislike/344440/31 "2006-02-14T22:58:45Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Wow! That’s one heck of a super villain! _snick_ Well, he HAS threatened to do that… ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2006, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-superhero-do-the-other-heros-like-dislike/344440/32 "2006-02-14T23:17:39Z")
> [@Tengu](#): > > Light raped Sue, and a small portion of the League - Hawkman, EL, GA, GL, Canary, Atom, Flash, and Z walked in on them. They wrestled him down, and while Ralph brought Sue to a doctor, Hawkman suggested altering his mind (as an alternative to killing him). GA, GL, and Canary objected. Zatanna agreed, and Atom supported them. After an argument (more of a brawl, by GA’s telling), it was put to a vote. Flash was the deciding vote. He voted to rewrite Light’s mind. Did Ralph know about the rape? I thought they kept him in the dark. The rest is as I remember. ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2006, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-superhero-do-the-other-heros-like-dislike/344440/33 "2006-02-14T23:30:50Z")
> [@D\_Odds](#): > > Did Ralph know about the rape? I thought they kept him in the dark. The rest is as I remember. He knows about the rape. He walked in on it with the rest of them. All they kept him in the dark about is what they did to Light after he left with Sue. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2006, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-superhero-do-the-other-heros-like-dislike/344440/34 "2006-02-14T23:35:40Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Wow! That’s one heck of a super villain! Especially considering the names that followed: > [@Tengu](#): > > Hawkman, EL, GA, GL, Canary, Atom, Flash, and Z ---
**Author:** ![Menocchio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de053/32.png) [@Menocchio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Menocchio)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2006, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-superhero-do-the-other-heros-like-dislike/344440/35 "2006-02-14T23:46:11Z")
> [@Tengu](#): > > They screwed it up. The other time they did it (that we know about) - namely, Catwoman - they did it right. Her personality was intact, but she’d given up crime. They also did the Top. It didn’t work either (it just made him even crazier, ultimately). Wally and Zatanna had to undo it. The Top, himself a powerful mentalist, attempted to reform the rest of the Flash’s Rogues Gallery. Some didn’t take, and he undid the rest after his own noggin got fixed. ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2006, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-superhero-do-the-other-heros-like-dislike/344440/36 "2006-02-15T00:05:21Z")
Didn’t Batman walk in on him too, and so he knew about the rape but not their plans to mindwipe him? ---
**Author:** ![Askia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/96bed5/32.png) [@Askia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askia)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2006, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-superhero-do-the-other-heros-like-dislike/344440/37 "2006-02-15T00:07:32Z")
Yeah. He wasn’t prepared for that. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2006, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-superhero-do-the-other-heros-like-dislike/344440/38 "2006-02-15T00:11:13Z")
> [@Askia](#): > > Yeah. He wasn’t prepared for that. DOH! He hates it when that happens. ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2006, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-superhero-do-the-other-heros-like-dislike/344440/39 "2006-02-15T00:24:03Z")
> [@Menocchio](#): > > They also did the Top. It didn’t work either (it just made him even crazier, ultimately). Wally and Zatanna had to undo it. The Top, himself a powerful mentalist, attempted to reform the rest of the Flash’s Rogues Gallery. Some didn’t take, and he undid the rest after his own noggin got fixed. I’d heard about, but then forgotten about the Top. (Oh dear, have I been mindwiped?) But that reminds me…what the screw is going on with Piper? I’ve been hearing confusing descriptions of what’s been done with him. Is he a crook again? I can’t get into recent issues of The Flash, so I have no idea what’s going on with him at all. I know he got brainwashed back to evil, or unbrainwashed away from good, but I’m finding confusing references to which, and whether it stuck or not… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-superhero-do-the-other-heros-like-dislike/344440.md?page=1)