# Which US presidents were killers? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 22, 2004, 10:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-us-presidents-were-killers/241397 "2004-04-22T10:13:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Alex-NC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a587f6/32.png) [@Alex-NC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alex-NC)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2004, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-us-presidents-were-killers/241397/21 "2004-04-22T21:39:28Z")
As we’ve seen, quite a few presidents have killed people. However, wouldn’t the more interesting question be how many First Lady’s have killed somebody? Laura Bush is the only one I’m aware of. ---
**Author:** ![MLS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/919ad9/32.png) [@MLS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MLS)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2004, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-us-presidents-were-killers/241397/22 "2004-04-22T22:12:27Z")
> [@Alex-NC](#): > > As we’ve seen, quite a few presidents have killed people. However, wouldn’t the more interesting question be how many First Lady’s have killed somebody? > > Laura Bush is the only one I’m aware of. “Ladies.” Now that the nitpick is out of the way, please educate me – who did Laura Bush kill? ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2004, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-us-presidents-were-killers/241397/23 "2004-04-23T00:00:13Z")
I seem to recall that as a young man, Washington was waylaid by highwaymen, & he fought them off. Does anybody else recall reading this? Did he kill one? ---
**Author:** ![Spavined\_Gelding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/958977/32.png) [@Spavined\_Gelding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spavined_Gelding)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2004, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-us-presidents-were-killers/241397/24 "2004-04-23T02:30:16Z")
> [@Bosda Di'Chi of Tricor](#): > > I seem to recall that as a young man, Washington was waylaid by highwaymen, & he fought them off. It’s news to me. I’m still trying to figure out if he threw a dollar (Austrian Maria Theresa Taller) across the Rappahannock or chopped down his father’s cherry tree. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2004, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-us-presidents-were-killers/241397/25 "2004-04-23T06:20:42Z")
I bet Reagan killed someone in a movie. ---
**Author:** ![Ranchoth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranchoth/32/1066_2.png) [@Ranchoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranchoth)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2004, 7:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-us-presidents-were-killers/241397/26 "2004-04-23T07:13:12Z")
According to [url=http://www.lib.niu.edu/ipo/ihy950248.html]this link,\* Abe Lincoln may have fought in at least one duel. However, even this one account says that he didn’t actually kill his opponent. And if John Kerry is elected, he’ll be the only U.S. President ever to kill an actual commie himself. (And he’s a DEMOCRAT, no less. What’s the world comin’ to, I ask ya? :D) And re: Laura Bush…I’m seeing some reports that she might have killed her high-school boyfriend in some sort of car accident. I’m still seeking confirmation. ---
**Author:** ![psychonaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/psychonaut/32/4655_2.png) [@psychonaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychonaut)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2004, 11:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-us-presidents-were-killers/241397/27 "2004-04-23T11:38:04Z")
> [@toadspittle](#): > > Lets make a nice, neat list, shall we? Wow… now that I see it that way, they certainly seem like a homicidal lot. Does anyone know how the proportion of killer presidents compares to that for the American male population over the same time frame? That is, are killers overrepresented in the US presidency? ---
**Author:** ![Alex-NC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a587f6/32.png) [@Alex-NC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alex-NC)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2004, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-us-presidents-were-killers/241397/28 "2004-04-23T14:09:50Z")
She killed her boy friend back in the 60’s. She ran a stop sign and he was driving a car crossing the intersection. Killed him dead. She was never even charged. Sounds like vehicular homicide to me. Would you like a link to the story? People killed… for those keeping track… John Kerry 20 GW Bush 0\* Laura Bush 1 \*Does not count the 700 plus dead US soldiers who’ve died in Iraq ---
**Author:** ![Alex-NC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a587f6/32.png) [@Alex-NC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alex-NC)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2004, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-us-presidents-were-killers/241397/29 "2004-04-23T14:33:05Z")
Here’s a comment on Laura Bush’s killing of her boyfriend from a website called ``` Who2.com ``` On the evening of 6 November 1963, two days after her 17th birthday, Laura Welch failed to stop her Chevy sedan at a stop sign and smashed into a Corvair being driven by a school chum, Michael Douglas, also 17. Laura and her passenger, Judy Dykes, were treated for minor injuries at a nearby hospital, where they learned that Douglas had died from his injuries. No police charges were filed, apparently, but paperwork from the accident is missing or unclear. Now Laura Welch is married to U. S. president George W. Bush and is known around the world as LAURA BUSH. The story made national news during the presidential election of 2000, but little new information came to light. At the time her spokesman, Andrew Malcolm, said “To this day Mrs. Bush remains unable to talk about it.” Love that last line about Laura being…" …unable to talk about it." Just a guess here but the guy she killed is unable to talk about ANYTHING. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2004, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-us-presidents-were-killers/241397/30 "2004-04-23T14:49:56Z")
> [@psychonaut](#): > > Wow… now that I see it that way, they certainly seem like a homicidal lot. Does anyone know how the proportion of killer presidents compares to that for the American male population over the same time frame? That is, are killers overrepresented in the US presidency? **toadspittle’s** list gives 17 out of 43 as possibles, 7 out of 43 as confirmed. And that includes Cleveland’s role as hangman. Since almost all the other supposed killings were in wartime that hardly seems high to me. Considering how many presidents were nominated just because they had achieved fame (or a general’s rank) in war, the proportion of confirmed is strangely low. Think of how unlikely it is for Eisenhower, Johnson, Nixon, and Ford all to have served in World War II and not have killed anyone. ---
**Author:** ![sqweels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f19dbf/32.png) [@sqweels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sqweels)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2004, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-us-presidents-were-killers/241397/31 "2004-04-23T16:31:28Z")
> [@](#): > > I bet Reagan killed someone in a movie. Oh, he “killed 'em” alright, but unintentionally. He also dropped many bombs. ---
**Author:** ![hyjyljyj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/0ea827/32.png) [@hyjyljyj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hyjyljyj)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2004, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-us-presidents-were-killers/241397/32 "2004-04-23T16:32:25Z")
> [@Alex-NC](#): > > Here’s a comment on Laura Bush’s killing of her boyfriend from a website called > > ``` > Who2.com > > ``` > > On the evening of 6 November 1963, two days after her 17th birthday, Laura Welch failed to stop her Chevy sedan at a stop sign and smashed into a Corvair being driven by a school chum, Michael Douglas, also 17. Laura and her passenger, Judy Dykes, were treated for minor injuries at a nearby hospital, where they learned that Douglas had died from his injuries. No police charges were filed, apparently, but paperwork from the accident is missing or unclear. Now Laura Welch is married to U. S. president George W. Bush and is known around the world as LAURA BUSH. The story made national news during the presidential election of 2000, but little new information came to light. At the time her spokesman, Andrew Malcolm, said “To this day Mrs. Bush remains unable to talk about it.” > Love that last line about Laura being…" …unable to talk about it." > > Just a guess here but the guy she killed is unable to talk about ANYTHING. What’s there to love? My guess is she feels as terrible about it as any other decent person would in the same circumstances, even though it was accidental. And we thought conservatives were supposed to be the “hateful mean-spirited” ones. Sheesh… ---
**Author:** ![sqweels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f19dbf/32.png) [@sqweels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sqweels)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2004, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-us-presidents-were-killers/241397/33 "2004-04-23T16:35:10Z")
[quote] Think of how unlikely it is for Eisenhower, Johnson, Nixon, and **Ford** all to have served in World War II and not have killed anyone. Hey, I recall from a TV ad during the 1976 presidential race that Ford shot down a Japanese aircraft as an anti-aircraft gunner on a US warship. That counts. ---
**Author:** ![Alex-NC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a587f6/32.png) [@Alex-NC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alex-NC)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2004, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-us-presidents-were-killers/241397/34 "2004-04-23T17:02:48Z")
> [@hyjyljyj](#): > > What’s there to love? My guess is she feels as terrible about it as any other decent person would in the same circumstances, even though it was accidental. > > And we thought conservatives were supposed to be the “hateful mean-spirited” ones. Sheesh… What’s to love? The irony of someone or their spokesperson saying… “she can’t talk about it.” That may be true, but just as likely she probably WONT talk about it or certainly it wouldn’t be in her families political interest to talk about it. But to say she can’t talk about it when the victim who is dead, REALLY can’t talk about it or anything or do anything else, is most ironic. Also, I’m a conservative. I’m for strict adherance to the law. Including vehicular homicide. Even if it’s an accident, you do some jail time. She ought to be clapped in jail for about 2 years for killing this guy. ---
**Author:** ![toadspittle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c0e974/32.png) [@toadspittle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/toadspittle)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2004, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-us-presidents-were-killers/241397/35 "2004-04-23T20:15:03Z")
> [@Bosda Di'Chi of Tricor](#): > > Didn’t Lincoln see militia duty during the Blackhawk War? > [@](#): > > As it was, the company found few Indians to kill during the summer-long campaign. Mostly, as Lincoln joked later, the company made war on the surrounding farms, freely confiscating pigs and chickens for their evening meals and once switching milk cows with another company. > > On one occasion, the men did see the brutal face of war, coming upon a group of five white men who had been killed and scalped in a recent skirmish. “The red light of the morning sun was streaming upon them as they lay heads towards us on the ground,” Lincoln recalled, “and every man had a round, red spot on top of his head about as big as a dollar, where the redskins had taken his scalp. The red sunlight seemed to paint everything all over.” > > As was typical of Lincoln, legends grew out of his temporary service, although not the typically flattering kind. It was said that Lincoln had twice been court-martialed: once for allowing his men to break into their officers’ supply of whiskey and get roaring drunk, and once for permitting someone to shoot off a pistol inside the camp. According to the account, Lincoln had been forced to carry a wooden sword for two days, a report that, if true, Lincoln never mentioned in later years. All he would say of his service was that he “had a good many bloody struggles with the mosquitoes, and although I never fainted from loss of blood, I can truly say I was often very hungry.” > > At the end of the Black Hawk War, \*\*during which he never fired a gun in anger, \*\* Lincoln left the military for good. He promptly used his militia pay to finance his campaign for the state legislature. In the subsequent election he ran eighth in a field of 13 candidates, the only time, he was careful to note, that he “was ever beaten on a direct vote of the people.” But in his own precinct of New Salem, he received 277 of the 300 votes cast. Like many other politicians before and after, Lincoln discovered–however accidentally–that his stint as a soldier had helped pave the way for a successful career in politics. R.M. [http://preview.thehistorynet.com/americascivilwar/editorials/2000/0700.htm](http://preview.thehistorynet.com/americascivilwar/editorials/2000/0700.htm) ---
**Author:** ![Reader99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/df788c/32.png) [@Reader99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reader99)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2004, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-us-presidents-were-killers/241397/36 "2004-04-24T05:05:55Z")
why trash laura bush? at the time of this accident she was a teen-ager attending a public high school. she had no particular political connections or family influence. if the police who investigated the event 40 years ago determined that charges shouldn’t be filed, why chew on it now? and the records weren’t lost or hidden–they were made public after a freedom of information act request was filed. [http://www.oaoa.com/news/nw050400b.htm](http://www.oaoa.com/news/nw050400b.htm) [http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion/e1698.htm](http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion/e1698.htm) [http://www.cnn.com/CNN/Programs/people/bush/profile.html](http://www.cnn.com/CNN/Programs/people/bush/profile.html) ---
**Author:** ![Ranchoth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranchoth/32/1066_2.png) [@Ranchoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranchoth)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2004, 6:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-us-presidents-were-killers/241397/37 "2004-04-24T06:55:36Z")
Wait…a CORVAIR was involved in Laura’s accident? I sense Nader’s presence again…what _is_ that grand puppetmaster up to, here? What scheme does our fine nemesis hold in his iron grip…? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Alex-NC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a587f6/32.png) [@Alex-NC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alex-NC)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2004, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-us-presidents-were-killers/241397/38 "2004-04-24T13:25:26Z")
Who’s trashing Laura Bush? I’m just reporting the facts. Additionally, I gave my own conservative, law-and-order opinion that people who commit manslaughter belong in prison…when I was challenged by someone here as a… librul. And I don’t care if it happened 40 or 60 years ago. Running a stop sign even BY MISTAKE is some kind of vehicular homicide or manslaughter that deserves jail time. Additionally, the precedent was set in the 90’s that regardless as to how long ago or how much any incident by a President had previously been investigated it should be investigated some more. I’m just guessing here that Bush people/right wingers/Republican types don’t want Laura Bush’s vehicular homicide discussed. And everyone must admit… though many President’s have killed people… we all know of only one First Lady that’s killed anyone… so that’s sort of interesting… ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2004, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-us-presidents-were-killers/241397/39 "2004-04-24T16:49:13Z")
**Alex-NC:** _And everyone must admit… though many President’s have killed people… we all know of only one First Lady that’s killed anyone… so that’s sort of interesting…_ But, I think, beside the point of this thread. The OP specifically said that for Presidents to qualify as “killers” according to his criteria, they must have “personally **and deliberately** killed someone” (emphasis added). Irresponsible and/or negligent as Laura Bush’s accident may have been, I don’t think there’s ever been the slightest suggestion that she **deliberately** tried to kill the victim. So she’s not a killer by the standards of this thread. You could only get her on the list by appealing to the Franklin Pierce precedent (i.e., being reckless enough to drive drunk might put you in the deliberate-killer category), but since AFAIK she wasn’t driving drunk at the time of the accident, the cases aren’t analogous. ---
**Author:** ![chula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a4c791/32.png) [@chula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chula)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2004, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-us-presidents-were-killers/241397/40 "2004-04-24T17:36:02Z")
> [@Bosda Di'Chi of Tricor](#): > > Elementary **Otto**. {BTW–did you choose that username because there are only 2 keys on your computer that don’t stick?} > > An Ambassador _is_ a government. For all practical purposes. His home, the Embassy, is considered the soil of his native country; local law does not apply. Local government must ask for permission to enter, & is accountable for the safety of Embassy personnel. > > As the representative of his National Government within a foreign State, he is the embodiment of his Government. His person is off limits. He cannot be arrested, detained, assaulted or killed by representatives of the State that is hosting him. It does not matter if it is the Head of State or a rookie cop; he may not be molested. To attack him is to attack that National Government which he embodies. > > In addition, it signals the total breakdown of civilized, official relations between the two governments in question, as discourse under these conditions is impossible. > > Thus, if the authorities attack the Ambassador, they attack the Nation he represents. > > Usually, in the event of misunderstanding (i.e.–the rookie cop belting an Ambassador), such a blow is forgiven as an accident. But if an Ambassador were to be gravely wounded or killed by the Head of State of his host nation, his Government would be well within their rights to declre that all relations had broken down, & a state of war existed. There’s still no basis in international law, as **Otto** pointed out. Certainly killing ambassadors is frowned upon, but your explanation about the ambassador being the embodiment of the national government makes no sense. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-us-presidents-were-killers/241397.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-us-presidents-were-killers/241397.md?page=3)