# Which vitamins/minerals can you space out, and which are important on hourly/daily basis **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 17, 2018, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-vitamins-minerals-can-you-space-out-and-which-are-important-on-hourly-daily-basis/824684 "2018-11-17T15:52:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![nightshadea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/7ba0ec/32.png) [@nightshadea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nightshadea)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2018, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-vitamins-minerals-can-you-space-out-and-which-are-important-on-hourly-daily-basis/824684/21 "2018-11-20T04:13:47Z")
so will taking 2k a day of D3 like my doc says I need actually help? ---
**Author:** ![nightshadea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/7ba0ec/32.png) [@nightshadea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nightshadea)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2018, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-vitamins-minerals-can-you-space-out-and-which-are-important-on-hourly-daily-basis/824684/22 "2018-11-20T04:15:56Z")
> [@Ike\_Witt](#): > > Thankfully, Orrin Hatch is fighting to ensure that the dietary supplement industry remains unregulated. at least joe weider dosent have propaganda posted on every gnc window anymore unlike the last time they tried to pass some rules ……… ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2018, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-vitamins-minerals-can-you-space-out-and-which-are-important-on-hourly-daily-basis/824684/23 "2018-11-20T05:10:28Z")
> [@am77494](#): > > 1. Many diabetics I know develop Vitamin D deficiency Do they also have varying degrees of kidney failure? It’s been long known that people in kidney failure develop severe osteoporosis, but it was not known until relatively recently that the kidney produces a hormone that changes ingested or sun-made vitamin D into a form that is more usable by the body. They can also become anemic, because the kidney also produces a hormone that stimulates red blood cell production. Many non-medical people have heard of it because it’s been used as a sports supplement; it’s sold under the brand names Procrit or Epogen. People with pernicious anemia also need supplemental vitamin B-12, taken either nasally, SL, or injected, because their stomachs lack a necessary factor to enable its absorption. The strangest dietary deficiency I’ve ever heard of was phenylalanine. When we learned about it in college biology, specifically in association with PKU, one of my classmates said that a few years earlier, she’d had some mysterious symptoms which revealed a deficiency, and she had to take supplements. PKU is the best-known disease detected by a blood test at birth (see footnote) and most people have heard of it, whether they know it or not. Ever noticed that warning on soda cans and other low-calorie foods that says “Phenylketonurics: Contains phenylalanine” and wondered if it pertains to you? Quick answer: If you don’t know what it is, you don’t need to worry about it. > **[Phenylketonuria (PKU) - Symptoms and causes](https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/phenylketonuria/symptoms-causes/syc-20376302)** > > PKU is caused by a change in the gene that helps create an enzyme needed to break down phenylalanine. Treatment includes a special diet and medication. The best-known PKU victim was Carol Buck, the mentally disabled daughter of author Pearl S. Buck. She was normal at birth, in the 1920s, and became disabled as a young child, which is typical for this syndrome; she was not properly diagnosed until middle age, at which time it was too late to do anything for her. Footnote: There have long been rumors that the heel stick done on newborns to test them for PKU and other metabolic diseases is actually the implantation of a microchip. In the late 1990s, I worked at a hospital where I had a lot of contact with OB nurses, and asked one of them if this was true. She said it wasn’t; I told her I was kidding, and she knew I was too, but it wasn’t the first time she’d been asked this. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2018, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-vitamins-minerals-can-you-space-out-and-which-are-important-on-hourly-daily-basis/824684/24 "2018-11-20T05:12:19Z")
> [@nightshadea](#): > > so will taking 2k a day of D3 like my doc says I need actually help? Sure, if you need it. ---
**Author:** ![mikecurtis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mikecurtis/32/3284_2.png) [@mikecurtis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mikecurtis)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2018, 6:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-vitamins-minerals-can-you-space-out-and-which-are-important-on-hourly-daily-basis/824684/25 "2018-11-20T06:10:40Z")
> [@am77494](#): > > The question about vitamins and supplements comes up often and the usual answer is that healthy individuals do not need supplements. > > I agree, that “healthy individuals” do not need supplements but how do you define “healthy individuals”. I am not sure if clinical studies are done for continued use of medications and vitamin deficiencies. For example : > > 1. My friend used a proton inhibitor (OTC medicine like omeprazole ) for number of years. He is a very healthy individual but was diagnosed with magnesium deficiency. May it is not related . > > 2. Many diabetics I know develop Vitamin D deficiency > > 3. Autistic folks seem to do better with liquid B12 > > Then many folks take blood pressure medication or cholesterol or have celiac or are lactose intolerant etc etc > I understand that the above are anecdotal and lack scientific evidence fitting GQ, but the point I am trying to make is that the statement - “Healthy individuals don’t need vitamins” is not helpful. A more helpful statement would be - “ The median American male between the ages of XX to YY needs no vitamins with following exceptions …” (note: I am not a doctor. But I have an elderly father with severe gastro intestinal disorders, and have spent the last 2 years studying just about everything printed on nutrition from all possible sources (CAM to John Hopkins) ) The tricky part of vitamins and minerals are that that they are necessary to stay alive, and many ailments and medications can mess with how you body absorbs, retains, and utilizes them. However. . . The adage that a healthy person doesn’t need to supplement is absolutely true. Most people get everything they need from the food they eat; even if your diet is the “typical American calorie massacre”. The problem comes in because a lot of people don’t think they are healthy or that they could be healthier. **am77494** everything you’ve listed above is and indication of dis-health. You should never take over the counter meds for chronic problems.They are for temporary relief. Proton pump inhibitors specifically say to not use for more than 21 days. If you need ppi’s everyday, you most likely have some gastro intestinal ailment. These ailments can do alot more than just mess with your mag levels. **SEE A DOCTOR!** Diabetes is a disease which can have serious effects on how you process nutrition. **SEE A DOCTOR!**. Vit B12 deficiency in infants (which can produce autism like symptoms) is a rare but serious disorder. **SEE A DOCTOR!** whether or not B12 helps actual autism is not yet known. Lots of prescribed meds can affect how your body utilizes vitamins and minerals, and these “side effects” are well known and the doctor who prescribed the meds should be able to tell you what to look for. If you are unable to see a doctor, then do alot of research. Randomly trying to treat yourself by visiting the supplements aisle will provide a wide variety of results, from wasting your money to making the problem worse. All ailments which require you to take vitamins or minerals require specific ones at specific doses. For example: calcium, vit D and potassium play an intricate dance with each other. So if you start taking a calcium supplement because you’ve gone dairy free and are worried about your bones you could accidentally cause yourself to become potassium deficient which can be worse. tl/dr: healthy people dont need supplements. If you have to ask whether or not you can are healthy; YOU ARE. You will know when you are unhealthy, you body is not subtle in it’s communicating this point. mc ---
**Author:** ![MichaelEmouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/michaelemouse/32/101_2.png) [@MichaelEmouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MichaelEmouse)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2018, 10:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-vitamins-minerals-can-you-space-out-and-which-are-important-on-hourly-daily-basis/824684/26 "2018-11-20T10:53:01Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > I think it would depend on what vitamins and minerals you are not getting in your very restricted diet. Either fasting or tofu. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2018, 11:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-vitamins-minerals-can-you-space-out-and-which-are-important-on-hourly-daily-basis/824684/27 "2018-11-20T11:51:36Z")
> [@nearwildheaven](#): > > They can also become anemic, because the kidney also produces a hormone that stimulates red blood cell production. Many non-medical people have heard of it because it’s been used as a sports supplement; it’s sold under the brand names Procrit or Epogen. More specifically, EPO (erythropoietin) is a banned substance for professional athletes and some athletes have been sanctioned for its use. That put it in the headlines. ---
**Author:** ![x-ray\_vision](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/x-ray_vision/32/351_2.png) [@x-ray\_vision](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/x-ray_vision)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2018, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-vitamins-minerals-can-you-space-out-and-which-are-important-on-hourly-daily-basis/824684/28 "2018-11-20T16:28:34Z")
> [@Ike\_Witt](#): > > Thankfully, Orrin Hatch is fighting to ensure that the dietary supplement industry remains unregulated. One can certainly make an argument that the supplement industry should be more regulated, but that it is unregulated is frequently repeated and not true. Plenty of info regarding the FDA and supplement regs in the paper below. > **[ISSN exercise & sport nutrition review: research & recommendations](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2853497/)** > > Sports nutrition is a constantly evolving field with hundreds of research papers published annually. For this reason, keeping up to date with the literature is often difficult. This paper is a five year update of the sports nutrition review article... ---
**Author:** ![x-ray\_vision](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/x-ray_vision/32/351_2.png) [@x-ray\_vision](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/x-ray_vision)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2018, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-vitamins-minerals-can-you-space-out-and-which-are-important-on-hourly-daily-basis/824684/29 "2018-11-20T16:50:02Z")
> [@mikecurtis](#): > > The adage that a healthy person doesn’t need to supplement is absolutely true We don’t know that and how “healthy” and “need” is defined is relevant. Below is a paper regarding magnesium deficiency alone. I would argue that there is evidence that certain individuals (reasonably defined as “healthy”) may benefit in health (“need”) with magnesium supplementation, and I can base that on evidence in the below paper alone. > **[Review: Subclinical magnesium deficiency: a principal driver of...](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5786912/)** > > Because serum magnesium does not reflect intracellular magnesium, the latter making up more than 99% of total body magnesium, most cases of magnesium deficiency are undiagnosed. Furthermore, because of chronic diseases, medications, decreases in food... ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2018, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-vitamins-minerals-can-you-space-out-and-which-are-important-on-hourly-daily-basis/824684/30 "2018-11-20T17:40:30Z")
> [@TRC4941](#): > > Same at my house - my husband takes all kinds of crap; fish oil, protein powder, glucosamine, etc. He gets a cold at a drop of a hat, has all sorts of aches and pains. The only thing I take is 2 fiber gummies/day. I have no complaints. I know genes play a role too. He is convinced he needs to take all of that junk. Yeah, but is it the chicken and the egg? Most people I’ve known who take all sorts of ludicrous vitamins and supplements are usually people who are one of two things- gimpy or sickly-ish to begin with, and hoping to self-medicate themselves, or some kind of bodybuilder types who think it’ll help them build muscle. ---
**Author:** ![x-ray\_vision](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/x-ray_vision/32/351_2.png) [@x-ray\_vision](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/x-ray_vision)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2018, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-vitamins-minerals-can-you-space-out-and-which-are-important-on-hourly-daily-basis/824684/31 "2018-11-20T18:01:58Z")
> [@mikecurtis](#): > > If you have to ask whether or not you can are healthy; YOU ARE. Nope. > [@](#): > > Results > Persons aware of their hypothyroidism, diabetes mellitus or hypertension reported poorer self-rated health than individuals without such conditions. Women with unknown and subclinical hypothyroidism reported better self-rated health than women with normal thyroid status. In women and men, unknown and probable diabetes as well as unknown mild/moderate hypertension was not associated with poorer health. Furthermore, persons with unknown severe hypertension reported better health than normotensive persons. > > Conclusions > People with undiagnosed but prevalent hypothyroidism, diabetes mellitus and hypertension often have good self-rated health, while when aware of their diagnoses, they report reduced self-rated health. Use of screening, more sensitive tests and widened diagnostic criteria might have a negative effect on perceived health in the population. > **[Is there an association between disease ignorance and self-rated health? The...](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4039843/)** > > To explore whether awareness versus unawareness of thyroid dysfunction, diabetes mellitus or hypertension is associated with self-rated health.Large-scale, cross-sectional population-based study. The association between thyroid function, diabetes... If we could just know we are healthy so easily, screening tests would be unneeded. > [@](#): > > You will know when you are unhealthy, you body is not subtle in it’s communicating this point. It VERY often is subtle in communicating that point. In many cases, so subtle there are no symptoms recognized by the person. Yet, they drop dead one day from blocked coronary arteries or something else, or are surprised when a doc diagnoses them with a serious condition. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2018, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-vitamins-minerals-can-you-space-out-and-which-are-important-on-hourly-daily-basis/824684/32 "2018-11-20T18:40:13Z")
> [@nearwildheaven](#): > > Maybe it’s a placebo effect for me, but if I miss my B6, I wake up with numb hands. The three most common deficiencies in the USA are **B6** , Iron (women & young kids), and D. Vit C runs 4th. About 10% of the population has some deficiency. > **[4page\_%202nd%20nutrition%20report\_508\_032912.pdf](https://www.cdc.gov/nutritionreport/pdf/4page_%202nd%20nutrition%20report_508_032912.pdf)** > > 590.69 KB So, yeah, a daily multivite is by no means a bad thing. Vegans should add B12. My wife’s MD has prescribed Biotin, and that’s common for older people. Folic acid is critical during pregnancy. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2018, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-vitamins-minerals-can-you-space-out-and-which-are-important-on-hourly-daily-basis/824684/33 "2018-11-20T20:12:13Z")
> [@MichaelEmouse](#): > > Either fasting or tofu. I wasn’t aware that eating tofu made for a restrictive diet. As mentioned elsewhere in this thread, vegetarians would want to keep track of a few vitamins like B12, but otherwise the diet itself isn’t particularly restrictive. I’m no expert on fasting, but if you do a periodic 24 hour fast I don’t think you’d need additional supplements. If you are on a 500 calorie per day diet then you would have to carefully look at what you are eating and supply the missing parts. ---
**Author:** ![x-ray\_vision](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/x-ray_vision/32/351_2.png) [@x-ray\_vision](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/x-ray_vision)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2018, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-vitamins-minerals-can-you-space-out-and-which-are-important-on-hourly-daily-basis/824684/34 "2018-11-20T20:19:02Z")
> [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](#): > > Frankly, unless you’ve been diagnosed with a specific disease or specific vitamin/mineral deficiency which is actually impairing your health, or are following an extremely restrictive diet, I doubt very much that taking vitamin/mineral supplements are benefitting you whatsoever. Nor are they harming you unless you’re taking megadoses. > > And that’s not just me talking, that’s current medical opinion, per [UpToDate.com](http://UpToDate.com): > > > [@](#): > > > > For adults with a balanced diet, there is no convincing scientific/medical evidence that taking multivitamins in the usual doses of 50 to 200 percent of the Recommended Dietary Allowance (RDA) is either helpful or harmful. Well, you said “you” and [UpToDate.com](http://UpToDate.com) said “for adults with a balanced diet.” I think most people\* would agree with that quote by [UpToDate.com](http://UpToDate.com). The argument is usually that they are not, or _may_ not be, getting a balanced diet. The point in taking them is to balance the diet. It’s similar to saying, “if your diet is balanced, you don’t have to do anything further to balance it.” That quote from [UpToDate.com](http://UpToDate.com) implies that there is convincing evidence that fairly low dose multivitamins may be helpful for those that don’t have a balanced diet, or there would be no good reason to add that qualifier. There isn’t one “current medical opinion” on most anything regarding nutrition. \*There are certainly many people that believe that mega-dosing certain vitamins are helpful, but I’m hopeful that it’s not most people. Let’s look at this part of your quote again (bolding mine): > [@](#): > > Frankly, unless you’ve been **diagnosed with a specific disease or specific vitamin/mineral deficiency** which is actually impairing your health, or are following an extremely restrictive diet, **I doubt very much that taking vitamin/mineral supplements are benefitting you whatsoever.** Would the supplements have been helpful _before_ one got diagnosed with one of the above? Of course. Do some people have vitamin or mineral deficiencies that go un-diagnosed or aren’t diagnosed because many people don’t get preventative medical attention and/or have deficiencies that aren’t recognized? Of course. See the link in post 29 which relates to just one mineral. Regarding that one mineral, the following is from the most recent published review on magnesium: > [@](#): > > Approximately 50% of Americans consume less than the EAR for magnesium, and some age groups consume substantially less. A growing body of literature from animal, epidemiologic, and clinical studies has demonstrated a varied pathologic role for magnesium deficiency that includes electrolyte, neurologic, musculoskeletal, and inflammatory disorders; osteoporosis; hypertension; cardiovascular diseases; metabolic syndrome; and diabetes. Studies have also demonstrated that magnesium deficiency is associated with several chronic diseases and that a reduced risk of these diseases is observed with higher magnesium intake or supplementation. Subclinical magnesium deficiency can exist despite the presentation of a normal status as defined within the current serum magnesium reference interval of 0.75-0.95 mmol/L. > **[Perspective: The Case for an Evidence-Based Reference Interval for Serum...](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28140318/)** > > The 2015 Dietary Guidelines Advisory Committee indicated that magnesium was a shortfall nutrient that was underconsumed relative to the Estimated Average Requirement (EAR) for many Americans. Approximately 50% of Americans consume less than the EAR... I don’t know what definition [UpToDate.com](http://UpToDate.com) goes with for “balanced diet”, but I would think if 50% of Americans aren’t getting the EAR for just one specific mineral (the EAR is even lower than the RDA), there are many Americans that don’t have a balanced diet. Or maybe there is a less stringent definition for what entails a balanced diet. In that case, I believe I have shown when cherry-picking just one mineral, those that have a balanced diet yet don’t meet the RDA or EAR for it may benefit their health by supplementing with it according the the current literature. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2018, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-vitamins-minerals-can-you-space-out-and-which-are-important-on-hourly-daily-basis/824684/35 "2018-11-20T20:49:49Z")
> [@mikecurtis](#): > > … > **am77494** everything you’ve listed above is and indication of dis-health. > You should never take over the counter meds for chronic problems.They are for temporary relief. Proton pump inhibitors specifically say to not use for more than 21 days. If you need ppi’s everyday, you most likely have some gastro intestinal ailment. These ailments can do alot more than just mess with your mag levels. **SEE A DOCTOR!** … So, yeah, I have a gastrointestinal problem, and I see a doctor, a pcp and a gastroenterologist. And I take a PPI every day. And my pcp has both told me that long-term use of PPIs is risky, and I should take as little as I can, but has also told me that if I don’t treat my heartburn it is likely to develop into esophageal cancer. My gastroenterologist just told me to take lots of PPI, but when I told him what my PCP said, he said “huh, he’s my doctor, too, I guess I should ask him about that.” It’s not as if there’s one true perfect answer that every doctor knows. And I am non-the-less relatively healthy. But I do wonder about vitamin supplements. I’ve been tested low-ish for vitamin D, for instance. At one point I was prescribed some huge dose of D, eventually my levels were normal, and I don’t believe they’ve been tested since. And I wonder about other deficiencies I might be acquiring due to my long-term PPI use. which is likely to be a life-long thing. ---
**Author:** ![mikecurtis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mikecurtis/32/3284_2.png) [@mikecurtis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mikecurtis)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2018, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-vitamins-minerals-can-you-space-out-and-which-are-important-on-hourly-daily-basis/824684/36 "2018-11-20T21:25:45Z")
> [@x-ray\_vision](#): > > [Review: Subclinical magnesium deficiency: a principal driver of cardiovascular disease and a public health crisis - PMC](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5786912/) > [@x-ray\_vision](#): > > Nope. > > [Is there an association between disease ignorance and self-rated health? The HUNT Study, a cross-sectional survey - PMC](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4039843/) > > If we could just know we are healthy so easily, screening tests would be unneeded. Thank you for those studies. Very interesting. But, I have a couple of quibbles with you. The magnesium study does seem to suggest that Mg deficiency is more prevalent than most thought, but it still only places it at around 15% of the population, and it seems to be confined to 3 main groups: post menopausal women, the very active (athletes), and people with malabsorption issues: > [@from that study](#): > > . . .malabsorption issues (magnesium is absorbed in the small intestine and in the colon3; thus, patients with intestinal or colon damage such as Crohn’s disease, irritable bowel syndrome, coeliac disease, gastroenteritis, idiopathic steatorrhoea, ulcerative colitis, resection of the small intestine, ileostomy patients or patients with ulcerative colitis may have magnesium deficiency). Renal tubular acidosis, diabetic acidosis, prolonged diuresis, acute pancreatitis, hyperparathyroidism and primary aldosteronism can also lead to magnesium deficiency. so not really something that most of the population should be worried about, unless you are already sick (and unfortunately post menopause has so many issues associated with it that it should be treated as an illness) - but that doctors should watch more than they do. As for the self reporting study; I read it opposite of the way you do. That knowledge of disease leads to an increase in the perceived health of an individual being negative. That is; if you know you have a disease you feel worse than if you don’t, not that if you don’t know you have a disease you feel fine. > [@x-ray\_vision](#): > > . . .It VERY often is subtle in communicating that point. In many cases, so subtle there are no symptoms recognized by the person. Yet, they drop dead one day from blocked coronary arteries or something else, or are surprised when a doc diagnoses them with a serious condition. People DO walk around with undiagnosed diseases, it is true. But I wouldn’t say “very often”. For example: It is estimated that 8 million Americans have heart disease and don’t even know it. And while that number may seem huge, it represents under 3% of the population. If you are walking around worrying that you have asymptomatic heart disease then you are causing yourself grief for no reason. And that’s the larger point I was trying to make. Alot of people feel they are unhealthier than they actually are, and turn to supplements as some sort of magic pill. And most of the time they are wrong. mc ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2018, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-vitamins-minerals-can-you-space-out-and-which-are-important-on-hourly-daily-basis/824684/37 "2018-11-20T22:24:28Z")
And if you’re deficient in some micronutrient because of malabsorbtion issues, then increasing your intake of the vitamin itself might not even help. You need to figure out what’s causing the malabsorption, and fix that, which means asking a doctor. ---
**Author:** ![x-ray\_vision](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/x-ray_vision/32/351_2.png) [@x-ray\_vision](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/x-ray_vision)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2018, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-vitamins-minerals-can-you-space-out-and-which-are-important-on-hourly-daily-basis/824684/38 "2018-11-20T23:04:58Z")
> [@mikecurtis](#): > > Thank you for those studies. Very interesting. But, I have a couple of quibbles with you. > > The magnesium study does seem to suggest that Mg deficiency is more prevalent than most thought, but it still only places it at around 15% of the population What claim of mine does your “15% of the population” statement quibble with? Are you talking about the first paper I linked to? This is what is says regarding the “15% of the population”: > [@](#): > > In developed countries, **older data estimated** that the prevalence of marginal magnesium deficit is 15%–20% of the population. How does that “still” place it there? Some of that paper: > [@](#): > > the average magnesium intake in men and women in Taiwan is only 250 mg and 216 mg, respectively, or 68%–70% of the recommended dietary reference intake.17 The authors of the study concluded: ‘Taiwanese elderly persons had suboptimal levels of dietary magnesium intake, which although may be sufficient to avoid overt magnesium deficiency, may not be sufficient to reduce the risk of diabetes in the elderly’.17 The National Nutrition Survey in Japan found that for people 15–49 years old the intake of magnesium was below the Japanese RDA.18 Moreover, around half (48%) of the US population consumes less than the recommended amount of magnesium from food.19 The US Department of Agriculture states that the average magnesium intake in women and men is 228 mg/day and 323 mg/day, respectively. Based on these data, one group of authors noted: ‘These intake levels suggest that a substantial number of people may be at risk for Mg deficiency, especially if concomitant disorders and/or medications place the individual at further risk for Mg depletion’.7 The most recent published review on magnesium concluded: ‘Approximately 50% of Americans consume less than the Estimated Average Requirement (EAR) for magnesium, and some age groups consume substantially less’. > > … > > The data are consistent around the world that magnesium intake may be inadequate. Indeed, the intake of magnesium in Germany was determined to be only 200 mg for women and 250 mg for men.5 23 In Kiev a study on 780 men aged 20–59 found that the overall population consumed insufficient magnesium from food rations (10% less than the recommended value). The authors also found a correlation between the low magnesium consumption in food and the prevalence of risk factors for ischaemic heart disease, such as hyperlipoproteinaemia, arterial hypertension and body weight.24 In 2004, Durlach concluded: ‘About 20% of the population consumes less than two-thirds of the RDA for Mg. Women, particularly, have low intakes. For example, in France, 23% of women and 18% of men have inadequate intakes. Mg deficiency during pregnancy can induce maternal, fetal, and pediatric consequences that might last throughout life’.25 The median magnesium intake in an elderly population (832 subjects aged 70 years or older) in Southern France was also found to be below the RDA.26 Another French study on 2373 subjects (4–82 years of age) noted that 71.7% of men and 82.5% of women had an inadequate magnesium intake. One of the major points of the paper is that the percentages are likely to be underestimated due to the diffculty in diagnosing magnesium deficiency: > [@](#): > > ‘The existence of subacute or chronic magnesium deficiency is difficult to diagnose. Because the tissues damaged by magnesium depletion are those of the cardiovascular, renal and the neuromuscular systems, early damage is not readily detectable. It is postulated that long-term suboptimal intakes of magnesium may participate in the pathogenesis of chronic diseases of these systems’.88 > > Magnesium deficiency is extremely hard to diagnose since symptoms are generally non-specific, there are numerous contributing factors, and there is no simple easy way to diagnose magnesium deficiency. Skipping right to the conclusion: > [@](#): > > Go to: > Conclusion > Subclinical magnesium deficiency is a common and under-recognised problem throughout the world. Importantly, subclinical magnesium deficiency does not manifest as clinically apparent symptoms and thus is not easily recognised by the clinician. Despite this fact, subclinical magnesium deficiency likely leads to hypertension, arrhythmias, arterial calcifications, atherosclerosis, heart failure and an increased risk for thrombosis. This suggests that subclinical magnesium deficiency is a principal, yet under-recognised, driver of cardiovascular disease. A greater public health effort is needed to inform both the patient and clinician about the prevalence, harms and diagnosis of subclinical magnesium deficiency. > [@](#): > > As for the self reporting study; I read it opposite of the way you do. That knowledge of disease leads to an increase in the perceived health of an individual being negative. That is; if you know you have a disease you feel worse than if you don’t, \*\*not that if you don’t know you have a disease you feel fine. \*\* I didn’t make that claim in the bolded part above. The point I was making with the information therein is that it contradicts this statement of yours: _“If you have to ask whether or not you can are healthy; YOU ARE.”_ > [@mikecurtis](#): > > If you have to ask whether or not you can are healthy; YOU ARE. You will know when you are unhealthy, you body is not subtle in it’s communicating this point. > [@x-ray\_vision](#): > > It VERY often is subtle in communicating that point. In many cases, so subtle there are no symptoms recognized by the person. Yet, they drop dead one day from blocked coronary arteries or something else, or are surprised when a doc diagnoses them with a serious condition. > [@mikecurtis](#): > > People DO walk around with undiagnosed diseases, it is true. But I wouldn’t say “very often”. See what you did there? You changed “unhealthy” to “with undiagnosed diseases” and “VERY often is subtle in communicating that point” to “very often walking around with those diseases.” I am stating that your claim > [@](#): > > If you have to ask whether or not you can are healthy; YOU ARE. You will know when you are unhealthy, you body is not subtle in it’s communicating this point. is wrong. > [@](#): > > For example: It is estimated that 8 million Americans have heart disease and don’t even know it. And while that number may seem huge, it represents under 3% of the population. If you are walking around worrying that you have asymptomatic heart disease then you are causing yourself grief for no reason. This is off-topic as the topic of supplementation isn’t just regarding heart disease (why are you cherry-picking heart disease?)…but where did you get those numbers? And why compare by percentage of the total U.S. population and not just the adult population? Since you’re mentioning those that don’t know it, don’t you think those that do were once those that didn’t? I found the following: > [@](#): > > An estimated 15 million U.S. adults have coronary heart disease. > > … > > Approximately 84 million people in this country suffer from some form of cardiovascular disease, causing about 2,200 deaths a day, averaging one death every 40 seconds. > > Almost one out of every three deaths results from cardiovascular disease. [https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/healthlibrary/conditions/cardiovascular\_diseases/cardiovascular\_disease\_statistics\_85,P00243](https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/healthlibrary/conditions/cardiovascular_diseases/cardiovascular_disease_statistics_85,P00243) ---
**Author:** ![x-ray\_vision](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/x-ray_vision/32/351_2.png) [@x-ray\_vision](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/x-ray_vision)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2018, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-vitamins-minerals-can-you-space-out-and-which-are-important-on-hourly-daily-basis/824684/39 "2018-11-20T23:25:58Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > And if you’re deficient in some micronutrient because of malabsorbtion issues, then increasing your intake of the vitamin itself might not even help. True: > [@](#): > > Conclusions > Despite a near doubling of recorded fat-soluble vitamin supplementation over the past 5 years, there was no parallel increase in blood concentrations of these vitamins. Potential reasons include suboptimal dosages, low adherence, or ongoing issues with malabsorption. > **[Relationship Between Fat-Soluble Vitamin Supplementation and Blood...](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4201651/)** > > Pancreatic insufficiency is common in patients with cystic fibrosis (CF) and leads to malabsorption of fat-soluble vitamins. Multivitamins, including vitamins A, D, E, and K, are routinely prescribed to patients with CF to prevent vitamin... ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2018, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-vitamins-minerals-can-you-space-out-and-which-are-important-on-hourly-daily-basis/824684/40 "2018-11-21T00:22:15Z")
> [@dtilque](#): > > More specifically, EPO (erythropoietin) is a banned substance for professional athletes and some athletes have been sanctioned for its use. That put it in the headlines. It was also advertised on TV for a while, allegedly aimed at cancer patients (and it’s used for that) but most of the ads were on sports programs. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-vitamins-minerals-can-you-space-out-and-which-are-important-on-hourly-daily-basis/824684.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-vitamins-minerals-can-you-space-out-and-which-are-important-on-hourly-daily-basis/824684.md?page=3)