# Which way is up? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [October 20, 2012, 9:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-way-is-up/638310 "2012-10-20T09:22:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Ostrya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/35a633/32.png) [@Ostrya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ostrya)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2012, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-way-is-up/638310/21 "2012-10-20T22:40:24Z")
I have found myself over the years referring to compass directions when speaking of direction - North is up, South is down, and East and West are both referred to as “over”. If I am thinking of a town that is North I say “I am going up to such-and-such a town”. If going to Traverse City (50mi West) I inherently use the expression “over”. If I don’t know the direction, then “up”, “down” or “over” matter not. Because at that point I’m lost and anything’s game. Now I might go “under” a chainlink fence or “over” by that abandoned warehouse - until I can score and then find my way either up or down to get out of that dangerous neighborhood, make it safely home. ---
**Author:** ![Digital\_is\_the\_new\_Analog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a88e4f/32.png) [@Digital\_is\_the\_new\_Analog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Digital_is_the_new_Analog)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2012, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-way-is-up/638310/22 "2012-10-21T00:39:28Z")
> [@Lasciel](#): > > For a viewpoint that I honestly already expected to see: “Up” is always north. Sadly (for me), my mind doesn’t agree. South should be up. I struggle a bit when I have to use a map. Sigh. -D/a ---
**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2012, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-way-is-up/638310/23 "2012-10-21T00:40:56Z")
“Up” is “uptown”, which is of course the opposite of “downtown”, and therefore means “the direction in which the addresses get higher”. The only possible exception I can think of to this is if the street in question went obviously up/downhill, in which case “up” could mean “uphill”. In either case, it’s a bad way to give directions, when “left/right” is unambiguous. I would never expect a person asking for directions to know which way is “up town”. ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2012, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-way-is-up/638310/24 "2012-10-21T04:01:25Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > “Up” means go forward. Those directions are ambiguous unless Smith St. is one-way. But, according to the OP, you’re already going forward along Anderson Avenue, until you reach Smith Street, in which case you have a choice of going left or right. So whichever way you turn becomes the new “forward.” Or in other words, you almost always are driving forward from your point of view. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2012, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-way-is-up/638310/25 "2012-10-21T04:10:35Z")
> [@Cartooniverse](#): > > To me going up the street is going to the right at an intersection. Going down is going to the left. That’s just me. I’m weirdly wired. Probably because you move the turn signal up for a right turn and down for a left. ---
**Author:** ![Dereknocue67](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/6de8d8/32.png) [@Dereknocue67](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dereknocue67)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2012, 8:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-way-is-up/638310/26 "2012-10-21T08:00:06Z")
Before I tell people to either go “up” or “down” a street, I personally visit the area with a level to determine the street incline. If the street is level I simply tell them they cannot go up or down that particular street. They always ask why not? ---
**Author:** ![amarinth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3be4f8/32.png) [@amarinth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarinth)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2012, 9:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-way-is-up/638310/27 "2012-10-21T09:59:17Z")
I live in a city on hills. “Up” is moving from a lower altitude to a higher one. Generally if I give a direction to go “up a street,” it’s obvious which way that is, drop something spherical, see which direction it rolls, and go the other way. I wouldn’t use up or down if the street in question were flat. ---
**Author:** ![Battle\_Pope](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@Battle\_Pope](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Battle_Pope)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2012, 10:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-way-is-up/638310/28 "2012-10-21T10:04:24Z")
The Enemy’s gate is always down. So find that and you’re good to go. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2012, 10:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-way-is-up/638310/29 "2012-10-21T10:21:17Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > When someone gives you directions like “Go west on Anderson Avenue until you hit the light, then turn and go up Smith Street until you see the red house”, which way is “up”-left, or right? With those instructions, I would expect the junction to be a T, not a cross. So there’d only be one way to go on to Smith Street. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2012, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-way-is-up/638310/30 "2012-10-21T23:43:06Z")
Up means upstream, and down means downstream. All larger cities are built along rivers, right? Downtown is literally at a lower elevation than uptown. It’s particularly clear in the case of Manhattan. The river flows south, so up is north and down is south. The Battery’s down. In Cairo, conversely, up is south and down is north. ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2012, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-way-is-up/638310/31 "2012-10-22T02:20:06Z")
> [@Johanna](#): > > Up means upstream, and down means downstream. All larger cities are built along rivers, right? Downtown is literally at a lower elevation than uptown. It’s particularly clear in the case of Manhattan. The river flows south, so up is north and down is south. The Battery’s down. In Cairo, conversely, up is south and down is north. Los Angeles would be one glaring exception to this theory. Furthermore Portland Ore is at the junction of two rivers, if you are in NE Portland which way is up? ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2012, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-way-is-up/638310/32 "2012-10-22T02:38:00Z")
> [@Johanna](#): > > Up means upstream, and down means downstream. All larger cities are built along rivers, right? Downtown is literally at a lower elevation than uptown. It’s particularly clear in the case of Manhattan. The river flows south, so up is north and down is south. The Battery’s down. In Cairo, conversely, up is south and down is north. Don’t try that stuff in Chicago! [We make our rivers flow the way we want them to flow, elevation be dammed!](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicago_River#Reversing_the_flow) [Uptown](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uptown_Chicago)is indeed north of [Downtown](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Downtown_Chicago), though. But we have a huge chunk of the city that’s south of Downtown, so if you’re on the southside, you go up to go downtown (and up to go to Uptown). There’s also city north of Uptown, so sometimes you go down to go to Uptown. Luckily, there are many bars in Uptown, so you don’t mind the cognitive dissonance much. I live to the west of both Uptown and Downtown, so I go “over” to get to both. (Uptown is also, I believe, nowhere near either major branch of the river, so it’s a moot point anyhow.) ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2012, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-way-is-up/638310/33 "2012-10-22T03:13:57Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > When someone gives you directions like “Go west on Anderson Avenue until you hit the light, then turn and go up Smith Street until you see the red house”, which way is “up”-left, or right? To _me_, “go up Smith Street” or “go down Smith Street” or “go forward on Smith Street” or “go along Smith Street” all mean essentially the same thing. The OP’s directions would make sense to me if, and only if, there’s only one way it’s possible to turn onto Smith Street. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2012, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-way-is-up/638310/34 "2012-10-22T05:26:28Z")
> [@WhyNot](#): > > Uptown is also, I believe, nowhere near either major branch of the river That’s why it’s up! ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2012, 12:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-way-is-up/638310/35 "2012-10-22T12:07:07Z")
Some of these suggestions aren’t very helpful if you aren’t near a river and/or in a city, and if you are new to the neighborhood how do you know if the street numbers are going to be going up or down _before you make the turn in he first place?_ ---
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2012, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-way-is-up/638310/36 "2012-10-22T12:38:26Z")
> [@DCnDC](#): > > From those directions I would have to assume that either: > > [ul] > [li]the cross street is named differently in each direction, or[/li] > [li]Smith St. is one-way, or[/li] > [li]Smith St. begins at that intersection[/li][/ul] > > Otherwise it’s completely ambiguous and bad directions. Exactly this. ---
**Author:** ![Drain\_Bead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e47774/32.png) [@Drain\_Bead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drain_Bead)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2012, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-way-is-up/638310/37 "2012-10-22T15:44:58Z")
Up = North. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2012, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-way-is-up/638310/38 "2012-10-22T15:51:12Z")
In most of Spain, uphill. It’s a pretty hilly place, Spain. You don’t get to have all those sunny beaches surrounding a big not-so-flat mesa, with snow-capped mountains here and there, without a lot of slopes. In the US, I’d ask. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2012, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-way-is-up/638310/39 "2012-10-22T17:06:50Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > To _me_, “go up Smith Street” or “go down Smith Street” or “go forward on Smith Street” or “go along Smith Street” all mean essentially the same thing. The OP’s directions would make sense to me if, and only if, there’s only one way it’s possible to turn onto Smith Street. This. I have never, before this thread, thought that this was even a thing. ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2012, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-way-is-up/638310/40 "2012-10-22T17:12:58Z")
In Montreal, at least in the part south of the mountain, “up” straightforwardly means “uphill, i.e. away from the river,” which is also the direction in which the numbers get higher. Of course, the compass directions themselves are [a little quirky around here](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geography_of_Montreal#Street_directions). Incidentally, in French, you say _monter à Montréal_ and _descendre à Québec_ (go up to Montreal/go down to Quebec City). Why? Up and down _stream_, along the St. Lawrence. Of course if you were in Ottawa, you’d _descendre à Montréal_ (along the Ottawa River in this case), and if you were in Sainte-Anne-de-Beaupré you’d _monter à Québec_. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-way-is-up/638310.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-way-is-up/638310.md?page=3)