# Which would cause you more grief? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [December 25, 2023, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-would-cause-you-more-grief/995121 "2023-12-25T15:14:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2023, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-would-cause-you-more-grief/995121/1 "2023-12-25T15:14:51Z")
Apologies for a downer thread on xmas, but it came up today… One of my daughter’s nieces died last year after a couple of years of life spent in and out of hospital. Today her grandfather posted something on FB about his grief. Yes, his grief is his own however he wishes to experience and express it. But I was wondering which would have caused him more grief, if his granddaughter had: -been aborted when her profound conditions had been identified; -had she been allowed to die shortly after she was born; -had she lived 2 years with multiple surgeries, lengthy hospital stays, daily dialysis… I’m not questioning the choices that were made WRT this young child. I guess there was always SOME infinitesimal hope that the kid would live longer. I acknowledge that I am somewhat lacking in the compassion department, so I appreciate other folks’ insight as to how people experience and perceive emotions I seem to lack. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2023, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-would-cause-you-more-grief/995121/2 "2023-12-25T15:32:41Z")
In the overall scheme of losing a child (I know it wasn’t his child but I can only speak to what I know), those sort of what if’s just doesn’t matter to the amount of grief. This is like asking: Your hand is slowly being crushed by a press. Would it hurt more if -You have a sliver in your finger too -You also have a paper cut -You have a really bag hangnail digging into your skin > [@Dinsdale](#): > > so I appreciate other folks’ insight as to how people experience and perceive emotions I seem to lack. Thank God you don’t understand. No one can understand unless you experience it. It’s a club no one wants to join. ---
**Author:** ![xtenkfarpl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/c2a13f/32.png) [@xtenkfarpl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xtenkfarpl)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2023, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-would-cause-you-more-grief/995121/3 "2023-12-25T18:49:10Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > One of my daughter’s nieces died last year after a couple of years of life spent in and out of hospital. Today her grandfather posted something on FB about his grief. I can’t really predict about others’ grief. And thankfully I have never been in that situation. I would say it is probably kinder for all concerned that if a condition is clearly diagnosed in utero that will cause the child to not survive long after birth, it is best to terminate. ---
**Author:** ![TRC4941](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trc4941/32/6792_2.png) [@TRC4941](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TRC4941)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2023, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-would-cause-you-more-grief/995121/4 "2023-12-26T15:57:35Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > Thank God you don’t understand. No one can understand unless you experience it. It’s a club no one wants to join. That’s for sure. I’m in the club. When you are going through it, you always have hope. All you have is your faith, love and hope. The love you have for a child isn’t more or less based on its health. You will cling to those three until the bitter end. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2023, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-would-cause-you-more-grief/995121/5 "2023-12-26T23:58:46Z")
These are all decisions nobody ever wants to make. If you think it’s appropriate, you might want to tell the grandfather about Compassionate Friends, a secular organization made up of people who have experienced the death of a descendant, and therefore understand. They have sub-groups ranging from first-trimester pregnancy loss up to elderly parents who buried an elderly child. > **[Chapter Meeting Locator - Compassionate Friends](https://www.compassionatefriends.org/find-support/chapters/chapter-locator/?gclid=Cj0KCQiAkKqsBhC3ARIsAEEjuJjt2FYvRbaRcvjtNSqqMQvlqrnYvcNYzDar9OxV6BJMwtJLQ1k_UuQaAh0ZEALw_wcB)** > > The Compassionate Friends are glad to provide information on the nearest TCF chapter to you and offer both contact and meeting information. ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2023, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-would-cause-you-more-grief/995121/6 "2023-12-27T00:03:00Z")
I’m pretty sure you did this thread already about a year or so ago. ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2023, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-would-cause-you-more-grief/995121/7 "2023-12-27T00:41:16Z")
Yeah. Same story. I imagine Grand father will grieve for years. So don’t question that. Your other questions are silly. This child was born and did have a disease, and they did treatment for a time. It’s all moot. ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2023, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-would-cause-you-more-grief/995121/8 "2023-12-27T03:32:23Z")
Some of the replies in your earlier thread were very insightful. > [@Thoughts on a young child's death](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-on-a-young-childs-death/976235): > > My daughter’s niece (child of her husband’s sister) died today at age 2 1/2. She was born without a working kidney. Her kidneys were removed, and the past 2 1/2 years have been a continuous effort to get her to the point of receiving a kidney transplant. I think she spent her first year in the hospital, she has been on dialysis since day 1, and I could not estimate the number of major surgeries she had. She died after a series of surgeries and a week in PICU. I feel very sorry for the paren… (Meant as a reply to the OP, not myself) ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2023, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-would-cause-you-more-grief/995121/9 "2023-12-27T03:45:04Z")
> [@Beckdawrek](#): > > Your other questions are silly. > This child was born and did have a disease, and they did treatment for a time. I do not think they are silly in a philosophical sense. What is the humane thing to do? Is another choice inhumane or just a different choice that is neither better nor worse when all choices are bad? How will those choices affect people later? It’s an old debate. ---
**Author:** ![China\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@China\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/China_Guy)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2023, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-would-cause-you-more-grief/995121/10 "2023-12-27T05:19:53Z")
My youngest had a difficult birth (twin B with hypoxic issues) and was not clear she would make it through her first night. She did. She had special needs but was always a joy, and always made progress. That said, at 18 she was probably a 3rd grade level in most things, and would probably have never been able to live independently. She tragically passed away at age 18 almost a year ago today. Just 5 months shy of her most treasured goal of graduating high school. Serena was a real person. A happy bunny that brought joy to those around her. Including complete strangers. One of her favorite lines was to say to anyone wearing a dress, classmate, teacher, stranger in the supermarket, “you look like a princess.” Strangers would take a second or three to process the young lady; diction, pronunciation, posture, etc just a little off, and 99 times out of 100 would beam and say “thank you!” What the OP asks is an impossible scenario. That said, based on my experience, I would go with option one and aborted when profound conditions were recognized. For Serena, this was not the scenario. It was a twin birth with a late 30’s mother, so considered high risk but otherwise no abnormalities. I would not vote for option B, as then it would be the joy of birth and breath of life combined with knowing it would be for just a short while. Far short of when the baby would become a little person, with an obvious personality, starting to walk and talk back, etc. IMHO, option C would be the most selfish. Does not consider the quality of life for the child during those few years. Does not consider the horrific emotional toll on the parents and caregivers. As a father, that would be an unthinkable existence hoping against all hope that things would be “normal” yet knowing that miracles like that happen only in Hallmark Christmas movies. For no rational hope that your child could thrive for a happy extended life would be torture. YMMV, and I really wish I was not able to comment based on experience. ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2023, 5:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-would-cause-you-more-grief/995121/11 "2023-12-27T05:57:20Z")
Yes. Old debate. But the OP is asking about a particular child. Her grandfather’s grief. Twice. I assumed, maybe in my own silliness, that’s why he wanted opinions on the deeper questions. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2023, 6:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-would-cause-you-more-grief/995121/12 "2023-12-27T06:43:14Z")
> [@China\_Guy](#): > > What the OP asks is an impossible scenario. That said, based on my experience, I would go with option one and aborted when profound conditions were recognized. The best out of three sad choices. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2023, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-would-cause-you-more-grief/995121/13 "2023-12-27T12:58:58Z")
Tremendous apologies for posting a thread similar to one I posted a year ago. The new thread was prompted by a FB posting on xmas day. I also apologize for forcing anyone to read either/both of my posts. I’ll ask the mods to close this thread. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2023, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-would-cause-you-more-grief/995121/14 "2023-12-27T13:25:06Z")
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**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2023, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-would-cause-you-more-grief/995121/15 "2023-12-27T13:27:08Z")
Closed at op’s request.