# Which would hurt humanity more - the loss of the Sistine Chapel or the loss of the Parthenon? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [February 25, 2012, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-would-hurt-humanity-more-the-loss-of-the-sistine-chapel-or-the-loss-of-the-parthenon/613963 "2012-02-25T15:52:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Ms\_Boods](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5e9695/32.png) [@Ms\_Boods](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ms_Boods)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2012, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-would-hurt-humanity-more-the-loss-of-the-sistine-chapel-or-the-loss-of-the-parthenon/613963/21 "2012-02-26T20:33:47Z")
It annoys the heck out of me that the Christians tore apart Roman temples and buildings to put up the churches in the first place, so not only would I cheer on a meteorite aimed at the Lateran/Vatican, I hope that Sulla\* is riding it, Slim Picken’s style, all the way down to ground zero. I get really het up when I lecture on the removal of the Altar of Victory and the Christian emperors closing up the temples and shutting down the games, and arrgghhhh :mad: Don’t get me started on Hypatia. (On the other hand, the fifth century Athenians get up my back up, too. People, you do not launch an expedition to Sicily in the middle of a major war, nor do you decide that building a goofy temple – the Erechtheion – is a good idea when you’re broke because of said war. You know how, in _Addams Family Values_, when Debby can’t stop laughing while rehearsing her speech to the police – assuming she’s going to find poor Fester in the ruins of the house she blew up – ? That’s me when I get to the battle of Charonaea…) Can we blow up both, and save the Coliseum? \*Yes, of course, I know he’s Late Republic, and I suppose the go-to guy would porbably be Julian, but I like Sulla’s response to the archons in Athens when they scolded him for bringing soldiers to town. ---
**Author:** ![Don\_t\_Panic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/don_t_panic/32/398_2.png) [@Don\_t\_Panic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_t_Panic)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2012, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-would-hurt-humanity-more-the-loss-of-the-sistine-chapel-or-the-loss-of-the-parthenon/613963/22 "2012-02-26T20:55:41Z")
> [@Zsofia](#): > > There’s not a crazy lot of the Parthenon _there_. I’ll keep the chapel just because it’s so much more complete. Exactly. The Parthenon is pretty much done for already anyway. When I visited Athens a couple of years ago, I was stunned at how bad a shape the entire Acropolis really is in - it’s mostly just a pile of rubble at this point. What’s more, some of the parts that look well preserved, like the caryatids on the [Erechtheion](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erechtheion), are actually replicas. The most interesting stuff is all taken to the Acropolis museum at the foot of the hill, or even hauled off to the British Museum. So, off to the Vatican. Do I have restrict myself to \*just \*the Sistine Chapel, though? I’d very much like to save the entire Vatican Museum and St. Peter’s as well, while I’m there. It’s all one big complex of buildings. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2012, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-would-hurt-humanity-more-the-loss-of-the-sistine-chapel-or-the-loss-of-the-parthenon/613963/23 "2012-02-26T21:03:52Z")
Hurt humanity? Isn’t that kind of overstating things a little? We’ve lost all kinds of ancient wonders of the world throughout the midst of time. I’m sure to those who knew about them, it sucked. But to humanity? ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2012, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-would-hurt-humanity-more-the-loss-of-the-sistine-chapel-or-the-loss-of-the-parthenon/613963/24 "2012-02-26T22:07:12Z")
Didn’t realize the Michelangelo work was in the SC, that sways my vote from ‘I don’t know’ to save the SC and move the Parthenon to a save location and perhaps move it back after. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2012, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-would-hurt-humanity-more-the-loss-of-the-sistine-chapel-or-the-loss-of-the-parthenon/613963/25 "2012-02-27T23:29:39Z")
There is a bit of an ambiguity in the question. Is the whole of the Vatican threatened, or only the Sistine Chapel, which is one tiny part of the whole complex? I agree with **IvoryTowerDenizen** : the Parthenon relates to the distant past, whereas the Sistine Chapel is much more recent. In the same sort of way, although I’d hate to lose any of these, I would preserve the Colosseum before the Eiffel Tower, or Stonehenge before the Colosseum. (Age isn’t the only criterion, of course!) ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Kobayashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4af34b/32.png) [@Mr.Kobayashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Kobayashi)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2012, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-would-hurt-humanity-more-the-loss-of-the-sistine-chapel-or-the-loss-of-the-parthenon/613963/26 "2012-02-28T00:01:33Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > There is a bit of an ambiguity in the question. Is the whole of the Vatican threatened, or only the Sistine Chapel, which is one tiny part of the whole complex? The Sistine Chapel itself is reduced to a smoking crater, completely wiped out, but the Apostolic Palace and surrounding area would be more lightly damaged too. Likewise the Acropolis would be damaged if the Parthenon is hit. @ **monstro** ; both are invaluable cultural relics, the destruction of either would be an irreplaceable loss to all humankind. They say things about who we were and are. @ **kanicbird** ; you can’t dissemble them, move them and replace later - no time! Plus that’s cheating. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2012, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-would-hurt-humanity-more-the-loss-of-the-sistine-chapel-or-the-loss-of-the-parthenon/613963/27 "2012-02-28T01:40:04Z")
Thank Og we were able to disassemble and reassemble Abu Simbel… In practice, both the Sistine Chapel and the Parthenon have been photographed in sufficient detail to create virtual 3-D graphic “walk thought” sims, so, even if they were magically to disappear _right now_ (!) they wouldn’t be lost. (And, as noted, there’s at least one reproduction Parthenon. I hadn’t know this. This is so way mighty doggone cool! I know I’ll never travel to Greece, but I _might_ some day get as far as Nashville!) I think, technically, in terms of information theory, the Sistine Chapel would take more Gigabytes of data to simulate – it’s more complex, “richer” in detail – and so it would represent the greater objective loss of human knowledge. (Is there, anywhere online, a 3-D walk through of various famous places such as these? I remember reading about a 3-D sim of the Al Aqsa Mosque in Jerusalem, and also one that reproduced a Univac computer room…with a working “sim” Univac computer! Where do we go to walk through such sims? Google Earth has a few somewhat nifty low-res ones.) ---
**Author:** ![akennett](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ee59a6/32.png) [@akennett](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/akennett)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2012, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-would-hurt-humanity-more-the-loss-of-the-sistine-chapel-or-the-loss-of-the-parthenon/613963/28 "2012-02-28T01:44:10Z")
Wait, we can let the meteorite destroy some of the Vatican? Fuck yeah! That makes it a coin flip between saving the ruins or doing nothing…how much does the laser cost to fire? (Or better yet, is there any way we can redirect the Athenian meteorite to the Vatican as well? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2012, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-would-hurt-humanity-more-the-loss-of-the-sistine-chapel-or-the-loss-of-the-parthenon/613963/29 "2012-02-28T01:52:13Z")
We can’t stop the Parthenon from being destroyed, because it’s _already_ destroyed. And being a ruin hasn’t hurt its value as a tourist attraction any. I’ll bet just as many tourists would go see the crater where it used to be. ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2012, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-would-hurt-humanity-more-the-loss-of-the-sistine-chapel-or-the-loss-of-the-parthenon/613963/30 "2012-02-28T02:34:59Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > (Is there, anywhere online, a 3-D walk through of various famous places such as these? I remember reading about a 3-D sim of the Al Aqsa Mosque in Jerusalem, and also one that reproduced a Univac computer room…with a working “sim” Univac computer! Where do we go to walk through such sims? Google Earth has a few somewhat nifty low-res ones.) I know you can view a replica of the Sistine Chapel and various other famous sites in [Second Life](http://secondlife.com/). ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2012, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-would-hurt-humanity-more-the-loss-of-the-sistine-chapel-or-the-loss-of-the-parthenon/613963/31 "2012-02-28T03:02:50Z")
> [@Mr.Kobayashi](#): > > @ **monstro** ; both are invaluable cultural relics, the destruction of either would be an irreplaceable loss to all humankind. They say things about who we were and are. Well, of course. But so are all the other things of olde that have been destroyed and aren’t even in our consciousness. Like I said, it will hurt those who care about those things. But humanity will not be hurt. Most humans will not feel anything because most are trying to find food to eat and get through another day of drudgery. And people of the future will not know what they have missed. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2012, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-would-hurt-humanity-more-the-loss-of-the-sistine-chapel-or-the-loss-of-the-parthenon/613963/32 "2012-02-28T03:07:17Z")
The Parthenon is a dump. Trash it. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2012, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-would-hurt-humanity-more-the-loss-of-the-sistine-chapel-or-the-loss-of-the-parthenon/613963/33 "2012-02-28T04:57:47Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > . . . Like I said, it will hurt those who care about those things. But humanity will not be hurt. . . . Since those of us who care about such things are part of humanity, then, yes, to that degree, humanity would be hurt. Neither of the two examples would cause as much real harm as, say, the loss of the Library at Alexandria. But the loss of information is a real loss to humanity. ---
**Author:** ![Jragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jragon)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2012, 5:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-would-hurt-humanity-more-the-loss-of-the-sistine-chapel-or-the-loss-of-the-parthenon/613963/34 "2012-02-28T05:52:13Z")
I think there’d be more of an uproar if the Sistine Chapel was destroyed, what given the religious following of Christianity vs Athena. I like the Parthenon more, but I just think it makes more sense to preserve the chapel if for no reason other than quelling an uproar. I’d rather a bunch of gruff Ancient Grecophile archaeologists than the (admittedly probably pretty small) glut of annoying christian people that protest because we chose to save a dilapidated, pagan temple instead of a CHURCH. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2012, 6:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-would-hurt-humanity-more-the-loss-of-the-sistine-chapel-or-the-loss-of-the-parthenon/613963/35 "2012-02-28T06:45:52Z")
> [@Steken](#): > > I’ve got one word for you. Just one word. Michelangelo. > > So yeah, Sistine Chapel all the way. This. I have no love for the Catholic Church, but the Sistine Chapel is a monument to human genius. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2012, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-would-hurt-humanity-more-the-loss-of-the-sistine-chapel-or-the-loss-of-the-parthenon/613963/36 "2012-02-28T14:48:25Z")
I’ve seen the Sistine Chapel, and would truly mourn its demise. But I haven’t been to Athens yet, and the way things are going in Greece, I may never see it . . . so keep the Parthenon, and maybe someday I’ll get to it. And I’m wondering . . . if the Sistine Chapel is hit, do we know where the Pope might be? ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Kobayashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4af34b/32.png) [@Mr.Kobayashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Kobayashi)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2012, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-would-hurt-humanity-more-the-loss-of-the-sistine-chapel-or-the-loss-of-the-parthenon/613963/37 "2012-02-28T15:35:02Z")
> [@panache45](#): > > And I’m wondering . . . if the Sistine Chapel is hit, do we know where the Pope might be? He’s with the rest of the evacuees. Regardless of what is hit there will be zero casualties. ---
**Author:** ![Moonlitherial](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4bbf92/32.png) [@Moonlitherial](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moonlitherial)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2012, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-would-hurt-humanity-more-the-loss-of-the-sistine-chapel-or-the-loss-of-the-parthenon/613963/38 "2012-02-28T17:20:00Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > (Is there, anywhere online, a 3-D walk through of various famous places such as these? I remember reading about a 3-D sim of the Al Aqsa Mosque in Jerusalem, and also one that reproduced a Univac computer room…with a working “sim” Univac computer! Where do we go to walk through such sims? Google Earth has a few somewhat nifty low-res ones.) Neither of the OP’s selections is on the list but Google streetview has inside tours of many sites now. Here’s the [Palace of Versaille](http://www.gearthhacks.com/streetview/file.php?fileid=11614) ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2012, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-would-hurt-humanity-more-the-loss-of-the-sistine-chapel-or-the-loss-of-the-parthenon/613963/39 "2012-02-28T17:25:17Z")
The Vatican has more than enough money to restore the Sistine Chapel. The Greek government doesn’t have enough money to build a plastic replica of the Parthenon. Just saying. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2012, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-would-hurt-humanity-more-the-loss-of-the-sistine-chapel-or-the-loss-of-the-parthenon/613963/40 "2012-02-28T17:49:25Z")
Two words: bidding war. 😛 On a more serious note, if there’s no risk of a third rock that needs blasting before the defence laser is back online I’d save the Parthenon, more out of antipathy for the Catholic Church than anything else. If nothing else, at least Greece is more likely to give me the credit instead of God. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-would-hurt-humanity-more-the-loss-of-the-sistine-chapel-or-the-loss-of-the-parthenon/613963.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-would-hurt-humanity-more-the-loss-of-the-sistine-chapel-or-the-loss-of-the-parthenon/613963.md?page=3)