# While the media runs through another Bush-bashing frenzy, the main point is ignored. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 10, 2003, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/while-the-media-runs-through-another-bush-bashing-frenzy-the-main-point-is-ignored/187486 "2003-07-10T15:37:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2003, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/while-the-media-runs-through-another-bush-bashing-frenzy-the-main-point-is-ignored/187486/81 "2003-07-17T16:18:35Z")
And can’t forget [this](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A5164-2003Jul17.html?nav=hptop_ts), which is pretty much what I figured. If borne out, it would win my hypothetical bet with **GOM** directly: > [@](#): > > CIA Director George Tenet told members of Congress a White House official insisted that President Bush’s State of the Union address include an assertion about Saddam Hussein’s nuclear intentions that had not been verified, a Senate Intelligence Committee member said Thursday. ---
**Author:** ![blowero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/41988e/32.png) [@blowero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blowero)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2003, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/while-the-media-runs-through-another-bush-bashing-frenzy-the-main-point-is-ignored/187486/82 "2003-07-17T19:23:39Z")
> [@](#): > > ## \*Originally posted by RTFirefly \* \*\*And can’t forget [this](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A5164-2003Jul17.html?nav=hptop_ts), which is pretty much what I figured. If borne out, it would win my hypothetical bet with **GOM** directly: quote: > > ## CIA Director George Tenet told members of Congress a White House official insisted that President Bush’s State of the Union address include an assertion about Saddam Hussein’s nuclear intentions that had not been verified, a Senate Intelligence Committee member said Thursday. > > \*\* Here’s a cite where you don’t have to register: > **[Yahoo News - Latest News & Headlines](https://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=514&e=4&u=%2Fap%2F20030717%2Fap_on_go_co%2Fus_iraq_49)** > > The latest news and headlines from Yahoo! News. Get breaking news stories and in-depth coverage with videos and photos. **SamStone** : > [@](#): > > Now, maybe it did happen the way you guys say. Maybe Tenet was browbeaten into finally giving the OK, and is now being made the fall guy. Are you ready to believe yet?😉 ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2003, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/while-the-media-runs-through-another-bush-bashing-frenzy-the-main-point-is-ignored/187486/83 "2003-07-17T19:32:43Z")
Robert Joseph ahs been named as the one who was “bound and determined” to make sure that the Iraq-uranium-Africa bit stayed in the SotU address. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2003, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/while-the-media-runs-through-another-bush-bashing-frenzy-the-main-point-is-ignored/187486/84 "2003-07-17T19:42:13Z")
> [@](#): > > **[Durbin Says W.House Pushed for Disputed Iraq Charge](http://reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=politicsNews&storyID=3109739)** > > Durbin would not name the person, whose name emerged in the secret hearing, but a U.S. official said National Security Council weapons of mass destruction expert Robert Joseph was involved in discussions with the CIA about the speech. > > “It wasn’t Tenet who named anyone, but in response to questioning, other agency officials said that the conversations were with Robert Joseph of the National Security Council staff,” a U.S. official told Reuters on condition of anonymity. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2003, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/while-the-media-runs-through-another-bush-bashing-frenzy-the-main-point-is-ignored/187486/85 "2003-07-17T23:56:18Z")
What, another fall guy already? Who’s _this_ one shielding? ---
**Author:** ![GOM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/5f9b8f/32.png) [@GOM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GOM)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2003, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/while-the-media-runs-through-another-bush-bashing-frenzy-the-main-point-is-ignored/187486/86 "2003-07-18T17:13:39Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by blowero \* > \*\*Geez, do you just take everything the government says at face value? \*\* LOL Apparently our internet paths must not have crossed before… 😉 ---
**Author:** ![blowero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/41988e/32.png) [@blowero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blowero)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2003, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/while-the-media-runs-through-another-bush-bashing-frenzy-the-main-point-is-ignored/187486/87 "2003-07-18T17:35:39Z")
Sorry, I don’t get your reference, GOM.😕 ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2003, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/while-the-media-runs-through-another-bush-bashing-frenzy-the-main-point-is-ignored/187486/88 "2003-07-18T17:58:33Z")
Ask him for a cite. ---
**Author:** ![Chicago\_Faucet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chicago_faucet/32/13910_2.png) [@Chicago\_Faucet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chicago_Faucet)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2003, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/while-the-media-runs-through-another-bush-bashing-frenzy-the-main-point-is-ignored/187486/89 "2003-07-18T18:17:09Z")
**While the media runs through another Bush-bashing frenzy, the main point is ignored.** I want to jump start this discussion again, by hijacking it. The main point is not who supplied the information, correct or not, or even if the information really is correct or not. The main point is UN Resoluntion 1441. Remember this? This was the whole point of going to war in Iraq in the first place. This one suspect piece of information is a drop in the bucket, a needle in the haystack, compared to all of the other intelligence against Saddam’s regime. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2003, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/while-the-media-runs-through-another-bush-bashing-frenzy-the-main-point-is-ignored/187486/90 "2003-07-18T18:35:43Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Chicago Faucet \* > \*\* > The main point is UN Resoluntion 1441. > \*\* Aannhh. Thank you for playing. The UNSC was already enforcing UNSC 1441 to their satisfaction. Please try again. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2003, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/while-the-media-runs-through-another-bush-bashing-frenzy-the-main-point-is-ignored/187486/91 "2003-07-18T18:39:40Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Chicago Faucet \* > \*\* > This one suspect piece of information is a drop in the bucket, a needle in the haystack, compared to all of the other intelligence against Saddam’s regime. \*\* The question is about how well the evidence was presented. ---
**Author:** ![Chicago\_Faucet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chicago_faucet/32/13910_2.png) [@Chicago\_Faucet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chicago_Faucet)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2003, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/while-the-media-runs-through-another-bush-bashing-frenzy-the-main-point-is-ignored/187486/92 "2003-07-18T18:47:24Z")
The UNSC was not enforcing Resolution 1441 to their satisfaction. And this evidence, as minor as it was, was not presented very well. No need to be so snotty. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2003, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/while-the-media-runs-through-another-bush-bashing-frenzy-the-main-point-is-ignored/187486/93 "2003-07-18T19:04:36Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Chicago Faucet \* > The UNSC was not enforcing Resolution 1441 to their satisfaction. Bullstuff. To quickly recap: Colin Powell went before the UN and pleaded for them to support a war with Iraq because of Iraq’s alleged violations of 1441. The Security Council replied, “we’re not convinced that Iraq is in violation, so we don’t want to go to war. Let’s let Hans Blix keep looking to see if there are any violations or not.” Bush, unhappy with this result, then started tooting about his “Coalition of the Willing” and _went around_ the UN. Don’t tell me you forgot all this already? Or do you truly feel that George W. Bush knows more about how the UN Security Council feels than the UN Security Council itself? ---
**Author:** ![Chicago\_Faucet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chicago_faucet/32/13910_2.png) [@Chicago\_Faucet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chicago_Faucet)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2003, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/while-the-media-runs-through-another-bush-bashing-frenzy-the-main-point-is-ignored/187486/94 "2003-07-18T19:36:03Z")
Not only does GWB know more about UNSC than the UNSC, but so does everyone else. Resolution 1441 was a very broad document, which Iraq and Saddam’s regime violated several points of. This isn’t a gray area. ---
**Author:** ![blowero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/41988e/32.png) [@blowero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blowero)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2003, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/while-the-media-runs-through-another-bush-bashing-frenzy-the-main-point-is-ignored/187486/95 "2003-07-18T19:37:16Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Chicago Faucet \* > The main point is UN Resoluntion 1441. Resolution 1441: [http://www.dalebroux.com/assemblage/2002-11-08UNResolution1441.asp](http://www.dalebroux.com/assemblage/2002-11-08UNResolution1441.asp) Here is the action specified in the resolution: > [@](#): > > 1. DECIDES, while acknowledging paragraph 1 above, to afford Iraq, by this resolution, a final opportunity to comply with its disarmament obligations under relevant resolutions of the council; and accordingly decides to set up an enhanced inspection regime with the aim of bringing to full and verified completion the disarmament process established by resolution 687 (1991) and subsequent resolutions of the council; Isn’t that what was being done _before_ the U.S. invasion? In fact, weren’t the inspectors _forced_ to leave by the pending U.S. invasion? So didn’t we in fact _prevent_ 1441 from being enforced? I’d like you to read through the entire resolution, and identify exactly where you think it authorizes the U.S. invasion, because I sure don’t see it anywhere in there. > [@](#): > > This one suspect piece of information is a drop in the bucket, a needle in the haystack, compared to all of the other intelligence against Saddam’s regime. WHAT other intelligence? Name ONE piece of evidence cited by the Bush Administration as justification for the war that has turned out to be correct. ---
**Author:** ![Chicago\_Faucet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chicago_faucet/32/13910_2.png) [@Chicago\_Faucet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chicago_Faucet)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2003, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/while-the-media-runs-through-another-bush-bashing-frenzy-the-main-point-is-ignored/187486/96 "2003-07-18T19:57:23Z")
If you would actually read Resolution 1441, you would see that it is a continuation of a whole series of other resolutions, starting with Resolution 661, then 678, 686, 687, etc… 1. Oil for food program. This was treated as a farce by Iraq. 2. Importing/Exporting embargo on Iraq. They blatantly disregarded this. You asked for one. There’s two. ---
**Author:** ![Chicago\_Faucet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chicago_faucet/32/13910_2.png) [@Chicago\_Faucet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chicago_Faucet)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2003, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/while-the-media-runs-through-another-bush-bashing-frenzy-the-main-point-is-ignored/187486/97 "2003-07-18T20:50:07Z")
In addition to those, from Resolution 1205, under Resolution 1441: Noting with alarm the decision of Iraq on 31 October 1998 to cease cooperation with the United Nations Special Commission, and its continued restrictions on the work of the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA), Noting the letters from the Deputy Executive Chairman of the Special Commission of 31 October 1998 (S/1998/1023) and from the Executive Chairman of the Special Commission of 2 November 1998 (S/1998/1032) to the President of the Security Council, which reported to the Council the decision by Iraq and described the implications of that decision for the work of the Special Commission, and noting also the letter from the Director General of the IAEA of 3 November 1998 (S/1998/1033, annex) which described the implications of the decision for the work of the IAEA, Determined to ensure immediate and full compliance by Iraq without conditions or restrictions with its obligations under resolution 687 (1991) of 3 April 1991 and the other relevant resolutions, This was from 1998, and was never resolved. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2003, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/while-the-media-runs-through-another-bush-bashing-frenzy-the-main-point-is-ignored/187486/98 "2003-07-18T20:57:08Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Chicago Faucet \* > \*\*The UNSC was not enforcing Resolution 1441 to their satisfaction. \*\* If the UNSC wasn’t satisfied with their enforcement of the resolution, why didn’t they vote to do something about it? They were content to accept what was happening already. Furthermore, UNSC resolutions aren’t evidence. Try again, again. ---
**Author:** ![Spavined\_Gelding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/958977/32.png) [@Spavined\_Gelding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spavined_Gelding)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2003, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/while-the-media-runs-through-another-bush-bashing-frenzy-the-main-point-is-ignored/187486/99 "2003-07-18T21:08:23Z")
Is it your position, **Chicago** , that the United States has the privilege of unilaterally going to war to enforce a UN resolution that the Security Council is on record as saying they don’t want enforced by military measures? If so, do you appreciate the implications of your position? If the US has that privilege can the same privilege be denied to any other nation state that decides that it doesn’t much like the way the UN conducts its own business. And while we are at it, I have no recollection of the President or any other official, elected or appointed, taking the position that the manipulation of the oil for food program was a cause for war. ---
**Author:** ![zoo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/71c47a/32.png) [@zoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoo)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2003, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/while-the-media-runs-through-another-bush-bashing-frenzy-the-main-point-is-ignored/187486/100 "2003-07-18T21:19:59Z")
Where are December, Airman Doors and John Mace? Are they posting on this topic within another thread? I do enjoy the posts I read from them. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/while-the-media-runs-through-another-bush-bashing-frenzy-the-main-point-is-ignored/187486.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/while-the-media-runs-through-another-bush-bashing-frenzy-the-main-point-is-ignored/187486.md?page=6)