# Whisky Tango Foxtrot!!! Shooting at the Holocaust Museum **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 10, 2009, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whisky-tango-foxtrot-shooting-at-the-holocaust-museum/499363 "2009-06-10T17:56:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![NDP](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ndp/32/55_2.png) [@NDP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NDP)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2009, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whisky-tango-foxtrot-shooting-at-the-holocaust-museum/499363/101 "2009-06-11T03:31:48Z")
[QUOTE=Stephe96] Never said he was “inspired” by anyone. But is it possible that Obama’s spiritual mentor contributed to this current atmosphere of hatred against Jews? [/QUOTE] > [@yanceylebeef](#): > > The stupid is strong with this one! And remember, [DNFTT](http://img1.abload.de/img/obvious_troll5r0.jpg). ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2009, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whisky-tango-foxtrot-shooting-at-the-holocaust-museum/499363/102 "2009-06-11T04:31:12Z")
> [@Stephe96](#): > > I wonder if… To answer your questions, that Department of Homeland Security report on right-wing hate groups need to be reopened, and then redone with about a thousand times more heavy-duty rectal-probing of the ringleaders. ---
**Author:** ![Dissonance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/85f322/32.png) [@Dissonance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dissonance)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2009, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whisky-tango-foxtrot-shooting-at-the-holocaust-museum/499363/103 "2009-06-11T04:52:54Z")
> [@ghardester](#): > > Wow! I just got a surreal feeling. I have read 2 pages of posts on the SDMB about a shooting and it hasn’t devolved into a 2nd amendment/gun control rant yet. Perhaps the utter fucking lunacy of trying to pin this on Obama deflected it? > [@Declan](#): > > So volunteering for PT boats would be a ticket to the pacific war. Not really, US PT boats operated in the English Channel and the Mediterranean. ---
**Author:** ![chique](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@chique](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chique)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2009, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whisky-tango-foxtrot-shooting-at-the-holocaust-museum/499363/104 "2009-06-11T05:07:34Z")
> [@Kalhoun](#): > > I wish I could say I enjoyed my visit. There is an AWFUL lot to absorb, and too many pushing crowds to do it justice. It needs to be twice as big and open 24/7. I’m sorry, this is off topic, but it struck a memory chord. I lived in DC when the museum opened and remember reading something in the WaPo. The shaky elevators and overcrowded start of the tour (remember how it opened up as you went along til at the end you were practically alone?) is intentional. It’s to invoke a sort of claustrophobic feeling as if you were jammed into a cattle car. I knew about it going in which I think unsettled me even more. ---
**Author:** ![NinjaChick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/71c47a/32.png) [@NinjaChick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NinjaChick)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2009, 6:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whisky-tango-foxtrot-shooting-at-the-holocaust-museum/499363/105 "2009-06-11T06:08:07Z")
I really can’t come up with anything to say about this other than “Well, fuck.” ---
**Author:** ![Declan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecae2f/32.png) [@Declan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Declan)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2009, 6:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whisky-tango-foxtrot-shooting-at-the-holocaust-museum/499363/106 "2009-06-11T06:53:17Z")
> [@Dissonance](#): > > Not really, US PT boats operated in the English Channel and the Mediterranean. Okay thats a new one for me , I did not realize that. I was under the assumption that the Royal Navy pretty much handled that. Anyways , it was more the four battle stars that he says he recieved on his website, which suggested the pacific, however the navy says that he enlisted as an EM in april of 42, and then went Naval reserve almost a year later. Sorta makes me wonder if his biography is heavy on colesterol. Declan ---
**Author:** ![PlainJain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/5daacb/32.png) [@PlainJain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PlainJain)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2009, 8:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whisky-tango-foxtrot-shooting-at-the-holocaust-museum/499363/107 "2009-06-11T08:10:44Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > I can’t decide whether that statement is sweetly naive or terribly disingenuous. Sweetly naive, I guess. (Sorry late) Seriously, I get the “Jew” hate ( I don’t agree, but I understand the argument), but the museum? Who at the museum is a threat? (Skald, I’m ‘white and free’ but I am NOT disingenuous. I don’t have your insight but I don’t understand what shooting up a museum would accomplish. Surely there are better “jew” organizations to hit. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2009, 10:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whisky-tango-foxtrot-shooting-at-the-holocaust-museum/499363/108 "2009-06-11T10:02:13Z")
One might assume that a Holocaust Musem would be full of Jews and “Jew-lovers”. If that’s who you want to kill, it would be a good place to find them. Besides, it’s a high-profile place, as is evident by the media reaction. Terrorists thrive on attention. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2009, 11:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whisky-tango-foxtrot-shooting-at-the-holocaust-museum/499363/109 "2009-06-11T11:15:23Z")
> [@Merijeek](#): > > Negroes are the footsoldiers for the jews, you know. “The Jew is using the Black as muscle against you.” The shooter wasn’t from Illinois, was he? ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2009, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whisky-tango-foxtrot-shooting-at-the-holocaust-museum/499363/110 "2009-06-11T12:51:51Z")
> [@suranyi](#): > > Less than two months ago there was a thread in which several people commented that there was not much anti-Semitism nowadays: > > [What's With All The Jew Hate? - Great Debates - Straight Dope Message Board](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=515073) > > Believe me, it’s still around. In 88-year-olds. Everyone else is shaking their heads in disbelief, which would be another story if it were against people of a different melanin content, which we understand on a visceral level even if many of us don’t believe in it. The vast majority of people in America don’t even understand anti-semitism much less believe in it. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2009, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whisky-tango-foxtrot-shooting-at-the-holocaust-museum/499363/111 "2009-06-11T13:03:33Z")
> [@suranyi](#): > > Less than two months ago there was a thread in which several people commented that there was not much anti-Semitism nowadays: > > [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/...d.php?t=515073](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/...d.php?t=515073) > > Believe me, it’s still around. [QUOTE=Ludovic] In 88-year-olds. Everyone else is shaking their heads in disbelief [/QUOTE] We gotta debate this “sweetly naive” versus “terribly disingenuous” thing all over again? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2009, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whisky-tango-foxtrot-shooting-at-the-holocaust-museum/499363/112 "2009-06-11T13:08:58Z")
> [@](#): > > “The responsible white separatist community condemns this,” he said. “It makes us look bad.” John de Nugent, a white separatist and friend of James von Brunn, quoted in this morning’s Washington Post. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2009, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whisky-tango-foxtrot-shooting-at-the-holocaust-museum/499363/113 "2009-06-11T13:18:15Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > In 88-year-olds. Everyone else is shaking their heads in disbelief, which would be another story if it were against people of a different melanin content, which we understand on a visceral level even if many of us don’t believe in it. > > The vast majority of people in America don’t even understand anti-semitism much less believe in it. The problem is that it only takes a few wackjobs who really believe in it to cause a certain amount of paranoia for Jews, which is something non-Jews do not experience - it is expressed mostly in low level harrasment like having gravestones kicked over and swastikas spray-painted on synagogues, but very rarely breaks out into actual terrorism - meaning that Jewish places of worship, daycare centres and the like have to be somewhat more security-concious than non-Jewish ones. It isn’t all about the 88 year olds - there are lots of neo-Nazi skinhead types who are younger than that. I certainly imagine Blacks have it worse with KKK types firebombing churches in some places in the US, but here in Canada that’s somewhat less of a factor. In my city of Toronto, Jews are the #1 target for hate crimes, beating out Blacks, gays or Muslims: [http://www.torontosun.com/news/torontoandgta/2009/05/20/9508881-sun.html](http://www.torontosun.com/news/torontoandgta/2009/05/20/9508881-sun.html) ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2009, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whisky-tango-foxtrot-shooting-at-the-holocaust-museum/499363/114 "2009-06-11T13:21:18Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > One might assume that a Holocaust Musem would be full of Jews and “Jew-lovers”. If that’s who you want to kill, it would be a good place to find them. > > Besides, it’s a high-profile place, as is evident by the media reaction. Terrorists thrive on attention. Annoying that these wackjobs always believe the same tired farrago of consipracy theories and Jew-hating nuttiness. Just for once, can’t one of 'em shoot people at an aquarium in the name of preventing the return of Cthulhu’s minions? ---
**Author:** ![Moirai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/96bed5/32.png) [@Moirai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moirai)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2009, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whisky-tango-foxtrot-shooting-at-the-holocaust-museum/499363/115 "2009-06-11T13:22:13Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > John de Nugent, a white separatist and friend of James von Brunn, quoted in this morning’s Washington Post. 'the hell? :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2009, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whisky-tango-foxtrot-shooting-at-the-holocaust-museum/499363/116 "2009-06-11T13:23:46Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > John de Nugent, a white separatist and friend of James von Brunn, quoted in this morning’s Washington Post. Only possible response: “don’t worry about it”. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2009, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whisky-tango-foxtrot-shooting-at-the-holocaust-museum/499363/117 "2009-06-11T13:29:50Z")
So if we gave the white separatists Montana, or Wyoming (sorry to all residents there, but it won’t be for long) and then recognized them as a sovereign nation, we could invade them, run tanks over them, and allow the state to re-enter the Union? ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2009, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whisky-tango-foxtrot-shooting-at-the-holocaust-museum/499363/118 "2009-06-11T13:31:53Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > The shooter wasn’t from Illinois, was he? I hate Illinois Nazis. ---
**Author:** ![Sigmagirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c89c15/32.png) [@Sigmagirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sigmagirl)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2009, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whisky-tango-foxtrot-shooting-at-the-holocaust-museum/499363/119 "2009-06-11T13:53:48Z")
> [@Lamar\_Mundane](#): > > Von Brunn claims on his website that he is a member of Mensa, which should be good enough for it’s own thread. He was a member for one year, 1987. He let his membership lapse, but continued to claim the affiliation. ---
**Author:** ![Bookkeeper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bookkeeper/32/281_2.png) [@Bookkeeper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bookkeeper)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2009, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whisky-tango-foxtrot-shooting-at-the-holocaust-museum/499363/120 "2009-06-11T14:47:51Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > As to the alleged shooter’s age - 88 is a number with significance among white supremacists/neo-Nazis (apparently a code for Heil Hitler, H being the 8th letter of the alphabet). So if he wanted to make a statement… > Seeing that this guy was apparently a decorated WWII veteran, it’s bewildering to contemplate that he became the sort of person he originally went to war to defeat.I would try this at our department meetings, but I think it would take more than a few Mexican dinners to break up one of those suckers. Not a “decorated” veteran in any real sense of the word. Battle stars are awarded with campaign medals, indicating that not only were you in the area for a particular campaign, but that you were actually in a battle as well. Commendation Ribbons are unit awards. None of these are awarded as any sort of recognition of personal valour or accomplishment. Even the battle stars may be awarded simply for being in the vicinity with your unit, whether or not you personally actually heard any gunfire. The fact that he makes such a big deal of these “decorations” indicates that he has no real military accomplishments to brag about. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whisky-tango-foxtrot-shooting-at-the-holocaust-museum/499363.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whisky-tango-foxtrot-shooting-at-the-holocaust-museum/499363.md?page=7)