# White America doesn't understand democracy **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 8, 2018, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-america-doesnt-understand-democracy/824169 "2018-11-08T00:39:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2018, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-america-doesnt-understand-democracy/824169/61 "2018-11-08T21:02:16Z")
> [@bump](#): > > I don’t think most of that is a lack of understanding of democracy at all. > > It’s what derives from being in a group that has historically been the overwhelming majority- as recently as 1990, white, non-hispanic people were _ **76% of the population** _. > > Pretty much by definition, their experience/view is the standard one, insofar as there’s a standard experience among hundreds of millions of people. I think it is not whitewashed or sanitized either- it’s more a matter of not paying attention or caring because they don’t really have to. Tyranny of the majority. > > And I think that’s the mistake- assuming that even today, 64% of the population is one giant monolithic bloc who all think and feel the same, or even hold the same opinions. That’s not even remotely feasible- the US isn’t homogeneous enough to accomplish that- at least other countries have the benefit of shared national identity/ethnicity/traditions to unite them. The US doesn’t really have too much of that really- people are still more likely to be more recognizably from their state or region, and have more in common with minorities from there, than white people elsewhere. The funny thing is that by assuming “whites” are a monolithic block, he undermines his own argument. Since they are the majority, then their views should rule the day in a democracy. So I guess whites are the ones who actually do understand what democracy is about! ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2018, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-america-doesnt-understand-democracy/824169/62 "2018-11-08T21:10:59Z")
> [@EscAlaMike](#): > > So in other words, you have created a construct in your head and are calling it “white America”. Got it. > > Empathizing with other human beings, especially with those whose looks or culture are unfamiliar to you, is a difficult thing, no matter what your color or class. Lack of empathy is a major problem in the US, but it is not a problem that is unique to “white America”. I don’t think it’s a two way street like you’re saying. The population of the United States is 72% white and 12% black. It’s possible for a white American to go through their daily routine without ever having to interact with or think about black people. It’s not possible for a black American to go through their daily routine without having to interact with or think about white people. Black American are forced to have empathy in a way that white Americans are not. ---
**Author:** ![EscAlaMike](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/escalamike/32/4177_2.png) [@EscAlaMike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EscAlaMike)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2018, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-america-doesnt-understand-democracy/824169/63 "2018-11-08T21:17:38Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I don’t think it’s a two way street like you’re saying. The population of the United States is 72% white and 12% black. It’s possible for a white American to go through their daily routine without ever having to interact with or think about black people. It’s not possible for a black American to go through their daily routine without having to interact with or think about white people. Black American are forced to have empathy in a way that white Americans are not. This is a regional thing. I live in Alabama. Granted there are some parts of North Alabama that are 90% white and parts of the Black Belt that are 90% black; but for the most part, in this part of the country cross-racial interaction is unavoidable. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2018, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-america-doesnt-understand-democracy/824169/64 "2018-11-08T21:37:27Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > I’ve done some marching, and a lot of phone calling. No town hall opportunities. See above.Yeah well, I’m trying to figure out what **asahi** ’s alternative plan of action IS. We’re doing stuff already, thanks. Like I said earlier, _what’s the opportunity cost of what we’re already doing? What should we be doing that what we’re doing now is getting in the way of?_ > > In the absence of some answers there, he isn’t on my side; he’s an underminer. **asahi** has made it quite clear that he hasn’t got the faintest idea what anybody should do, but if it doesn’t get you arrested and/or shot, then it’s ineffective. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2018, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-america-doesnt-understand-democracy/824169/65 "2018-11-08T22:01:42Z")
> [@EscAlaMike](#): > > This is a regional thing. > > I live in Alabama. Granted there are some parts of North Alabama that are 90% white and parts of the Black Belt that are 90% black; but for the most part, in this part of the country cross-racial interaction is unavoidable. But it is still a very true statement, especially in rural mid-America. My nephews go to school in North Dakota. It isn’t exactly a bastion of diversity. And, true story although not the case any longer. There were ZERO minorities in my high school. I graduated from high school in the mid-1980s in the suburban Twin Cities with kids who had never SEEN a non-white person in real life. (Thirty years later my son spent a year in that district. He’s Asian. We went to his band concert. He stuck out - it was so white he said “glare get you?” In thirty years they’d gotten a few minority kids - but none in band). ---
**Author:** ![Huey\_Freeman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/huey_freeman/32/251_2.png) [@Huey\_Freeman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huey_Freeman)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2018, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-america-doesnt-understand-democracy/824169/66 "2018-11-08T22:15:46Z")
> [@cochrane](#): > > Democracy is the worst form of government on this planet. Except for all the rest. But you don’t even have that. Within the last two decades, of the 2 out of the 3 who won the presidency, they were all white, and didn’t win the popular vote. That’s not a democracy, that’s white supremacy. You can’t have a fully functioning democracy when the State is engaging in voter suppression. You cannot have a fully functioning democracy without a free press that reports the facts. You cannot have a fully functioning democracy when either side dehumanizes the other. The US may be many things but a democracy it is not. Stacey Abrams and disenfranchised people of color in Georgia can attest to that. The gerrymandered districts that in Louisiana, Florida, and Texas can attest to that. ---
**Author:** ![EscAlaMike](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/escalamike/32/4177_2.png) [@EscAlaMike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EscAlaMike)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2018, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-america-doesnt-understand-democracy/824169/67 "2018-11-08T22:26:57Z")
> [@Huey\_Freeman](#): > > Within the last two decades, of the 2 out of the 3 who won the presidency, they were all white, and didn’t win the popular vote. That’s not a democracy, that’s white supremacy. You can’t have a fully functioning democracy when the State is engaging in voter suppression. The Presidential election process makes no claim to be purely Democratic. Why is it necessarily “white supremacy”? What does voter suppression have to do with the electoral college system? > [@Huey\_Freeman](#): > > The US may be many things but a democracy it is not. That’s correct. Are you suggesting that every proposed law should be decided by a nationwide popular vote? ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2018, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-america-doesnt-understand-democracy/824169/68 "2018-11-08T22:28:53Z")
> [@Huey\_Freeman](#): > > The gerrymandered districts that in Louisiana, Florida, and Texas can attest to that. Don’t forget North Carolina. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2018, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-america-doesnt-understand-democracy/824169/69 "2018-11-08T22:31:31Z")
> [@EscAlaMike](#): > > The Presidential election process makes no claim to be purely Democratic. Why is it necessarily “white supremacy”? What does voter suppression have to do with the electoral college system? That’s easy, because it means that you only have to suppress votes in a few states in order to turn an election, rather than across the whole country. > [@](#): > > That’s correct. Are you suggesting that every proposed law should be decided by a nationwide popular vote? It is also not a representative democracy if the representatives do not represent the will of the voters. ---
**Author:** ![EscAlaMike](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/escalamike/32/4177_2.png) [@EscAlaMike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EscAlaMike)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2018, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-america-doesnt-understand-democracy/824169/70 "2018-11-08T22:35:52Z")
Hopefully we can all agree that the United States government, for better or for worse, was intentionally set up **NOT** as a pure Democracy, but as a representative government with democratic _elements_. Why is “Democracy”, without any qualifiers, being held up as the unquestioned ideal? ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2018, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-america-doesnt-understand-democracy/824169/71 "2018-11-08T22:55:07Z")
I’m a white guy and I can’t blame the OP. Look at how whites have treated blacks, especially in the south. Blacks in the south lived in a de facto dictatorship in the south until the 1960s. They had no civil rights. This idea that we’re supposed to poo-poo the OP and say ‘no, white people are amazing’, when they happily created dictatorships for non-whites up until a few decades ago in over a dozen states is bullshit. And whites didn’t give up those dictatorships happily, they were forced to give them up by judges and the military. There is something wrong with white culture when it comes to how many of us treat those who are different than us. Why is it so bad to admit to that? We are very willing to dehumanize the other and take their rights away. Is this a trait all humans share? Yes, but we are in the US, and these are our particular problems we need to deal with. Obviously not all white people are bad. Whites outside the south voted for civil rights in the south under LBJ. Whites volunteered to help register voters. But there is a very loud, vocal % of white people who are very very hostile to democracy for anyone who is different from them. We need to be honest about this fact and deal with it like adults rather than start complaining when anyone admits to this fact. ---
**Author:** ![EscAlaMike](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/escalamike/32/4177_2.png) [@EscAlaMike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EscAlaMike)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2018, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-america-doesnt-understand-democracy/824169/72 "2018-11-08T22:59:17Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > Obviously not all white people are bad. But all Southern whites are bad, amiright? ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2018, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-america-doesnt-understand-democracy/824169/73 "2018-11-08T23:03:57Z")
> [@EscAlaMike](#): > > Hopefully we can all agree that the United States government, for better or for worse, was intentionally set up **NOT** as a pure Democracy, but as a representative government with democratic _elements_. > > Why is “Democracy”, without any qualifiers, being held up as the unquestioned ideal? Because you are reading too much into it. Democracy as a generic ideal is when the governed choose their form of governing. What exact type of system is variable. You can question that, if you like, but I kinda like it. But the idea that the people have a voice in their government is democracy, even if democracy as a form of government is a specific form where everyone has a vote on everything. For instance, the definition of [democracy](https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/democracy) is > [@](#): > > a government in which the supreme power is vested in the people and exercised by them directly or indirectly through a system of representation usually involving periodically held free elections So the very definition of democracy has the idea of representative democracy built into it. Your demand that people qualify the term is without merit. All you are doing here by playing semantic games and incorrectly trying to correct other’s terminology is to distract from the fact that we also do not have a representative democracy, in that the make up of our government does not reflect the will of the governed. If you want to have a discussion, defend that, don’t try to be distracting with your failed attempts at pendacism. ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2018, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-america-doesnt-understand-democracy/824169/74 "2018-11-09T00:10:52Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > _I want to know what democracy is, I want you to show me > I want to feel what democracy is, I know you can show me_ 😃 > [@asahi](#): > > Yes, and I think white Americans have no clue about their own society and politics. > [@k9bfriender](#): > > There are several reasons that your comparison falls short. > > Asashi did not say white people, he said white america. So, in order for your analogy to be more apt, it would be “American Muslims”, not muslims as a whole, so your 1.6 billion is a bit overblown. > > There is also the fact that Asashi is also a white american. So your “Muslims” comment would have to be coming from a muslim to be comparable in nature. > > Then there is the fact that he said “White america”, not “white americans”, which is how you can tell he is referring to the culture the majority follow, not about individuals, so your complaint of a broad brush also falls flat. > > “White America” is responsible for Trump and the republicans having the political power they do right now. > “White Americans” are a diverse group with many different opinions. > > ETA: for instance, a white gay male is a white american, but is not (usually or necessarily) part of “white america.” > > I get that you took offense to the way that you chose to interpret the post, but if you actually look at what the post actually is, rather than your knee jerk reaction to it, you may find more to agree with than you think. So, not really “for the same reason”, more, that you have chosen to be offended, and worked your way up to a very flawed analogy from there. He did say “white Americans” as you can see above. It may not have been part of the OP but it shows that it is what he meant in the OP. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2018, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-america-doesnt-understand-democracy/824169/75 "2018-11-09T00:48:52Z")
> [@EscAlaMike](#): > > But all Southern whites are bad, amiright? All? No. The majority, yes. Because if the majority didn’t support Jim Crow, it wouldn’t have happened. So yes, the majority of whites in the south supported creating a brutal dictatorship for those who are different from them. ---
**Author:** ![EscAlaMike](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/escalamike/32/4177_2.png) [@EscAlaMike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EscAlaMike)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2018, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-america-doesnt-understand-democracy/824169/76 "2018-11-09T02:23:10Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Because you are reading too much into it. > > Democracy as a generic ideal is when the governed choose their form of governing. What exact type of system is variable. You can question that, if you like, but I kinda like it. > > But the idea that the people have a voice in their government is democracy, even if democracy as a form of government is a specific form where everyone has a vote on everything. > > For instance, the definition of [democracy](https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/democracy) is > So the very definition of democracy has the idea of representative democracy built into it. Your demand that people qualify the term is without merit. > > All you are doing here by playing semantic games and incorrectly trying to correct other’s terminology is to distract from the fact that we also do not have a representative democracy, in that the make up of our government does not reflect the will of the governed. If you want to have a discussion, defend that, don’t try to be distracting with your failed attempts at pendacism. Thank you for clarifying, and I agree with you that our government does not reflect the will of the governed. Our ironclad two-party system is proof enough of that. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2018, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-america-doesnt-understand-democracy/824169/77 "2018-11-09T02:23:38Z")
> [@Typo\_Negative](#): > > Loved the quote from The West Wing. In a democracy, sometimes the other guy wins. > > And **asahi** is a braying ninny. Who took it from Winston Churchill. ---
**Author:** ![EscAlaMike](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/escalamike/32/4177_2.png) [@EscAlaMike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EscAlaMike)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2018, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-america-doesnt-understand-democracy/824169/78 "2018-11-09T02:32:10Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > All? No. The majority, yes. > > Because if the majority didn’t support Jim Crow, it wouldn’t have happened. > > So yes, the majority of whites in the south supported creating a brutal dictatorship for those who are different from them. I’m not sure I agree with that, but I’m willing to be proven wrong. The South has a legacy of being run by a small minority (the wealthy, landed class), kind of a neo-feudal system, in which the vast majority of the population, both white and black, had virtually no education and no power. ---
**Author:** ![Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malleus_incus_stapes/32/3293_2.png) [@Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malleus_Incus_Stapes)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2018, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-america-doesnt-understand-democracy/824169/79 "2018-11-09T02:37:54Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > This idea that we’re supposed to poo-poo the OP and say ‘no, white people are amazing’ There’s a pretty big gap between ‘white people are amazing’ and ‘white people are all stupid’. And the OP is basically “White Americans are all stupid! Wake up, sheeple!!!” I don’t have to think that whites are somehow better than anyone else to be insulted by Chicken Little’s latest squawkings. Much less when he has no idea what he’s talking about _according to his own logic_. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2018, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-america-doesnt-understand-democracy/824169/80 "2018-11-09T13:33:23Z")
> [@EscAlaMike](#): > > Hopefully we can all agree that the United States government, for better or for worse, was intentionally set up **NOT** as a pure Democracy, but as a representative government with democratic _elements_. > > Why is “Democracy”, without any qualifiers, being held up as the unquestioned ideal? Leaving aside the matter of the different states having representation in Congress and in the Electoral College (ETA: that is disproportionate to population): Why shouldn’t “Democracy” without any qualifiers be the unquestioned ideal **within** each state? The Founders didn’t let everybody vote (which we’ve changed, at least with respect to adults), but nothing in the Constitution suggests that, within a state, some of our votes should count more or less than the votes of others. If there’s a particular theory of representation that you’re espousing that makes a case that different voters **should** be given different weight, let’s hear it. Otherwise, within each state, each person’s vote counting equally is the obvious default, and what even a kindergartener would regard as ‘fair.’ [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-america-doesnt-understand-democracy/824169.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-america-doesnt-understand-democracy/824169.md?page=5)