# White Americans: Are you a "hyphenated American" **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [November 7, 2011, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-americans-are-you-a-hyphenated-american/602221 "2011-11-07T23:22:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2011, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-americans-are-you-a-hyphenated-american/602221/101 "2011-11-11T17:52:10Z")
> [@Dr.Drake](#): > > I like the fact that some of my ancestors came from Switzerland. I think it’s cool. I discovered this through genealogy (my grandfather thought that side was French, and my father never thought about it at all), so it would be beyond foolish to claim that heritage. Nevertheless, I can say “I am a Swiss-American,” meaning a part of my heritage was religious nutballs who abandoned Switzerland for Ohio in the 19th century. It doesn’t mean I have anything in common with a Swiss person, and it’s more a historical factoid that a statement of identity as when I say “Italian-American.” Uh…this is confusing. Sorry. If you say you’re “Swiss-American”, I’m going to infer from this that more than just some of your ancestors are from Switzerland. Furthermore, I will assume that there must be something that distinguishes you from the “mainstream”, in terms of upbringing or lifestyle, for you to identify yourself in this way. If you say, “Oh, some of my ancestors are from Switzerland”, that is much clearer and leaves no doubt about what you are claiming. I have some ancestors who are Scots-Irish. Even if I were white, I wouldn’t call myself “Scots-Irish American” because I have absolutely no idea what this would mean, in terms of culture. And I think I’d be misleading people into believing that more than just some of my ancestors are Scots-Irish. If ancestry came up in conversation, I would just say “Some of my ancestors are Scots-Irish” and leave it at that. ---
**Author:** ![rhubarbarin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/eb9ed0/32.png) [@rhubarbarin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rhubarbarin)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2011, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-americans-are-you-a-hyphenated-american/602221/102 "2011-11-11T17:56:43Z")
My cousins identify as Swiss-American. Their father is Swiss, they were born in Switzerland and lived there until early grade school years, they have citizenship, and they speak Swiss German. I do think it’s weird when other people I know around here call themselves ‘Irish-American’ and fly an Irish flag… and they are 3rd generation immigrants who have never been to Ireland. That doesn’t stop me from telling people I am a Pilgrim, if they ask. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2011, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-americans-are-you-a-hyphenated-american/602221/103 "2011-11-11T19:15:22Z")
> [@Dr.Drake](#): > > Nationality (citizenship) is not the same as identity. > > Some Americans identify with an ethnicity or national heritage that is not the country of their citizenship, but their ancestors’. Some don’t. For those that do, sometimes the connection is real, sometimes it’s tenuous, and sometimes it’s made up. In any case, when an American says “I’m Lithuanian,” it means one of five things: > > 1. I’m a visitor from Lithuania. > 2. I’m an American originally from Lithuania. > 3. I grew up in America, but steeped in Lithuanian culture. > 4. One or more of my ancestors came from Lithuania. > 5. I really like Lithuanian culture. > > It’s just shorthand, because it’s easier to say “I’m Lithuanian” than to bore others with the backstory of how and why. Usually, context will separate #1 from Nos. 2–5… Yes! It’s sort of like being the fan of a particular sports team. You are interested in a part of your heritage–several generations back or closer. The people who get all huffy & say “but you aren’t really Lithuanian” are like the folks who celebrated the new millenium as 2000 turned into 2001. Because the 1999/2000 celebrations were\* incorrect!\* Those folks are almost as annoying as those who get all huffy about any Hyphen-Americans. Or who think that “White” is an especially interesting label… ---
**Author:** ![ProbablyProcrastinating](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/57b2e6/32.png) [@ProbablyProcrastinating](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ProbablyProcrastinating)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2011, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-americans-are-you-a-hyphenated-american/602221/104 "2011-11-11T19:39:08Z")
I’m actually mixed. I’m part white (half) and I consider myself a European-American as well as a Hispanic and Native American. It is important to me because I don’t look white but I love my whole family and all my ancestors and I’m proud of where I come from on all sides. To me it’s not about being “American” first. First I’m human, and associate with my class. But if I’m assumed to be Hispanic-American I will certainly embrace being Euro-American as well. We have a lot of stories! When people ask I tell them the whole damn story from the pilgrims, the conquistadors, the exiles, the economic immigrants, the soldiers relocating, and all the way down the line. It takes about 5 minutes. Most of the time people are sorry they asked but if you don’t want to know where I come from, don’t ask. 😃 Foreigners always appreciate it. It’s like an insight into American history. (I look mixed so I get a lot of questions.) ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2011, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-americans-are-you-a-hyphenated-american/602221/105 "2011-11-11T19:59:00Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > I have some ancestors who are Scots-Irish. Even if I were white, I wouldn’t call myself “Scots-Irish American” because I have absolutely no idea what this would mean, in terms of culture. And I think I’d be misleading people into believing that more than just some of my ancestors are Scots-Irish. If ancestry came up in conversation, I would just say “Some of my ancestors are Scots-Irish” and leave it at that. In parts of the South, “Scots-Irish” means something pretty specific, and there is sort of a political identity that goes along with it. I want to say it’s more associated with Appalachia, but not just in a “Hatfields and McCoys” kind of way. These are people who are descended from Scots-Irish immigrants (meaning they were from Ireland, but with ancestry from Scotland, not that they are mixed Scottish and Irish). ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2011, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-americans-are-you-a-hyphenated-american/602221/106 "2011-11-11T23:51:39Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > I identify myself in different ways, depending on why I’m being asked to identify myself. Do you get asked to identify yourself often, outside of paperwork? 😕 Maybe that’s why I don’t get the hyphen thing, since I don’t think I’ve ever been asked “what are you” other than in surveys, etc. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2011, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-americans-are-you-a-hyphenated-american/602221/107 "2011-11-12T00:38:30Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > Do you get asked to identify yourself often, outside of paperwork? 😕 Yes, I do. But it’s probably because I don’t look white. And that’s why people who blow a gasket about people who go by hyphenated-American puzzle me. I’d love to be able to get away with just “American”, but most people are not fine with this. It’s not a problem with me to clarify, but then don’t turn around and act like I’m the one being divisive. Oddly, in my experience, it seems like there’s some overlap between the “stop being divisive!” people and those who are always curious about “what” someone is. If I can accept non-whites as being “hyphen-American”, I can do the same for whites. Only seems fair. ---
**Author:** ![chiroptera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/df705f/32.png) [@chiroptera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chiroptera)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2011, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-americans-are-you-a-hyphenated-american/602221/108 "2011-11-12T00:44:45Z")
I am the only American person in my family (I was born here.) But my family moved from the US before I was two years old. Mother was born in Germany, naturalized here when she was 5 and they moved here, father was first generation American; both of his parents (my grandparents) were born in Canada but moved to NYC, where he was born. I grew up living in several countries but my education was primarily British - boarding school in England, high school and college in Scotland. We also lived in Greece (two years), Turkey (five years) and France (about a year and a half.) I came “back” to the US when I was 21 in 1979 with a very strong Scottish accent and of course my upbringing was quite international. I remember being confused and befuddled that people in America, who upon hearing my accent, volunteered that they were also “Scottish.” 😕 :rolleyes: Despite never having been there and having utterly no clue about the culture beyong what they maybe knew from TV shows. Over time I have come to accept this bizarre American trait, but let me tell you: it is really fucking weird from the perspective of someone like me, who moved back to the US but didn’t grow up here. To hear people telling me “I’m Scottish/English/whatever” too when they’ve never even left the US is just strange beyond belief. But, I have lived here for over 30 years and still identify as simply “American” because that’s how I feel. Not “Scottish-American” or “European-American” or anything else hyphenated - although I could practically be a poster child for a hyphenated American. ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2011, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-americans-are-you-a-hyphenated-american/602221/109 "2011-11-12T01:56:04Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > Yes, I do. But it’s probably because I don’t look white. But isn’t that rather rude??? And why do they care? Shoot I can’t tell the different Asian races apart but I’d never consider walking up to someone and asking them. > [@](#): > > I’d love to be able to get away with just “American”, but most people are not fine with this. That sounds like their problem and not something you should have to deal with. Or feed. > [@](#): > > It’s not a problem with me to clarify, but then don’t turn around and act like I’m the one being divisive. Oddly, in my experience, it seems like there’s some overlap between the “stop being divisive!” people and those who are always curious about “what” someone is. Oh well not me - I don’t give a rip what race anyone is. I guess that’s why I don’t ask 😉 > [@](#): > > If I can accept non-whites as being “hyphen-American”, I can do the same for whites. Only seems fair. I’d rather go the other way - we are all Americans. Do other countries do the hyphen thing? ---
**Author:** ![nashiitashii](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/7c8e57/32.png) [@nashiitashii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nashiitashii)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2011, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-americans-are-you-a-hyphenated-american/602221/110 "2011-11-12T02:10:34Z")
I identify as Icelandic-American. My mother moved to the US after the birth of her first child, kept a lot of the food and holiday traditions alive, had many friends who were also Icelandic expatriates, and participated in the local Icelandic-American association. I grew up in a household where hers was the dominant culture, and, while I can no longer speak Icelandic, I spoke at least a smattering of it when I was younger. Every few years, we’d visit the homeland, and I would spend most of the summer surrounded by relatives and living like an Icelander. I was the odd nerdy girl with the scary ethnic mother growing up, and for a long time my ethnic identity was a huge part of how I viewed myself and the world. I’m not fully Icelandic, nor am I fully American, but I shouldn’t have to choose one or the other. The most cringeworthy thing I get from other Americans of Scandinavian descent is trying to compress ethnic identity into a pan-Scandinavian culture in a way that shows they haven’t got much context for what made their ancestors culturally [insert Scandinavian ethnicity here]. The worst way this was ever expressed to me was by a kid in one of my classes who ended a cashier-customer transaction with me by exclaiming “Norse Power” in my presence. I understood what he probably meant (pride in shared cultural roots), but it came across as something completely different (thinly veiled hate speech). It’s not necessarily easy for those who didn’t grow up with an expatriate parent to relate to those who are a few generations further from their roots, as we grew up with different levels of acculturation. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2011, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-americans-are-you-a-hyphenated-american/602221/111 "2011-11-12T03:09:21Z")
I think part of the problem is that American culture is so damn successful. Everybody imitates our architecture, learned how we do business, watches our tv and movies, and often speaks English. As such, it becomes harder to call American your identy - after all, it’s just like everybody else, but lacking cultural spice. So Americans want something to identify with. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2011, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-americans-are-you-a-hyphenated-american/602221/112 "2011-11-12T04:32:46Z")
I’m an mutt born in England: my grandfather was born in Ireland, my grandmother in the Caribbean, my other grandparents had Dutch roots. I’m interested in my heritage but I am English through and through. However I spent several years as a kid in America, and when I returned to the UK I told everyone I was Caribbean or Irish, to much bemusement/amusement. As I got older I realised that I had picked up a peculiar - but ultimately neutral - American cultural phenomenon (and that 99% of the time you need to tag “-American” onto the shorthand nationality, then you will understand what is being said) - which is ironic as it’s very American, but has its roots in the need to define oneself as ‘other’. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2011, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-americans-are-you-a-hyphenated-american/602221/113 "2011-11-12T04:44:41Z")
Clarification in case of misunderstanding: by “peculiar” I mean “distinct” rather than “odd”. In other words I’m hamfistedly saying it’s a harmless cultural trait that us Euros need to stop getting our panties in a bunch about. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2011, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-americans-are-you-a-hyphenated-american/602221/114 "2011-11-12T05:25:40Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > Do other countries do the hyphen thing? In my experience, to the extent that they have assimilated immigrant populations with unified cultural heritage, they do that. I have a few friends who describe themselves as Franco-German for example. It’s often rarer in other countries precisely because a significant quantity of people in the US is a member of an assimilated immigrant population, compared to almost any other country. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2011, 7:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-americans-are-you-a-hyphenated-american/602221/115 "2011-11-12T07:58:23Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > Do other countries do the hyphen thing? In Spain a hyphenation would mean double nationality. One of my classmates was _español de padres vietnamitas_ (a Spaniard whose parents were Vietnamese), his nationality was Spanish; another one was _italo-español_ or _italoespañol_: this second one actually had both nationalities. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2011, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-americans-are-you-a-hyphenated-american/602221/116 "2011-11-12T16:01:59Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > In parts of the South, “Scots-Irish” means something pretty specific, and there is sort of a political identity that goes along with it. I want to say it’s more associated with Appalachia, but not just in a “Hatfields and McCoys” kind of way. These are people who are descended from Scots-Irish immigrants (meaning they were from Ireland, but with ancestry from Scotland, not that they are mixed Scottish and Irish). Scots-Irish is the newer version of Scotch-Irish. Their ancestors were Scottish Protestants, planted in Ulster to keep down the natives. Being Dissenters, they were a step down from the Church of Ireland Quality; some of them kept moving West. Among those who reached our shores before 1776, most were quite happy to take up arms against Old England. As English-speaking White Protestants, many of them lost any particular ethnic distinction in the USA. In the mountains, certain old traditions remained: Distilling without paying taxes, Fiddle playing & a strong religion that taught the first two traditions were sinful… The term Scotch-Irish was invented to distinguish these sturdy folks from the Popish bog-stompers who began coming over in great numbers 'round about 1847. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2011, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-americans-are-you-a-hyphenated-american/602221/117 "2011-11-12T16:15:38Z")
More on the Scots/Scotch-Irish. From R F Foster’s [Modern Ireland: 1600-1972](http://www.amazon.com/dp/0140132503). > [@](#): > > ….Two-fifths of the total of American emigrants in the colonial period came from Ulster—up to 250,000 souls. They appear to have been much less exclusively Protestant than popularly supposed, and included many Anglicans as well as Presbyterians: the predominant “Ulster Scot” stereotype does not stand up to the statistics, since about 100,000, mostly Catholic, probably came from the south in the same period. The Ulster Scots, however, stood out: possibly because, even in the New World, they remained ostentatiously separate. Even more importantly, distinctive Ulster Scot communities could evolve because Ulster _women_ emigrated, too—a development not replicated elsewhere in Ireland, except Dublin, until the nineteenth century. So, it’s not as simple as it might seem. Need to get back to that very fine book–but it’s not a happy story. I got bogged down… ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2011, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-americans-are-you-a-hyphenated-american/602221/118 "2011-11-12T16:32:15Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > Do other countries do the hyphen thing? In the UK, one would tend to find “British” primarily, with “of X heritage” tacked on only if someone feels it necessary - usually based on which immigration wave they rode. Off the top of my head, contrasting examples: Frank Bruno, a former world-class heavyweight British boxer of Afro-Caribbean heritage (first wave), has only really ever been identified as British; however Naseem Hamed, a British featherweight boxer, is more often, but still only occasionally, identified as “of Arabic heritage” (third or fourth wave - he was born in Yemen), though usually he’s just British. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2011, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-americans-are-you-a-hyphenated-american/602221/119 "2011-11-12T16:36:28Z")
Another British example, Shirley Bassey is Welsh, though her father was from Nigeria and her mother from England. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2011, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-americans-are-you-a-hyphenated-american/602221/120 "2011-11-12T17:13:05Z")
> [@Dr.Drake](#): > > Another British example, Shirley Bassey is Welsh, though her father was from Nigeria and her mother from England. To reinforce this: I’ve known of Shirley Bassey all my life, and knew she was not white, but had no idea of the details of her heritage, other than she was Welsh. Another example I’ll give is Moira Stewart, who was the much-loved first black female newsreader on British TV. The only people who ever gave a shit about her heritage when she began her job were racists. And the only reason I know anything about her heritage is due to a documentary series called [Who Do You Think You Are](http://www.bbc.co.uk/whodoyouthinkyouare/past-stories/moira-stuart.shtml), where celebs investigate their ancestry, when Moira was middle-aged (in which it turned out her mother was from the same Caribbean island as my grandmother). I think it’s quite telling of the UK’s attitude to heritage that _Who Do You Think You Are_ even exists: it’s a novelty. And it repeatedly revealed stuff to celebs about their roots that they had no idea of - even in their grandparents’ generation. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-americans-are-you-a-hyphenated-american/602221.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-americans-are-you-a-hyphenated-american/602221.md?page=7)