# White Americans less healthy than British counterparts: your thoughts **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 10, 2006, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-americans-less-healthy-than-british-counterparts-your-thoughts/356152 "2006-05-10T01:01:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2006, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-americans-less-healthy-than-british-counterparts-your-thoughts/356152/1 "2006-05-10T01:01:30Z")
(Sorry; tried to find link to decent article, couldn’t. Anyone?) Apparently Caucasian Americans are significantly less healthy than a genetically similar group, the British. This despite the fact that the British are not known for having particularly better eating or smoking habits than Americans. Even though the US outspends the UK in total absolute money devoted to healthcare. The suspected culprits: UK has national healthcare, US does not. US high stress society ??? I would like especially to hear from anyone who’s lived in both the US and UK extended periods of time, who would be in a position to compare the two nations. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2006, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-americans-less-healthy-than-british-counterparts-your-thoughts/356152/2 "2006-05-10T01:12:57Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > …This despite the fact that the British are not known for having particularly better eating or smoking habits than Americans… I’m not going to go all patriot-defensive here, honestly, but I’m pretty sure that Americans are better-known for unhealthy eating (overeating, that is) than Brits; certainly obesity is more common in the USA than it is in the UK, although we’re catching up fast. > [@](#): > > …Even though the US outspends the UK in total absolute money devoted to healthcare… And I have to wonder how meaningful this is; do you get the same sort of _value for money_ that we do? Does _‘healthcare’_ include things like cosmetic surgery? Cosmetic dentistry?\* (\*throwing you an easy bone here, if you want to get a dig in) ---
**Author:** ![Eva\_Luna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e495f1/32.png) [@Eva\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eva_Luna)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2006, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-americans-less-healthy-than-british-counterparts-your-thoughts/356152/3 "2006-05-10T01:32:37Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > I’m not going to go all patriot-defensive here, honestly, but I’m pretty sure that Americans are better-known for unhealthy eating (overeating, that is) than Brits; certainly obesity is more common in the USA than it is in the UK, although we’re catching up fast. [This BBC article](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/4965034.stm) says that even if obesity rates are factored in, there is still a gap. ---
**Author:** ![Malodorous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e47774/32.png) [@Malodorous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malodorous)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2006, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-americans-less-healthy-than-british-counterparts-your-thoughts/356152/4 "2006-05-10T01:40:29Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > ``` > (Sorry; tried to find link to decent article, couldn't. Anyone?) > > ``` **Malodorous** to the [rescue](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/05/02/AR2006050200631_2.html) They don’t say precisely what is counted as health care spending, but it does say Americans pay _double_ per capita what the British do, I doubt that can be explained by Ameicans getting more braces and breast implants. The article cautions against making the conclusion that this means the British health care system makes them healthier. That said, it is reasonable to conclude that the US system certainly isn’t making Americans healthier either, despite having twice the price tag. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2006, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-americans-less-healthy-than-british-counterparts-your-thoughts/356152/5 "2006-05-10T01:51:40Z")
> [@Malodorous](#): > > They don’t say precisely what is counted as health care spending, but it does say Americans pay _double_ per capita what the British do, I doubt that can be explained by Ameicans getting more braces and breast implants. Emphasis added. You obviously haven’t spent much time in California. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Malodorous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e47774/32.png) [@Malodorous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malodorous)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2006, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-americans-less-healthy-than-british-counterparts-your-thoughts/356152/6 "2006-05-10T01:53:50Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > Emphasis added. You obviously haven’t spent much time in California. 🙂 Those weren’t real!! I just figured it was something in the water over there. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2006, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-americans-less-healthy-than-british-counterparts-your-thoughts/356152/7 "2006-05-10T02:04:53Z")
All joking aside, I know of 5 families where girls were given an “upgrade” for a graduation present-- from High School. It’s an arms race out there! [For More Teenage Girls, Adult Plastic Surgery](http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A62540-2004Oct25?language=printer) > [@](#): > > From 2002 to 2003, according to the American Society for Aesthetic Plastic Surgery, the number of girls 18 and younger who got breast implants nearly tripled, from 3,872 to 11,326. Among all age groups, cosmetic implants have skyrocketed in popularity, according to the American Society of Plastic Surgeons. Last year, according to the ASPS, about 247,000 women got implants for augmentation, compared with 32,000 in 1992. At $5k a pop, that’s $1.2B for that one procedure alone. (I’m not saying that explains the difference, or even if it counts as “healthcare”, but it’s an interesting statistic!) ---
**Author:** ![Malodorous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e47774/32.png) [@Malodorous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malodorous)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2006, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-americans-less-healthy-than-british-counterparts-your-thoughts/356152/8 "2006-05-10T02:41:55Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > At $5k a pop, that’s $1.2B for that one procedure alone. (I’m not saying that explains the difference, or even if it counts as “healthcare”, but it’s an interesting statistic!) That is kinda weird/scary/arousing. Still, as you say, I doubt that breast augmentation (or other elective cosmetic surgeries) are counted as healthcare in the study, since they don’t affect anyone’s health (at least not for the better). And even if they are, by my rough calculation that makes them a mighty half a thousandth of the health care expenditure in this country. And of course I imagine a few Welsh woman are involved in the arms race as well (anyone got statistics on British breast implants per capita (err…divided by two I guess), now I’m curious). ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2006, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-americans-less-healthy-than-british-counterparts-your-thoughts/356152/9 "2006-05-10T05:36:18Z")
Oh, come on, surely such a study will have managed to find a measurement of healthcare which ignores cosmetic surgery?! > [@Eva Luna](#): > > [This BBC article](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/4965034.stm) says that even if obesity rates are factored in, there is still a gap. That _is_ interesting. Mind you, a poor diet or lack of exercise can adversely affect someone’s health without necessarily making them obese. ---
**Author:** ![Malodorous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e47774/32.png) [@Malodorous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malodorous)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2006, 9:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-americans-less-healthy-than-british-counterparts-your-thoughts/356152/10 "2006-05-10T09:05:32Z")
> [@GorillaMan](#): > > That _is_ interesting. Mind you, a poor diet or lack of exercise can adversely affect someone’s health without necessarily making them obese. The article I linked to said the effect existed even when exercise was controlled for. Not sure about diet. ---
**Author:** ![slaphead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9bcb4/32.png) [@slaphead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slaphead)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2006, 10:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-americans-less-healthy-than-british-counterparts-your-thoughts/356152/11 "2006-05-10T10:15:35Z")
> [@Malodorous](#): > > Not sure about diet. Pies and organ meat, it’s the only explanation. More steak and kidney pie, a bit of Brain Massala, and the US would be much much healtier. :eek: Possibly a time-lag effect could explain it - the UK might be as unhealthy as the US was,say, 10 years ago, because of the same social trends occuring but with a slight delay? ---
**Author:** ![Askia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/96bed5/32.png) [@Askia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askia)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2006, 10:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-americans-less-healthy-than-british-counterparts-your-thoughts/356152/12 "2006-05-10T10:29:13Z")
There’s a school of thought that factors stressors in American society fairly prominently as a negative cause for pervasive poor health. I imagine it figures prominently as a factor for certain population groups,like males, and Latinos and blacks. America is a ridiculously fear driven consumer society. The affect that may have on your health if you happen to live behind locked doors in poorer neighborhoods year after year may be significant, especially if you buy into the bleed it leads and “fear first” mentality of local news. ---
**Author:** ![Malodorous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e47774/32.png) [@Malodorous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malodorous)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2006, 11:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-americans-less-healthy-than-british-counterparts-your-thoughts/356152/13 "2006-05-10T11:20:40Z")
> [@Askia](#): > > I imagine it figures prominently as a factor for certain population groups,like males, and Latinos and blacks…The affect that may have on your health if you happen to live behind locked doors in poorer neighborhoods year after year may be significant The study focused on high income whites. It mentioned a difference between the health of poorer whites as well, but that is presumably due to British having a larger number of programs to assist and insure thier poor. ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2006, 11:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-americans-less-healthy-than-british-counterparts-your-thoughts/356152/14 "2006-05-10T11:53:23Z")
Britons walk. They walk to the bus or train to get to work; they walk to the shops; they walk to visit friends; and they go out walking in he countryside at weekends. None of this happens so much in the US (except in strange places like Manhattan and San Francisco). ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2006, 11:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-americans-less-healthy-than-british-counterparts-your-thoughts/356152/15 "2006-05-10T11:54:55Z")
Alcohol consumption? ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2006, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-americans-less-healthy-than-british-counterparts-your-thoughts/356152/16 "2006-05-10T13:17:33Z")
> [@bup](#): > > Alcohol consumption? There is higher percapita alcohol consumption in the UK, and the legal drinking age in the UK is lower, so that suggests that more alcohol eads to better health. ---
**Author:** ![Sal\_Ammoniac](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8dc957/32.png) [@Sal\_Ammoniac](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sal_Ammoniac)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2006, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-americans-less-healthy-than-british-counterparts-your-thoughts/356152/17 "2006-05-10T13:40:01Z")
Yeah, but our teeth are better, so there. Interesting [article](http://www.nytimes.com/2006/05/07/world/europe/07teeth.html?ex=1147406400&en=b93b752c217cd1ba&ei=5087%0A), by the way, in the _NY Times_ (registration may be required) about the current state of the dental system in Britain. This is an interesting question, and the temptation is to ascribe the difference to universal healthcare in Britain. But the fact is, even the high-income cohort in the U.S., which presumably is well insured, is only as healthy as the the lowest-income cohort in England. Here is a suggestive tidbit: “Rates of smoking are similar in the US and England **but alcohol consumption is higher in the UK**.” Isn’t it reasonably well established that moderate alcohol consumption has some cardiovascular benefit, such that – all other factors being equal – you’d see lower stroke and high blood pressure rates on the English side? (On preview, **Giles** and **bup** have suggested the same.) ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2006, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-americans-less-healthy-than-british-counterparts-your-thoughts/356152/18 "2006-05-10T14:22:03Z")
I’d be interested to see comparative figures on per capita healthcare _expressed in attended hours_; my impression (admittedly probably based on an unrepresentative sample of individuals) is that Americans seem more reluctant to consult a physician or dentist, even for conditions that would have sent me scurrying off to the doc in a much shorter time. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2006, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-americans-less-healthy-than-british-counterparts-your-thoughts/356152/19 "2006-05-10T16:36:50Z")
The problem is that there are tons of factors that go into health. The stereotypical reasons of poor diet, lack of exercise & obesity are just a few factors. Things like taking specific vitamins, or specific foods, socializaing, flossing, being religious, being married and various other things have major effects on health. So I don’t know if we can really tell right now. [http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/healthnews.php?newsid=42717](http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/healthnews.php?newsid=42717) [http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn6811](http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn6811) ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2006, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-americans-less-healthy-than-british-counterparts-your-thoughts/356152/20 "2006-05-10T16:47:53Z")
I wonder if a direct comparison is even possible-the USA spans so many regiopns. For example: Vermont is one of the healthiest states-rural, low stress, clean air. People also tend to be more physically active there as well. Or take Louisiana-one of the unhealthier states-stress, rich diet (lots of fats and sweets), air pollution 9in NOLA), possible water contamination…all kinds of factors. I’m sure there is a big difference. Or it may be that the Brits actually eat a healthier diet, and alcohol consumption (moderate0 does you good. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-americans-less-healthy-than-british-counterparts-your-thoughts/356152.md?page=2)