# White Boy Soul - Why Not Viewed As Minstrel Show? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 29, 2009, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-boy-soul-why-not-viewed-as-minstrel-show/498082 "2009-05-29T20:26:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2009, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-boy-soul-why-not-viewed-as-minstrel-show/498082/41 "2009-06-01T01:24:20Z")
> [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > Depends of who you ask. For a white guy like me, East Asians may all look alike, but for “them” the differences are clearer and more important. I used to live in Japan, and trust me, the Japanese cannot reliably identify ethnic Koreans or Chinese as being non-Japanese just by looking. There are certain physical traits that are considered more typical of one group or another, but nothing you could rely upon with absolute certainty. Fashion is usually a better clue, but of course that can be changed. I’ve known a number of people from other East Asian countries (and a few Chinese-Americans) who visited or lived in Japan and were not recognized as being foreigners until they opened their mouths. > [@](#): > > \*It’s like getting a guy with a British accent play Bill Clinton, for guys reading the subtitles the difference may not be obvious or important, but if yopu know any English, it’d be glaring. \*Accent is the big giveaway. I think this was the problem some people had with _Memoirs of a Geisha_ – it wasn’t so much that the Chinese actresses _looked_ wrong but that it was very odd to have supposedly Japanese women speaking English with Chinese accents. ---
**Author:** ![Rico](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rico/32/3582_2.png) [@Rico](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rico)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2009, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-boy-soul-why-not-viewed-as-minstrel-show/498082/42 "2009-06-01T02:07:58Z")
\ And I firmly believe that Charlie Pride should stop singing country music. It’s a disgrace to his race. \ ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2009, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-boy-soul-why-not-viewed-as-minstrel-show/498082/43 "2009-06-01T05:16:03Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > IUnlike Presley, however, the minstrel shows were very clearly intended to be racist defamations of black people–even if very entertaining to the audiences of the time. Nothing coming out of late 20th century “white” blues was ever intended to mock the culture from which the rifs were borrowed. From an study of minstrelsy triggered by the reading of a history of the banjo (I don’t particularly like banjo music, but I’m a sucker of “histories of whatever”), many of the early minstrels were less racist than their audiences. In 1855, as in 1955 and 1995, blacks were presenting both new and derivative forms of music, and someone trying to cash in on what was on the cutting edge of pop music was foolish to either ignore or copy it. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2009, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-boy-soul-why-not-viewed-as-minstrel-show/498082/44 "2009-06-01T05:18:21Z")
> [@Rico](#): > > And I firmly believe that Charlie Pride should stop singing country music. It’s a disgrace to his race. (quoting Steve Goodman) And yew can co-o-o-oll me Cho-o-olrie Proi-i-i-de! But yeah, he’s a great example. Pride and Ray Charles grew up hearing country music on the radio. The Rockabilly singers also heard all sorts of stuff. So did Boomers like me, and so do kids today. Race Music was an artificial construct 70 years ago, and it is even less relevant today. ---
**Author:** ![Huerta88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/82dd89/32.png) [@Huerta88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huerta88)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2009, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-boy-soul-why-not-viewed-as-minstrel-show/498082/45 "2009-06-01T12:40:32Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > (quoting Steve Goodman) And yew can co-o-o-oll me Cho-o-olrie Proi-i-i-de! [nitpick]. . . “and you _don’t have to_ call me Charlie Pride. And you don’t have to call me Merle Haggard, any more, even though you’re on my fighting side . . . .”[/np] [/David Allen Coe, who notwithstanding his/Goodman’s shout-out to CP in that song, may not be the best exemplar of kumbaya tolerance and cultural integration based on his other work . . . .] ---
**Author:** ![DannyH](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@DannyH](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DannyH)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2009, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-boy-soul-why-not-viewed-as-minstrel-show/498082/46 "2009-06-01T22:46:45Z")
The explosion of “soul music” in the 60’s was created and formulated by white people. Otis Redding can thank a white guy for his career. The same goes for Aretha. Most of the mega-hit instrumentals were written AND performed by white artists. If you don’t believe me, just look up Stax and Volt records along with Satellite records. Look up Mussel Shoals musicians, like Steve Cropper, Donald “Duck” Dunn etc., they’re ALL white guys! Ain’t that great? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Apollyon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/apollyon/32/4238_2.png) [@Apollyon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apollyon)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2009, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-boy-soul-why-not-viewed-as-minstrel-show/498082/47 "2009-06-02T01:16:06Z")
> [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > It’s like getting a guy with a British accent play Bill Clinton, for guys reading the subtitles the difference may not be obvious or important, but if yopu know any English, it’d be glaring. Or getting a Scot to play a Russian (sorry, make that Lithuanian) submarine commander. 😃 > [@tomndebb](#): > > I’m not even sure how this tangent fits into the thread. We have all sorts of British actors in French roles, German actors in British roles, Spanish actors in Greek roles, etc. But that doesn’t matter since they are all kinda pasty and European which as we all know is really one homogeneous culture. Thank you **tomndebb** , I was thinking very much the same thing reading the thread, and it’s something of a hot button topic for me I guess. 🙂 > [@monstro](#): > > And then there are artists who are simply hard to classify. Annie Lennox, for instance. One of the most soulful white woman in the universe…[ I’d also offer Marianne Faithfull as an example, specifically her '79 album “Broken English”. ---
**Author:** ![thirdname](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/d07c76/32.png) [@thirdname](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thirdname)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2009, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-boy-soul-why-not-viewed-as-minstrel-show/498082/48 "2009-06-02T01:27:50Z")
> [@DannyH](#): > > The explosion of “soul music” in the 60’s was created and formulated by white people. Otis Redding can thank a white guy for his career. The same goes for Aretha. Most of the mega-hit instrumentals were written AND performed by white artists. If you don’t believe me, just look up Stax and Volt records along with Satellite records. Look up Mussel Shoals musicians, like Steve Cropper, Donald “Duck” Dunn etc., they’re ALL white guys! > > Ain’t that great? 😃 That’s not true. It was a mixture of black and white. [Motown Records](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motown_Records) wasn’t run by white people. I’ll see your Duck Dunn and raise you a [James Jamerson](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Jamerson). ---
**Author:** ![Notassmartasithought](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c0e974/32.png) [@Notassmartasithought](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Notassmartasithought)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2009, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-boy-soul-why-not-viewed-as-minstrel-show/498082/49 "2009-06-02T04:03:19Z")
For what it’s worth, 40 odd years ago the Young Rascals, later just the Rascals, who were all from white Long Island, were denied a recording contract because they sounded “to black.” If you don’t know them, look them up. Good songs, as some other recording exec decided. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-boy-soul-why-not-viewed-as-minstrel-show/498082.md?page=2)