# White colonials should consider how their whining about immigration looks **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 25, 2018, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-colonials-should-consider-how-their-whining-about-immigration-looks/826667 "2018-12-25T04:49:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2018, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-colonials-should-consider-how-their-whining-about-immigration-looks/826667/21 "2018-12-25T19:30:10Z")
Thank you ---
**Author:** ![Isosleepy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/isosleepy/32/479_2.png) [@Isosleepy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isosleepy)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2018, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-colonials-should-consider-how-their-whining-about-immigration-looks/826667/22 "2018-12-25T21:09:53Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > And there is an entire region of the world just full, full of white people like you. And you can hie thither, all of you. Except of course they cannot. Because most countries have immigration controls. Including those central American countries, by the way. And I think it makes sense for countries to control this. As a legal immigrant to the US, I firmly believe that legal and illegal immigrants should be treated differently. It was fucking _hard_ to do it legally. If you overstay your tourist visa, it _should_ be pretty damn difficult for you to get a green card. But not impossible. And that is the huge disconnect right now. If you want to legally immigrate to the US right now, you better have family here, or you can pretty much forget it. If you are not Mexican or Chinese, odds are not great. We need a better system. Maybe expand the diversity lottery to be at least half the slots. ---
**Author:** ![Springtime\_for\_Spacers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Springtime\_for\_Spacers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Springtime_for_Spacers)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2018, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-colonials-should-consider-how-their-whining-about-immigration-looks/826667/23 "2018-12-26T00:14:21Z")
> [@Tamerlane](#): > > [Automotive obstacle course.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gymkhana_(motorsport)) Goodness, I’ve only ever known it to refer to [equestrian sports](https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/gymkhana), especially involving jumping. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2018, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-colonials-should-consider-how-their-whining-about-immigration-looks/826667/24 "2018-12-26T00:42:51Z")
A gymkhana sounds simple and straightforward compared to the reality. Even “highly qualified professionals or the very wealthy”, i.e., those few eligible for an O-1 or EB-1 visa, would and should not bother applying unless they have a staff of underlings to take care of the paperwork. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2018, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-colonials-should-consider-how-their-whining-about-immigration-looks/826667/25 "2018-12-26T01:47:10Z")
> [@Springtime\_for\_Spacers](#): > > Goodness, I’ve only ever known it to refer to [equestrian sports](https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/gymkhana), especially involving jumping. That’s my experience as well. Never heard of it involving cars. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2018, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-colonials-should-consider-how-their-whining-about-immigration-looks/826667/26 "2018-12-26T04:13:07Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > That’s my experience as well. Never heard of it involving cars. And I’ve encountered it with neither vehicles nor animals, and both irl and in computerized environments, with some of the obstacles being puzzles you needed to solve. It’s just a general name for multiple types of complex obstacle courses; something like the 100m field event isn’t one because it’s too simple. The meanings given by **Piper** and\*\* Springtime\*\* are both found in one of those things, what are they called… [a dictionary!](https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/gymkhana) ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2018, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-colonials-should-consider-how-their-whining-about-immigration-looks/826667/27 "2018-12-26T04:31:16Z")
If you wanted a truly relatable reference you should have stuck with [Gymkata](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gymkata). Everyone knows Gymkata! Well, only Jonathon Cabot knows _actual_ gymkata, which is why the SIA recruited him and why the beautiful Princess Rubali could love no one else. But still…Gymkata! ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2018, 9:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-colonials-should-consider-how-their-whining-about-immigration-looks/826667/28 "2018-12-26T09:56:59Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > That it shouldn’t be an obstacle course, it shouldn’t be a multi-years-long-visit to [The House That Sends You Mad](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JtEkUmYecnk). > [@Acsenray](#): > > I want specifically to know what is a gymkhana as used there. I’ve never heard of that term except as a name of a social club. > [@Tamerlane](#): > > [Automotive obstacle course.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gymkhana_(motorsport)) I suspect that it also played a role in selecting the title of the film [_Gymkata_](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gymkata). ETA: never mind ---
**Author:** ![Swampwolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8edcca/32.png) [@Swampwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Swampwolf)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2018, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-colonials-should-consider-how-their-whining-about-immigration-looks/826667/29 "2018-12-26T17:20:48Z")
Out of curiosity (moderate liberal here, btw, who grew up with a Schoolhouse Rock vision of America – Great American Melting Pot and all that), how many generations do peoples’ families need to have been here to stop being considered “White Colonials,” and be considered just…you know, “American?” ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2018, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-colonials-should-consider-how-their-whining-about-immigration-looks/826667/30 "2018-12-26T17:48:33Z")
> [@Swampwolf](#): > > Out of curiosity (moderate liberal here, btw, who grew up with a Schoolhouse Rock vision of America – Great American Melting Pot and all that), how many generations do peoples’ families need to have been here to stop being considered “White Colonials,” and be considered just…you know, “American?” It varies. Some people immigrate here and assimilate into our culture and ways immediately, joining in on the american experience and dream from even before the moment they set foot upon our shores. Then there are those whose ancestors have been here for hundreds of years, but still look at the other people living in the country with them as foreigners to be othered. How many generations do you think that it will take White Supremacists and Confederates and Nazis to accept that they are living in a country with other, you know, “Americans?” ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2018, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-colonials-should-consider-how-their-whining-about-immigration-looks/826667/31 "2018-12-26T18:00:48Z")
> [@Swampwolf](#): > > Out of curiosity (moderate liberal here, btw, who grew up with a Schoolhouse Rock vision of America – Great American Melting Pot and all that), how many generations do peoples’ families need to have been here to stop being considered “White Colonials,” and be considered just…you know, “American?” Oddly, this aspect of identity politics echoes the original sin doctrine of Christianity. But Jesus can’t save you this time. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2018, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-colonials-should-consider-how-their-whining-about-immigration-looks/826667/32 "2018-12-26T18:23:42Z")
> [@Swampwolf](#): > > Out of curiosity (moderate liberal here, btw, who grew up with a Schoolhouse Rock vision of America – Great American Melting Pot and all that), how many generations do peoples’ families need to have been here to stop being considered “White Colonials,” and be considered just…you know, “American?” When they stop trying to define “American” in a way that excludes people who aren’t like them and came at a different time or a different circumstance than their ancestors did. If you’re still touring your own kind as the “real America” that deserves more consideration than an implied or not “fake America” then it’s fair to call you a colonialist, why not? ---
**Author:** ![EscAlaMike](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/escalamike/32/4177_2.png) [@EscAlaMike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EscAlaMike)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2018, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-colonials-should-consider-how-their-whining-about-immigration-looks/826667/33 "2018-12-26T18:57:52Z")
In immigration discussions, I have heard so many white Americans say something to the effect of “My ancestors came here the right way, they immigrated legally!”. Isn’t it true that there were effectively NO limits on European immigration until well into the 20th century? ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2018, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-colonials-should-consider-how-their-whining-about-immigration-looks/826667/34 "2018-12-26T19:11:53Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > When they stop trying to define “American” in a way that excludes people who aren’t like them and came at a different time or a different circumstance than their ancestors did. If you’re still touring your own kind as the “real America” that deserves more consideration than an implied or not “fake America” then it’s fair to call you a colonialist, why not? It’s one thing to criticize “colonialist attitudes” where they are actually apparent. But not this: > [@foolsguinea](#): > > …you have a natural right to settle your white butt in a white country, whether you’re Richard Spencer or Nancy Pelosi. And there is an entire region of the world just full, full of white people like you. And you can hie thither, all of you. That seems to me to be engaging the alt-right on their own level: granting the premise that there are different kinds of Americans who should be granted different status according to identity, and then arguing _about_ what that different status should be. There can be an ugly symmetry between right-wing racism and the extremes of left-wing identity politics. The problem is obviously an implication that all people whose ancestors were white colonists should be tarred with the same brush. It may sound more woke, but this kind of identity politics fosters the same tribal divisiveness as something like labeling all Hispanics “wetbacks”. ---
**Author:** ![carrps](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carrps/32/2957_2.png) [@carrps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carrps)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2018, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-colonials-should-consider-how-their-whining-about-immigration-looks/826667/35 "2018-12-26T19:57:53Z")
> [@DPRK](#): > > A gymkhana sounds simple and straightforward compared to the reality. Even “highly qualified professionals or the very wealthy”, i.e., those few eligible for an O-1 or EB-1 visa, would and should not bother applying unless they have a staff of underlings to take care of the paperwork. Yeah, _gymkhana_ makes me think of spoiled little rich kids on ponies. ---
**Author:** ![Swampwolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8edcca/32.png) [@Swampwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Swampwolf)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2018, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-colonials-should-consider-how-their-whining-about-immigration-looks/826667/36 "2018-12-26T20:07:45Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > When they stop trying to define “American” in a way that excludes people who aren’t like them and came at a different time or a different circumstance than their ancestors did. If you’re still touring your own kind as the “real America” that deserves more consideration than an implied or not “fake America” then it’s fair to call you a colonialist, why not? Well said! ---
**Author:** ![Huey\_Freeman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/huey_freeman/32/251_2.png) [@Huey\_Freeman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huey_Freeman)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2018, 6:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-colonials-should-consider-how-their-whining-about-immigration-looks/826667/37 "2018-12-27T06:06:39Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > The great thing about this issue is that it’s one of the few that bring together the Left and the Right. > > Liberals welcome a flood of immigrants from poorer countries under the impression that they’ll permanently swell the ranks of the Democratic Party. Conservatives (in particular, those allied with corporate interests) love the idea of a continual source of cheap, exploitable non-union labor. > > And the well off on both sides adore having a steady supply of cheap nannies, gardeners and other workers for their personal use. > > It’s just those durn American and European underclasses who think their wages and job opportunities are being depressed by illegal immigration but who are actually racists and colonials, all of 'em. Dude, you give the patchouli-smelling liberals too much credit. This’ll surprise you (and probably most white conservatives) but white liberals are not Machiavellian in their approach to politics. Not even a little bit. In fact, white liberals (especially their white leadership) are spineless traditionalists that prefer slow, incremental change. I’d love to see a cite of white liberal leadership (NanChuck or NanReid) stating that immigrants will “swell the ranks of the Democratic Party”. That logic collapses when you think significant portions of Hispanic/Latino immigrants (e.g. Cubanos) who vote Republican and identify as fiscal and/or social conservative. But, I digress. The inability for the white liberal to abandon the white conservative coupled with his or her belief that the conservatives can be “saved” (i.e. tricked, convinced, or cajoled into being more tolerant), makes the white liberal useless. The white liberal insists on clinging onto the fantasy that white conservatives can be “saved”. This sets up an interesting paradigm where white liberals care more about what white conservatives think about a policy than people of color think about a policy. This contributes to the cycle of dissatisfaction and frustration that people of color feel for white liberal leadership. Real talk. If cowardly white liberals wanted power, white liberals would have been obstructing every bill until Trump resigned or capitulated, Merrick Garland would’ve been strong-armed through, there would be plans for repeating votes for Puerto Rico, Guam, and DC Statehood, set up a secret law society that promulgates a narrow view of the Constitution and then appoint members of said society as SCOTUS judges, engage in gerrymandering (thank God for Maryland for showing these thots how to fight fire with fire). ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2018, 11:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-colonials-should-consider-how-their-whining-about-immigration-looks/826667/38 "2018-12-27T11:23:54Z")
> [@Swampwolf](#): > > Out of curiosity (moderate liberal here, btw, who grew up with a Schoolhouse Rock vision of America – Great American Melting Pot and all that), how many generations do peoples’ families need to have been here to stop being considered “White Colonials,” and be considered just…you know, “American?” I still don’t see an answer to this question. Seems to be a lot of “no u” replies. To me, the answer is obviously if you grew up in this country since you were a child, you have no other natural place to go so it would be dehumanizing to call you a colonial since you are delegitimizing their very presence in their homeland. With regards to those who want to come in right now, you can refuse them entry without prejudice. Every country in the world has some border controls. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2018, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-colonials-should-consider-how-their-whining-about-immigration-looks/826667/39 "2018-12-27T15:04:12Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > Liberals welcome a flood of immigrants from poorer countries under the impression that they’ll permanently swell the ranks of the Democratic Party. Cite? Did you learn this from the Alt-Right, the Hannity Lie Machine, or a Republioturd politician? When we want to know what liberals think, should we ask Alex Jones or Ann Coulter? ---
**Author:** ![Icarus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/icarus/32/72_2.png) [@Icarus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Icarus)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2018, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-colonials-should-consider-how-their-whining-about-immigration-looks/826667/40 "2018-12-27T15:47:41Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > To me, the answer is obviously if you grew up in this country since you were a child, you have no other natural place to go so it would be dehumanizing to call you a colonial since you are delegitimizing their very presence in their homeland. One could argue that has always been the goal of white colonialization - move into and area, have “anchor babies”, then insist they are true citizens by birthright! Sound familiar? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-colonials-should-consider-how-their-whining-about-immigration-looks/826667.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-colonials-should-consider-how-their-whining-about-immigration-looks/826667.md?page=3)