# White House announces Russian sanctions. **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [December 29, 2016, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-house-announces-russian-sanctions/775863 "2016-12-29T20:31:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2017, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-house-announces-russian-sanctions/775863/181 "2017-01-01T21:54:40Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > They voted to give the President the ability to declare war. I though he was going to use it as a threat, not declare war so quickly. The president doesn’t declare war. Congress does. They called it the “Authorization for Use of Military Force Against Iraq Resolution of 2002” and I don’t buy the argument that they thought they were voting for something other than authorization for the use of military force against Iraq. They may have quibbles with how exactly Bush used that military force, but Clinton and company voted for it. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2017, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-house-announces-russian-sanctions/775863/182 "2017-01-01T22:06:15Z")
From wikipedia: “The resolution authorized President Bush to use the Armed Forces of the United States “as he determines to be necessary and appropriate” in order to “defend the national security of the United States against the continuing threat posed by Iraq; and enforce all relevant United Nations Security Council Resolutions regarding Iraq.”” I took that to mean that is was his decision to go to war or not to. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2017, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-house-announces-russian-sanctions/775863/183 "2017-01-01T23:43:59Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I distinctly remember when a bunch of US intelligence agencies and European nations all said they had evidence that Saddam was trying to obtain WMDs. The president at the time, with access to all available details, felt the evidence was strong enough to justify a war. It was all very convincing. So convincing that even HRC voted in favor of the war. It was also all very wrong. Given that recent experience, I think a bit of skepticism here is in order. YMMV. Wow! Is that how you really believe events unfolded? That “the intelligence community” came up with all the wrong conclusions, and Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, Perle, and all the other PNAC neocons just calmly and impartially reviewed all the information _ **and then acted in good faith** _? The same bunch of PNAC neocons who had been chomping at the bit to invade Iraq and overthrow Saddam ever since the beginning of 1998? The group who had been desperately looking for a “Pearl Harbor” type of catalyzing event (their words) to justify a nation-building invasion, and to whom 9/11 was like a gift beyond their wildest dreams, so that within hours of the 9/11 attacks Rumsfeld was plotting to use it as a pretext to overthrow Saddam? Here’s a bit of a summary: [Lie by Lie: A Timeline of How We Got Into Iraq](http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2011/12/leadup-iraq-war-timeline). Note who the liars were. It wasn’t the intelligence community. Why do you think Bush and Cheney and the other lying scheming PNAC thugs [have been so widely condemned as war criminals](http://www.foreignpolicyjournal.com/2012/05/12/bush-convicted-of-war-crimes-in-absentia/)? > [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I am rationally looking at the big picture. The intelligence community gets stuff wrong sometimes. So do we all. But not to the extent that would support your claim of fundamental errors on such a major issue as this. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2017, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-house-announces-russian-sanctions/775863/184 "2017-01-02T00:46:55Z")
Yes, the intelligence community does. But let’s not let this thread get sidetracked about the war. Stay focused. ---
**Author:** ![nate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nate/32/13085_2.png) [@nate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nate)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2017, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-house-announces-russian-sanctions/775863/185 "2017-01-02T01:21:16Z")
I think Trump consults about cyber in the age of computer with his son, Baron, because he is 10 and has computers and is unbelievably good at them. The intelligence community has been wrong before so they can’t be trusted on anything ever again. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2017, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-house-announces-russian-sanctions/775863/186 "2017-01-02T01:44:44Z")
> [@nate](#): > > I think Trump consults about cyber in the age of computer with his son, Baron, because he is 10 and has computers and is unbelievably good at them. The intelligence community has been wrong before so they can’t be trusted on anything ever again. Oh, you better believe the intel community is going to be god-like infallible as soon as the Republicans need them to validate their next agenda. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2017, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-house-announces-russian-sanctions/775863/187 "2017-01-02T02:26:49Z")
> [@](#): > > President-elect Donald Trump says he knows “things that other people don’t know” about Russia’s alleged hacking during the presidential election. Speaking to reporters outside his Mar-A-Lago estate while on his way to a New Year’s Eve party on Saturday night, **Trump promised to disclose the information in a few days, saying “you will find out on Tuesday or Wednesday.”** He noted that he still believes the hacking was carried out by “somebody else,” and not Russia. [Cite](http://www.thedailybeast.com/cheats/2017/01/01/trump-promises-to-release-new-details-on-russian-hacking.html). My bold. Is anyone keeping track of Trump’s promises to disclose stuff, discuss stuff, and/or hold a press conference-- and then not following through? I know there was going to be one on how he planned to handle his businesses (that was postponed until January), and then I think there was going to be one talking about Melania’s immigration story…now there’s this one about the hacking and the hot, inside stuff he knows. Have there been other specific references to future revelatory events that did not materialize? (Or haven’t materialized yet?) I’m guessing this is just one more. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2017, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-house-announces-russian-sanctions/775863/188 "2017-01-02T02:36:12Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > [Cite](http://www.thedailybeast.com/cheats/2017/01/01/trump-promises-to-release-new-details-on-russian-hacking.html). > > My bold. > > Is anyone keeping track of Trump’s promises to disclose stuff, discuss stuff, and/or hold a press conference-- and then not following through? > > I know there was going to be one on how he planned to handle his businesses (that was postponed until January), and then I think there was going to be one talking about Melania’s immigration story…now there’s this one about the hacking and the hot, inside stuff he knows. Have there been other specific references to future revelatory events that did not materialize? (Or haven’t materialized yet?) I’m guessing this is just one more. That person in post #160, above, is probably keeping track. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Okrahoma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90db22/32.png) [@Okrahoma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Okrahoma)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2017, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-house-announces-russian-sanctions/775863/189 "2017-01-02T02:49:49Z")
Not that anyone here seems to care about this kind of stuff, but here is a very detailed analysis of the reported “Russian” hacking malware: [US Govt Data Shows Russia Used Outdated Ukrainian PHP Malware](https://www.wordfence.com/blog/2016/12/russia-malware-ip-hack/) Conclusion: "The IP addresses that DHS provided may have been used for an attack by a state actor like Russia. But they don’t appear to provide any association with Russia. They are probably used by a wide range of other malicious actors, especially the 15% of IP addresses that are Tor exit nodes. The malware sample is old, widely used and appears to be Ukrainian. It has no apparent relationship with Russian intelligence and it would be an indicator of compromise for any website." ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2017, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-house-announces-russian-sanctions/775863/190 "2017-01-02T02:50:57Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > That person in post #160, above, is probably keeping track. 😉 Wrong again. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2017, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-house-announces-russian-sanctions/775863/191 "2017-01-02T03:39:16Z")
Well, shit, I can surely wait until Tuesday or Wednesday for Il Douche’s super special information. Hell, I could wait till Thursday, comes to that. Seeing as how I expect to be totally humiliated by the brilliance of his mind, and stuff…yeah, I can wait for that. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2017, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-house-announces-russian-sanctions/775863/192 "2017-01-02T04:30:20Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I am rationally looking at the big picture. The intelligence community gets stuff wrong sometimes. They’ve done so in dramatic fashion in recent times. If you want to take their word for something, be my guest. In the land of reality-based worldviews, some of us would like to see a bit more evidence first. I’m not alone in this either: > > [Salon: Down the rabbit hole: Government’s first report on Russian hack is woefully inadequate](http://www.salon.com/2016/12/31/down-the-rabbit-hole-governments-first-report-on-russian-hack-is-woefully-inadequate/) > > [Rolling Stone: Something About This Russia Story Stinks](http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/features/something-about-this-russia-story-stinks-w458439) > > [Ars Technica: White House fails to make case that Russian hackers tampered with election](http://arstechnica.com/security/2016/12/did-russia-tamper-with-the-2016-election-bitter-debate-likely-to-rage-on/) Responding to this and similar posts, it seems clear to me that the recent JAR has been misinterpreted as an attempt to show that Russia was behind the hacks. Critics like in those articles, and several on this board, are saying that the report doesn’t have new evidence to prove Russia’s involvement. Where did you all get the idea that it was supposed to? Here is Obama’s statement from the other day: “Finally, the Department of Homeland Security and the Federal Bureau of Investigation are releasing declassified technical information on Russian civilian and military intelligence service cyber activity, to help network defenders in the United States and abroad identify, detect, and disrupt Russia’s global campaign of malicious cyber activities.” It doesn’t say that the JAR is proof that Russia did something. It’s purpose, according to the President, is to help the public defend against this campaign of cyber attacks. So the criticism that the report doesn’t prove something it was never intended to prove shows more about the ignorance of the critic - including the media organizations cited above - than it shows a weakness in the case against Russia. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2017, 5:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-house-announces-russian-sanctions/775863/193 "2017-01-02T05:51:53Z")
I think Obama is playing this cool. Not hyping it, even shrugging to some degree. It clearly outlines a need for cyber-security research on our part, making funding less a problem. No need for major outrage and threats, everybody knows that none of the girls on the street are any better than they should be. Us included. Did the Russians try to tilt the election? Probably. Did they actually interefere with our vote calibratrion? If they did, we should probably surrender, they are _way_ too smart for us! But no, they didn’t. Did it affect the election? To some degree, sure, it spread dissension in the ranks of the Dems. How many people were so pissed about Bernie getting the cold finger from the DNC that they didn’t vote for Hillary? And where do they live? Because if 100,000 if them lived in those crucial states, then, yeah…they swung the election. But I don’t know, and you don’t know, and sure as hell _they_ didn’t know! Maybe they got lucky. ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2017, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-house-announces-russian-sanctions/775863/194 "2017-01-02T15:59:00Z")
So the evidence for USA-only sanctions against Russia that will last 20 days and Putin reacted with “meh” is … we don’t know it was Russia, or anyone, but maybe it happened and maybe it didn’t? In terms of impotency, it’s up there with the evacuation of the Saigon embassy. ---
**Author:** ![Fubaya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@Fubaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fubaya)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2017, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-house-announces-russian-sanctions/775863/195 "2017-01-02T16:38:46Z")
Watching Trump and Putin’s reaction is proof enough for me. I’m so glad that people who say there isn’t enough evidence are ready to commit so fully to their own conclusions that somehow don’t require any evidence. I mean, worst case scenario is it’s just Russia fucking with us and Trump just has a cabinet loaded with crooked Russian stooges hellbent on dismantling the US government. I’m sure there’s nothing to worry about. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2017, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-house-announces-russian-sanctions/775863/196 "2017-01-02T20:19:25Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Maybe we should keep on expelling Russian “diplomats” if Putin is going to be so weak. > > Give me a ducking break. If Putin expelled US diplomats and Obama did nothing, we damn well know that nobody would be praising Obama for making Putin look weak. I’m starting to think that Russia has been tampering with water supplies because the opinions of Putin are getting so ridiculously out of touch. Is cult of personality water-soluable? I think you’re missing the context here. I can’t speak for the other contrarians on this thread, particularly sense we probably voted differently. I voted for Obama twice and I voted for Hillary Clinton. I can also see how they’re getting played like a Russian violin, and I can see that their foreign policy is part of the post-1990 Cold War status quo – and I think it needs to be seriously re-thought. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2017, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-house-announces-russian-sanctions/775863/197 "2017-01-02T20:40:37Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > I voted for Obama twice and I voted for Hillary Clinton. I can also see how they’re getting played like a Russian violin, and I can see that their foreign policy is part of the post-1990 Cold War status quo Clinton’s and Obama’s foreign policy? ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2017, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-house-announces-russian-sanctions/775863/198 "2017-01-02T22:50:34Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > I think you’re missing the context here. I can’t speak for the other contrarians on this thread, particularly sense we probably voted differently. I voted for Obama twice and I voted for Hillary Clinton. I can also see how they’re getting played like a Russian violin, and I can see that their foreign policy is part of the post-1990 Cold War status quo – and I think it needs to be seriously re-thought. The irony is that Putin’s foreign policy is pre-1990 Cold War, which needs to be rethought, but quite a few Americans can’t get enough. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2017, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-house-announces-russian-sanctions/775863/199 "2017-01-02T23:19:21Z")
> [@Fubaya](#): > > Watching Trump and Putin’s reaction is proof enough for me. > > I’m so glad that people who say there isn’t enough evidence are ready to commit so fully to their own conclusions that somehow don’t require any evidence. > > I mean, worst case scenario is it’s just Russia fucking with us and Trump just has a cabinet loaded with crooked Russian stooges hellbent on dismantling the US government. I’m sure there’s nothing to worry about. Russia has already won the cyber-war. They are laughing at us about it. Now Trump claims he knows what really happened and he’ll tell us this week. And the bad part is his followers will believe his bullshit, never mind the digital fingerprints say otherwise. People just aren’t getting how fucking stupid Trump really is. Anyone who believes Putin has any desire to be friends with the US is living in a dream world. ---
**Author:** ![Okrahoma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90db22/32.png) [@Okrahoma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Okrahoma)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2017, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-house-announces-russian-sanctions/775863/200 "2017-01-02T23:48:13Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > Russia has already won the cyber-war. They are laughing at us about it. Now Trump claims he knows what really happened and he’ll tell us this week. And the bad part is his followers will believe his bullshit, never mind the digital fingerprints say otherwise. Maybe if the CIA/FBI/another alphabet soup agency actually revealed the “digital fingerprints”… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-house-announces-russian-sanctions/775863.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-house-announces-russian-sanctions/775863.md?page=11)