# White House announces Russian sanctions. **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [December 29, 2016, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-house-announces-russian-sanctions/775863 "2016-12-29T20:31:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2017, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-house-announces-russian-sanctions/775863/201 "2017-01-03T00:05:06Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > Anyone who believes Putin has any desire to be friends with the US is living in a dream world. I think Romney pointed this out to Obama in 2012 and was told something along the lines of ‘the 1980’s called and want their foreign policy back’. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2017, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-house-announces-russian-sanctions/775863/202 "2017-01-03T00:17:59Z")
Why do you keep thinking that saying Obama isn’t all that great means that Trump isn’t an ignorant douchebag? Is it **Hurr** ’s Law of Equivalence? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2017, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-house-announces-russian-sanctions/775863/203 "2017-01-03T00:40:17Z")
We got to get ready, order some crow, because tomorrow or day after, Trump will reveal his total mastery of the issue, and we will all be scurrying for cover from the light of his blinding brilliance! Can I get a “Lockerup!”? ---
**Author:** ![Fubaya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@Fubaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fubaya)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2017, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-house-announces-russian-sanctions/775863/204 "2017-01-03T02:32:04Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > Maybe if the CIA/FBI/another alphabet soup agency actually revealed the “digital fingerprints”… I’m curious, what kind of proof would you be happy with? The X-tunnel malware recovered from the DNC hack has previously been identified by Microsoft and others as belonging to Fancy Bear. In included a hard coded IP address to a known Fancy Bear command and control computer. The same address was used during Fancy Bear’s hack of the German Parliament. Right before the DNC hack, it had been linked to [misdepatrment.com](http://misdepatrment.com), a mispelling of MIS Department, the company hired by the DNC to run it’s network. The [misdepatrment.com](http://misdepatrment.com) domain shared an SSL certificate with a different IP/domain used in the hack of the German Parliament. So, how could this malware possibly be operated by anyone else if it used a command and control tunnel belonging to Fancy Bear? ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2017, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-house-announces-russian-sanctions/775863/205 "2017-01-03T02:35:00Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I think Romney pointed this out to Obama in 2012 and was told something along the lines of ‘the 1980’s called and want their foreign policy back’. Leaving aside the fact that 2016 isn’t 2012, that’s hardly an accurate remembrance of events. ---
**Author:** ![Okrahoma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90db22/32.png) [@Okrahoma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Okrahoma)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2017, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-house-announces-russian-sanctions/775863/206 "2017-01-03T03:47:26Z")
> [@Fubaya](#): > > I’m curious, what kind of proof would you be happy with? > > The X-tunnel malware recovered from the DNC hack has previously been identified by Microsoft and others as belonging to Fancy Bear. In included a hard coded IP address to a known Fancy Bear command and control computer. The same address was used during Fancy Bear’s hack of the German Parliament. Right before the DNC hack, it had been linked to [misdepatrment.com](http://misdepatrment.com), a mispelling of MIS Department, the company hired by the DNC to run it’s network. The [misdepatrment.com](http://misdepatrment.com) domain shared an SSL certificate with a different IP/domain used in the hack of the German Parliament. > > So, how could this malware possibly be operated by anyone else if it used a command and control tunnel belonging to Fancy Bear? I am curious, where has this been published and by whom? I have not seen any government agency report that included this information. And I kinda find it funny that when I suggested in this thread that a proof would be “their IPs were in the block reserved by FSB” what I got back was the snark of "Yes, because when Russians hack stuff over the Internet they always do it from the Moscow apartments leaving a trail of Russian IP addresses everywhere, just like when they hack stuff in person they leave their KGB business cards and Secret Spy Decoder Rings behind. " ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2017, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-house-announces-russian-sanctions/775863/207 "2017-01-03T04:14:58Z")
Relax, young Trumpewan. Tomorrow, next day latest, Himself will reveal his secret knowledge of the true for reals facts, and we’ll all be too embarrassed by his brilliance and probity to even show our faces. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2017, 10:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-house-announces-russian-sanctions/775863/208 "2017-01-03T10:12:12Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Relax, young Trumpewan. Tomorrow, next day latest, Himself will reveal his secret knowledge of the true for reals facts, and we’ll all be too embarrassed by his brilliance and probity to even show our faces. I’m putting down five bucks that Trump’s secret knowledge also involves a shocking revelation about someone’s birth certificate. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2017, 10:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-house-announces-russian-sanctions/775863/209 "2017-01-03T10:46:48Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > I am curious, where has this been published and by whom? I have not seen any government agency report that included this information. > > And I kinda find it funny that when I suggested in this thread that a proof would be “their IPs were in the block reserved by FSB” what I got back was the snark of "Yes, because when Russians hack stuff over the Internet they always do it from the Moscow apartments leaving a trail of Russian IP addresses everywhere, just like when they hack stuff in person they leave their KGB business cards and Secret Spy Decoder Rings behind. " Oh just admit it: you’re not going to believe it even if all the heads of the intel agencies come out and confirm it publicly. ---
**Author:** ![Fubaya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@Fubaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fubaya)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2017, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-house-announces-russian-sanctions/775863/210 "2017-01-03T12:50:43Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > I am curious, where has this been published and by whom? I have not seen any government agency report that included this information. > > And I kinda find it funny that when I suggested in this thread that a proof would be “their IPs were in the block reserved by FSB” what I got back was the snark of "Yes, because when Russians hack stuff over the Internet they always do it from the Moscow apartments leaving a trail of Russian IP addresses everywhere, just like when they hack stuff in person they leave their KGB business cards and Secret Spy Decoder Rings behind. " I’ll get a link later, but it was in the Crowdstrike report, confirmed by the other firms that investigated it as well as pretty much every expert that’s been following the story. ---
**Author:** ![Okrahoma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90db22/32.png) [@Okrahoma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Okrahoma)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2017, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-house-announces-russian-sanctions/775863/211 "2017-01-03T13:59:52Z")
> [@Fubaya](#): > > I’ll get a link later, but it was in the Crowdstrike report, confirmed by the other firms that investigated it as well as pretty much every expert that’s been following the story. Ah I see. So Crowdstrike knows better than the “17 government agencies”? Or is it that Crowdstrike is allowed to publish things that the agencies can’t? ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2017, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-house-announces-russian-sanctions/775863/212 "2017-01-03T14:08:03Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Leaving aside the fact that 2016 isn’t 2012, that’s hardly an accurate remembrance of events. Maybe as an aside or in a PM, you could share with me how you remember events (so as not to derail the thread) ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2017, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-house-announces-russian-sanctions/775863/213 "2017-01-03T14:22:35Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > Ah I see. So Crowdstrike knows better than the “17 government agencies”? Or is it that Crowdstrike is allowed to publish things that the agencies can’t? No, the point is that the two parties with what one would reasonably expect to have the best access to information and expertise to analyze it are unanimous in their opinions, and they both seem very confident in their conclusions. (The two parties in this case are the intelligence community and the private company that was called in to respond to the attacks.) ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2017, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-house-announces-russian-sanctions/775863/214 "2017-01-03T16:22:31Z")
Careful, pals and gals! Today or tomorrow, Himself is set to crush us all with his revelations of his sooper-secret info. I am totally in cringe mode. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2017, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-house-announces-russian-sanctions/775863/215 "2017-01-03T18:20:26Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > I’m putting down five bucks that Trump’s secret knowledge also involves a shocking revelation about someone’s birth certificate. The ‘someone’ obviously being the 400-pound guy sitting on a bed. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2017, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-house-announces-russian-sanctions/775863/216 "2017-01-03T19:20:28Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > The ‘someone’ obviously being the 400-pound guy sitting on a bed. Joe Arpaio doesn’t seem to have anything to do right now. Maybe we can get him to crack this case wide open. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2017, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-house-announces-russian-sanctions/775863/217 "2017-01-03T19:27:43Z")
Looks like Himself is awful busy today, probably won’t get around to crushing us all with his secret hacking knowledge. Whew! What a relief, huh? ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2017, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-house-announces-russian-sanctions/775863/218 "2017-01-03T19:32:00Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Joe Arpaio doesn’t seem to have anything to do right now. Maybe we can get him to crack this case wide open. Oh, lordy. (The mystery is, why hasn’t Trump appointed Arpaio to a Cabinet post, yet?) ---
**Author:** ![Fubaya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@Fubaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fubaya)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2017, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-house-announces-russian-sanctions/775863/219 "2017-01-04T03:33:01Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > Ah I see. So Crowdstrike knows better than the “17 government agencies”? Or is it that Crowdstrike is allowed to publish things that the agencies can’t? Something tells me you’ve made up your mind already. The Crowdstrike report was published in June. Surely with your expertise on this subject, you’ve heard about the IP by now? There are plenty of skeptical articles relating to that IP address you can throw at us but I’ll warn you ahead of time that they fall short. The problem with this story is that the evidence is really complicated and hard to follow and all the data isn’t available to the public. Crowdstrike was retained by the DNC so their report belongs to the DNC. They have circulated the data among other researchers but unless you’re a researcher, it’s not really available. I haven’t seen it, but I have watched researchers talk about it and show the evidence trail. [Here](http://time.com/4600177/election-hack-russia-hillary-clinton-donald-trump/) is a brief rundown, a simple TIME article, and [here’s](https://www.scmagazine.com/threatconnect-fidelis-tie-fancy-bear-to-dccc-hack/article/529975/) one that’s slightly more technical. [Here](https://www.threatconnect.com/blog/tapping-into-democratic-national-committee/), [here](https://www.threatconnect.com/blog/fancy-bear-it-itch-they-cant-scratch/), and [here](http://www.threatgeek.com/2016/06/dnc_update.html) are some technical looks at it, and [here](https://twitter.com/RidT/status/751325844002529280) are security researchers finding this stuff out in real time back in June. [Here](https://www.scmagazine.com/threatconnect-guccifer-20-likely-persona-for-russian-linked-propagandists-pr-operatives-leaking-info-to-media/article/529917/) is a good indication that Guccifer 2.0 was using a Russian VPN and [here](https://www.secureworks.com/research/threat-group-4127-targets-hillary-clinton-presidential-campaign) are researchers that were watching a Fancy Bear bit.ly account as it created the phishing emails. They can tell who the targets were and, interestingly enough, none were Republican. There is very little doubt the DNC hack was done by Fancy Bear. One thing that remains unproven is whether Fancy Bear works for the Russian government. They are widely assumed to since they’ve been around for years and hit governments, militaries, political entities and their high level associates like NGOs, think tanks and universities. Thei hit the Pentagon and White House, German Parliament, etc etc. Their malware is also sophisticated enough to imply a long term government program. The “APT” is “APT 28” stands for Advanced Persistent Threat. So, maybe people in the field know for certain, but from what I can tell, it still seems like it’s a bit of an assumption to associate them with the Russian government. But they’ve also recently been found to be using malware to [target](https://www.crowdstrike.com/blog/danger-close-fancy-bear-tracking-ukrainian-field-artillery-units) Ukranian artillery units. There’s only one entity on earth this would benefit, the Russian military. So, we have two possibilities. Either Fancy Bear is working for the Russian government or they just happen to be an old, large, well funded hacking group in Russia that hacks western governments in a manner that just happens to benefit the Russian government, and they also hack Ukranian artillery units in a manner that just happens to benefit the Russian military, but they totally have nothing to do with the Russian government. Somebody is spending millions of Rubles to do this for fun, I guess? ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2017, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-house-announces-russian-sanctions/775863/220 "2017-01-04T04:27:28Z")
> [@Fubaya](#): > > Somebody is spending millions of Rubles to do this for fun, I guess? I don’t know about the “spending millions of Rubles” part, but it’s not uncommon for “hacktivists” on either side of an issue or conflict to jump in on “their side” and mess with the opposing side, and to do so without official sponsorship or support from the organization or “side” they’re helping. For example, DU was hacked on election day, but the assumption is that it was just a supporter of Trump and not an official campaign activity. There are lots of stories about this sort of activity in Syria and a few from Ukraine as well. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-house-announces-russian-sanctions/775863.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-house-announces-russian-sanctions/775863.md?page=12)