# White House announces Russian sanctions. **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [December 29, 2016, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-house-announces-russian-sanctions/775863 "2016-12-29T20:31:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Little\_Pig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c57346/32.png) [@Little\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Pig)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2016, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-house-announces-russian-sanctions/775863/41 "2016-12-30T14:35:14Z")
I was wondering if Putin was going to [follow this path](http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-38464612), and now he has. ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2016, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-house-announces-russian-sanctions/775863/42 "2016-12-30T14:36:55Z")
> [@Esox\_Lucius](#): > > IIRC, the Bush administration did the misleading, not the CIA, which you seem to acknowledge by mentioning Powell and not the CIA. > > If you think Obama is deliberately misleading everyone, there’s this from WaPo: > > [“FBI in agreement with CIA that Russia aimed to help Trump win White House”](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/clinton-blames-putins-personal-grudge-against-her-for-election-interference/2016/12/16/12f36250-c3be-11e6-8422-eac61c0ef74d_story.html) > [@](#): > > In his new book, “The Great War of Our Time: The CIA’s Fight Against Terrorism From Al Qaeda to ISIS,” former CIA Deputy Director Michael Morell apologizes to former Secretary of State Colin Powell for flawed CIA intelligence > \ > “We said he has chemical weapons, he has a biological weapons production capability, and he’s restarting his nuclear weapons program. We were wrong on all three of those,” he said. > **[Morell "wanted to apologize" to Powell about WMD evidence](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/michael-morell-apologizes-colin-powell-about-cia-pre-iraq-war-wmd-evidence/)** > > "We were wrong", says former CIA Deputy Director Michael Morell in his new book about agency's evidence that made case for Iraq war ---
**Author:** ![Pearl\_Clutching\_Provocateur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c68b51/32.png) [@Pearl\_Clutching\_Provocateur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pearl_Clutching_Provocateur)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2016, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-house-announces-russian-sanctions/775863/43 "2016-12-30T15:24:54Z")
> [@Gukumatz](#): > > Eh. Political tripwire for Trump. > > The more stuff Trump ignores in favour of cultivating US - Russian relations (or Trump-Rubel relations) the deeper in it Trump’s going to be if Putin decides to emasculate him by pulling another stunt. Like another Crimea. Transnistria, maybe. (Moldova’s UN, but not NATO. So another middle finger to the international community while still not actually crossing any thick red lines.) > > Since bizarrely the Dems are now the anti-Russia party in the US (when did that happen?), the deeper “Trump luuuvs Russia” is engrained in the electorate the greater the potential fall. It might not stick. There may be no fall. But there’s really no cost to Obama in heaping it on real thick so Trump can’t wiggle out of it, while he still can. So what the hell, right? > > I expect the real deterrents are happening on another wavelength. If Russia does anything, those utopian Scandinavian countries may need to stop being freeloaders and start paying for their defense. Maybe Canada should step in? They like to run their mouths about how they are a utopia also. Or maybe the People’s Republic of California? ---
**Author:** ![joebuck20](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/74df32/32.png) [@joebuck20](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joebuck20)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2016, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-house-announces-russian-sanctions/775863/44 "2016-12-30T15:38:47Z")
So what will happen of the Russian compounds in Long Island and Maryland. Will the Russians still maintain ownership, and if so, will they be allowed to have a caretaker come in and check on things every now and then? ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2016, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-house-announces-russian-sanctions/775863/45 "2016-12-30T15:42:10Z")
> [@up\_the\_junction](#): > > Riiiigt: paging Colin Powell. > Has any evidence come forth in relation to this “hacking” or is it one of those GWB situations where they’d like to show you but just can’t? I read [their report](https://www.scribd.com/document/335307386/JAR-16-20296#download&from_embed), and it was awfully light on details. 3 pages of mildly interesting stuff, then a list of “Reported Russian Intelligence Services” and 9 pages of generic cyber security tips. Looks like Trayvon Martin may have been one of the Russian hackers though. ETA: BTW, it doesn’t seem to discuss motives hardly if at all. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2016, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-house-announces-russian-sanctions/775863/46 "2016-12-30T15:47:17Z")
> [@Pearl\_Clutching\_Provocateur](#): > > If Russia does anything, those utopian Scandinavian countries may need to stop being freeloaders and start paying for their defense. Maybe Canada should step in? They like to run their mouths about how they are a utopia also. Or maybe the People’s Republic of California? Next time you hear somebody say tighty rightys don’t have a sense of humor, show them this! ---
**Author:** ![Pantastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3bc359/32.png) [@Pantastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pantastic)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2016, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-house-announces-russian-sanctions/775863/47 "2016-12-30T16:00:32Z")
This all seems to me like a tempest in a teapot. The US hasn’t expelled ambassadors in a while, but it’s really not unprecedented. I mean, it should be in the news but it’s not some major event, it’s not like the US is trying to embargo Russia or impose major trade restrictions. The US will kick some diplomatic staff out, Russia will probably do the same, the US cuts off some access to the US, Russia closes a school, and everyone puffs up a bit then goes back to business as usual. None of it really means anything, and none of it actually pushes towards a war. Trump will either leave the sanctions in place or revoke them to thumb his nose at the Democrats, and either way more Russian spies will operate in the US because that’s what major countries do to each other. > [@Gukumatz](#): > > Since bizarrely the Dems are now the anti-Russia party in the US (when did that happen?), It’s definitely been a theme for the 2016 election (like Clinton harping on Bernie Sanders taking a honeymoon in the USSR), it’s a big turnaround from 2012 when Obama mocked Romney for calling Russia the US’s biggest political threat. ---
**Author:** ![OwnRules](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ea666f/32.png) [@OwnRules](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OwnRules)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2016, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-house-announces-russian-sanctions/775863/48 "2016-12-30T16:21:26Z")
> [@Esox\_Lucius](#): > > Putin will be all over it like flies on a corpse because, as ordained by God Hisself, [del]Putin’s[/del] Russia’s destiny is to rule the world, just like other psychopaths before him. Which is exactly what the US has been doing for well over over a century. Are they all psychopaths, or simply using their moment in time…as has any other empire you can think of. Nothing new under the sun…especially benign empires. ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2016, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-house-announces-russian-sanctions/775863/49 "2016-12-30T16:23:06Z")
> [@Pearl\_Clutching\_Provocateur](#): > > If Russia does anything, those utopian Scandinavian countries may need to stop being freeloaders and start paying for their defense. Maybe Canada should step in? They like to run their mouths about how they are a utopia also. Or maybe the People’s Republic of California? I just want to point out that the “People’s Republic of California” pays almost 50% more to the IRS than the next closest state, around 10% of the total national income. With napkin math and 2014 numbers (first I found using google-fu), that puts their military expenditure somewhere between Russia and the United Kingdom. Those utopias only spend 1-2% less of their GDP on defense…the reason the US spends so much more is because our economy is so much larger, not because they’re slacking off. ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2016, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-house-announces-russian-sanctions/775863/50 "2016-12-30T16:27:04Z")
> [@Pantastic](#): > > like Clinton harping on Bernie Sanders taking a honeymoon in the USSR /snip I feel like that was more of an attempt to paint Sanders as a dirty Commie than anything else. A lot of older family asked, “Socialist? That’s a Communist, right?”, which is something I felt the Republican smear machine would hit him hard with if he had won the primary. Clinton just used it earlier. However, there ARE some incredible places to visit in Russia, from what I’ve been told. I might have to swing a trip there someday. ---
**Author:** ![Okrahoma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90db22/32.png) [@Okrahoma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Okrahoma)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2016, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-house-announces-russian-sanctions/775863/51 "2016-12-30T16:27:52Z")
Meantime, CNN reported that Russians are closing the Anglo-American school in Moscow in retaliation. Fake news. Russia didn’t. And Putin, laughing at Obama, says he’s not going to retaliate. And Obama admin publishes an FBI/CIA report on Russian “hacking” that just repeats the allegation and has no evidence that it was Russians whatsoever, other than the bare assertion. Makes Obama admin looks a bit… pathetic. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2016, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-house-announces-russian-sanctions/775863/52 "2016-12-30T16:49:11Z")
So, there was _no_ hacking, and the Russians didn’t do it? Or there _was_ hacking, and the Russians still didn’t do it? ---
**Author:** ![Okrahoma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90db22/32.png) [@Okrahoma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Okrahoma)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2016, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-house-announces-russian-sanctions/775863/53 "2016-12-30T17:02:01Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > So, there was _no_ hacking, and the Russians didn’t do it? Or there _was_ hacking, and the Russians still didn’t do it? There was, undoubtedly, a phishing of DNC and of Podesta which they fell for. There is ample evidence of that, in the form of the phishing emails themselves. There was no evidence in the report published yesterday that it was done by Russians. You know, something like showing that the phishing domains were registered by Russians, or that their IPs were in the block reserved by FSB. Nothing except an assertion. ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2016, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-house-announces-russian-sanctions/775863/54 "2016-12-30T17:13:27Z")
> [@yanceylebeef](#): > > I can confidently say that if, say, China had hacked the RNC and used the information provided to influence the election we would go deaf from the hue and cries of the GOP. Kind of like how the left is doing that now. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2016, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-house-announces-russian-sanctions/775863/55 "2016-12-30T17:16:09Z")
I’m starting to see why the Russians and Trump think they’ll get along so well - they have the same mindset. > [@](#): > > Russian Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Maria Zakharova called the Obama administration “a group of embittered and dimwitted foreign policy losers”. [http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-russia-cyber-idUSKBN14I1TY](http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-russia-cyber-idUSKBN14I1TY) 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2016, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-house-announces-russian-sanctions/775863/56 "2016-12-30T17:18:12Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > I think your assessment is incorrect,. > > Obama has put sanctions on Russia. When Trump reverses them while Russia is being investigated for manipulating our election, it will cost him political capital. > > When Trump reverses the overtime provisions (assuming they get around the judge’s block) that causes him political capital. > > When Trump craters the peace talks, it costs him capital. > > Every little thing Obama can do that Trump has to undo makes Trump flake off supporters, and makes those on the edge about him teeter to dislike. It’s smart. You seem to have forgotten that nothing Trump does costs him capital. If he could stand in the middle of 5th Ave and shoot someone and not lose support - a contention most Dopers seem wholeheartedly to believe - I doubt that undoing Obama’s characteristically wimpy behavior toward Russia or the other things you mention will have any discernible effect whatever. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2016, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-house-announces-russian-sanctions/775863/57 "2016-12-30T17:22:55Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > I’m starting to see why the Russians and Trump think they’ll get along so well - they have the same mindset. > > > [@](#): > > > > Russian Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Maria Zakharova called the Obama administration “a group of embittered and dimwitted foreign policy losers”. > > [http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-russia-cyber-idUSKBN14I1TY](http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-russia-cyber-idUSKBN14I1TY) > > 🙂 Sounds like the Russians have been studying Trumpspeak so as to better connect with the U.S. electorate. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2016, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-house-announces-russian-sanctions/775863/58 "2016-12-30T17:48:46Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > You seem to have forgotten that nothing Trump does costs him capital. If he could stand in the middle of 5th Ave and shoot someone and not lose support - a contention most Dopers seem wholeheartedly to believe - I doubt that undoing Obama’s characteristically wimpy behavior toward Russia or the other things you mention will have any discernible effect whatever. The people who voted for Trump are a coalition of decent, yet genuinely ignorant or misinformed people, and bottom-feeding scum. The former are movable, the latter are, I agree, not gonna shift, or would rather intensify in love for him. Remember though, Clinton would likely have won if not for the FBI shitting on the race (as per Nate Silver’s numbers), so eroding those 3% she lost due to the Weiner laptop would be easy. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2016, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-house-announces-russian-sanctions/775863/59 "2016-12-30T17:49:45Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Obama seems to be making a lot of big moves in the waning days of his administration. non-veto of anti-Israel UN resolution, creating huge new national monument in Utah, expelling Russian diplomats. Presumably you mean not just “big”, but “big and bad”, since it’s Obama. Yet it’s informative to look at the details to see whether either adjective really applies. In the order given, [ul] [li]An abstention on a resolution unfavorable to Israel is so common that virtually every president in the past 30 years has done it at least once, and some have actually voted _ **with** _ the UNSC on such resolutions.[/li][/ul] [ul] [li]The Bears Ears Buttes lands in Utah have been under consideration for federal protected status since 1936, because (quoting the NYT) “[they] encompass Native American sites of sacred and archaeological importance, as well as wildlife habitats and hiking and hunting terrain.” It’s an insignificant amount of land in the great scheme of things but it represents a disproportionate historical and environmental importance.[/li][/ul] [ul] [li]Expelling Russian diplomats is unusual, yes. So is Russian hacking of US citizens on US soil and meddling in US elections.[/li][/ul] > [@Okrahoma](#): > > There was, undoubtedly, a phishing of DNC and of Podesta which they fell for. There is ample evidence of that, in the form of the phishing emails themselves. > > There was no evidence in the report published yesterday that it was done by Russians. You know, something like showing that the phishing domains were registered by Russians, or that their IPs were in the block reserved by FSB. Nothing except an assertion. Yes, because when Russians hack stuff over the Internet they always do it from the Moscow apartments leaving a trail of Russian IP addresses everywhere, just like when they hack stuff in person they leave their KGB business cards and Secret Spy Decoder Rings behind. Alternatively, maybe when both the FBI and the CIA say the Russians did it, but cannot disclose their sources and methods, it’s reasonable to believe that the Russians did it. Especially when there’s ample evidence that they’ve also being doing the same thing in western European democracies. ---
**Author:** ![Okrahoma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90db22/32.png) [@Okrahoma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Okrahoma)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2016, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-house-announces-russian-sanctions/775863/60 "2016-12-30T17:57:14Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > Yes, because when Russians hack stuff over the Internet they always do it from the Moscow apartments leaving a trail of Russian IP addresses everywhere, just like when they hack stuff in person they leave their KGB business cards and Secret Spy Decoder Rings behind. Alternatively, maybe when both the FBI and the CIA say the Russians did it, but cannot disclose their sources and methods, it’s reasonable to believe that the Russians did it. Especially when there’s ample evidence that they’ve also being doing the same thing in western European democracies. What is your definition of “evidence”? Mine does not include “CIA says so, without providing any data whatsoever”. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-house-announces-russian-sanctions/775863.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-house-announces-russian-sanctions/775863.md?page=4)