# White House announces Russian sanctions. **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [December 29, 2016, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-house-announces-russian-sanctions/775863 "2016-12-29T20:31:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2016, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-house-announces-russian-sanctions/775863/141 "2016-12-31T16:17:07Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > [Russian hackers strike Burlington Electric with malware](http://www.burlingtonfreepress.com/story/news/local/vermont/2016/12/30/russia-hacked-us-grid-through-burlington-electric/96024326/) > > “Malware was found at the utility in a computer that was not connected to the operation of the grid, Vermont Public Service Commissioner Christopher Recchia said.” > > In fact, it was on a laptop. Probably one the user took home with him after work. > > Yet news articles breathlessly proclaimed, before being corrected, “Russian hackers penetrated US electricity grid through Vermont utility”, “U.S. officials allege Russian hackers accessed U.S. electrical grid”. > > More “Fake News”? Fake news my ass. The utility responded to a warning from the Feds and found what they were warned about BEFORE it got on their grid. I’m giving a big thumbs up to the utility’s IT department for looking as thoroughly as they did. The US has already lost the cyberwar to Russia. Russia will continue the cyber attacks now that Pres. Dipshit is more interested in making out with Pooty than call him the criminal he is. Thank Og there’s at least one Republican with enough brains to see it as it is. John McCain.called Russian hacking an “act of war.” > **[McCain: Russian cyberintrusions an ‘act of war’ | CNN Politics](https://www.cnn.com/2016/12/30/politics/mccain-cyber-hearing/)** > > Sen. John McCain said Friday that Russia’s alleged meddling in the 2016 presidential election amounted to an “act of war.” ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2016, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-house-announces-russian-sanctions/775863/142 "2016-12-31T16:45:02Z")
Really? And you think this is a sign of brains on McCain’s part? What is the usual response to an act of war, do you think? Are you ready for us to start throwing men and bombs at the Russians? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2016, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-house-announces-russian-sanctions/775863/143 "2016-12-31T17:25:12Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > Fake news my ass. The utility responded to a warning from the Feds and found what they were warned about BEFORE it got on their grid. I’m giving a big thumbs up to the utility’s IT department for looking as thoroughly as they did… Might just be an example of cyber-cancer, where the original code replicates beyond its original target. I recall reading that similar things had been observed about the Stuxnet virus unleashed upon the Iranians. Are American hackers smarter than Russians? In blind ignorance, I would guess so. And I am amused by the notion of the CIA and FBI recruiting underground Snapple addicted hackers. Could be the basis for an entertaining sit-com, given the cultural dissonance. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2016, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-house-announces-russian-sanctions/775863/144 "2016-12-31T17:39:29Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Might just be an example of cyber-cancer, where the original code replicates beyond its original target. I wonder if the hackers sought out employees by name, hoping they would take the virus to work, as you mentioned with the Iranians. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2016, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-house-announces-russian-sanctions/775863/145 "2016-12-31T17:42:58Z")
I was thinking of it as being more or less “spontaneous”, like DNA coding that does not actually perform a function, but replicates nonetheless. But I understand less about computer hacking than I do about quantum mechanics, or women. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2016, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-house-announces-russian-sanctions/775863/146 "2016-12-31T17:47:12Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > I wonder if the hackers sought out employees by name, hoping they would take the virus to work, as you mentioned with the Iranians. That’s hacking 101. Find someone who works where you want to attack, infect their computer and hope they plug in when they get to work. When I worked in a SCIF, you weren’t allowed to bring in anything electronic, ever. We’re going to have to get a lot smarter about cyber security. Just wait 'til they infiltrate a nuke plant. ---
**Author:** ![Esox\_Lucius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/848f3c/32.png) [@Esox\_Lucius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esox_Lucius)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2016, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-house-announces-russian-sanctions/775863/147 "2016-12-31T20:13:20Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > I noticed how your response really waltzed right past the fundamental problem that we have in dealing with Russia, which is the unwillingness to view things from the perspective of an adversary. > > You can acknowledge that Russia’s behavior is illegal and unethical, and yet you can also understand why the behave in such brutish fashion. The fact is that the United States is really in no position to dictate to Russia whom it can invade and whom it can’t – we lost that ‘moral authority’ in 2002 (if not before then). The US has been in Afghanistan TWICE as long as Russia was in Afghanistan, and there’s no end in sight. The US completely invaded a sovereign state on specious grounds and deposed its leader. Half this government has openly discussed attacking Iran. That’s saying nothing of the fact that the US military machine essentially encircles Russia and has periodically threatened to put missiles on her border – the exact same conduct that led to the Cuban Missile Crisis of 1962. > > Clearly, sanctions and escalations aren’t working – they’re just provoking Putin and convincing him to dig in even deeper, with largely the full support of his government supporters and his people. Maybe a little perspective can go a long way? It’s probably more effective than half-assed parting shots or political consequences that Putin basically laughs at. I didn’t waltz past anything. I can understand why Russia behaves brutishly and still not cave in to it. Sanctions are a long game that take time to work. Until the recent campaign, Obama had every reason to expect that his successor, Democrat or Republican, would continue to see Russia for what it is and keep the pressure on it somehow because that’s been the default position of the West against an aggressive tyrant. But because the U.S. took a schizophrenic turn and elected a president with Putin’s shit on his nose and semen around his mouth, Obama didn’t have the right to sanction Russia because…Bush invaded Iraq? What didn’t Obama do that he should have? Start a war? Give Putin free rein? ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2016, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-house-announces-russian-sanctions/775863/148 "2016-12-31T21:13:17Z")
> [@Esox\_Lucius](#): > > Sanctions are a long game that take time to work. Until the recent campaign, Obama had every reason to expect that his successor, Democrat or Republican, would continue to see Russia for what it is and keep the pressure on it somehow because that’s been the default position of the West against an aggressive tyrant. But because the U.S. took a schizophrenic turn and elected a president with Putin’s shit on his nose and semen around his mouth, Obama didn’t have the right to sanction Russia because…Bush invaded Iraq? Seriously. Also, Iraq isn’t a US colony. The US doesn’t collect taxes from Iraqis. The US doesn’t ‘take their oil’ (as Man-Baby stated he wants to do). Bush invading Iraq =/= Putin annexing Crimea. The US has plenty of moral standing for opposition to Putin’s land grabs–the Iraq war did not dilute it. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2016, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-house-announces-russian-sanctions/775863/149 "2016-12-31T21:32:41Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > Iraq isn’t a US colony. The US doesn’t collect taxes from Iraqis. The US doesn’t ‘take their oil’ (as Man-Baby stated he wants to do). Blackwater and some oil barons made some money. That the USA was an asshole towards Iraq doesn’t mean that anyone else can screw another country with impunity and we not call out. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2016, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-house-announces-russian-sanctions/775863/150 "2016-12-31T21:45:23Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > Blackwater and some oil barons made some money. > > That the USA was an asshole towards Iraq doesn’t mean that anyone else can screw another country with impunity and we not call out. Yes. If the principle were actually _he that is without sin, let him cast the first stone_, then there would be no such thing as international diplomacy at all. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2016, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-house-announces-russian-sanctions/775863/151 "2016-12-31T22:03:56Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > I noticed how your response really waltzed right past the fundamental problem that we have in dealing with Russia, which is the unwillingness to view things from the perspective of an adversary. What you fail to address is that plenty of people can see things from the perspective of an adversary, but that doesn’t mean we have to give them a pass. One can understand precisely how bin Laden viewed the world; doesn’t mean you can’t plot to kill him. We can play touchy-feely with Putin’s inferiority complexes forever, doesn’t mean we should just let him invade countries who haven’t attacked Russia in any way, shape or form. And if you play that silly “we are such hypocrites” card, then how about this: on the basis of Russian invasions of Georgia and Ukraine, the US is justified in invading Canada to protect English-speaking people who are oppressed there. Right? And remember the “reset” of Russian ties that Obama attempted in 2009? Ther hasn’t been any “encirclement” of Russia since then, as it comes to NATO, yet you keep trotting out that excuse for why Putin has become such an aggressive dictator in the last few years. ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2016, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-house-announces-russian-sanctions/775863/152 "2016-12-31T22:27:21Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > Bush invading Iraq =/= Putin annexing Crimea. > > The US has plenty of moral standing for opposition to Putin’s land grabs–the Iraq war did not dilute it. Jesus wept. Like half a million dead civilians mean nothing at all. After 50 years of destroying democracies in central and south America and MENA, the world knows exactly, Democrat, Republican and likely Trump, what the USA is about. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2016, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-house-announces-russian-sanctions/775863/153 "2016-12-31T22:43:12Z")
> [@up\_the\_junction](#): > > Jesus wept. Like half a million dead civilians mean nothing at all. > > After 50 years of destroying democracies in central and south America and MENA, the world knows exactly, Democrat, Republican and likely Trump, what the USA is about. How did you manage to get “half a million dead civilians mean nothing at all” from my post? I made no remark that stated or implied that US actions in Iraq ‘meant nothing at all.’ I merely pointed out the utter _non-equivalency_ of Putin’s annexing Crimea with George Bush’s attempt to punish Saddam Hussein for dissing his father and for imagined responsibility for the 9-11 attacks—the _alleged equivalency having been the topic under discussion_. I offered no endorsement of any kind of US overseas actions. The US is morally justified in saying ‘you can’t annex a neighboring nation’ even if the US has failed to be pacifist and/or neutral and/or non-interventionist. When the US _does_ annex a neighboring nation, that moral standing will cease to exist. ---
**Author:** ![Okrahoma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90db22/32.png) [@Okrahoma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Okrahoma)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2016, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-house-announces-russian-sanctions/775863/154 "2016-12-31T22:50:40Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > The US is morally justified in saying ‘you can’t annex a neighboring nation’ even if the US has failed to be pacifist and/or neutral and/or non-interventionist. When the US _does_ annex a neighboring nation, that moral standing will cease to exist. Annexation of Texas. ---
**Author:** ![Okrahoma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90db22/32.png) [@Okrahoma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Okrahoma)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2017, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-house-announces-russian-sanctions/775863/155 "2017-01-01T00:32:48Z")
BTW, for those who’re interested - here’s a techie community reaction to the “FBI/CIA report” (hardly a “right wing” post) > **[White House fails to make case that Russian hackers tampered with election](https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2016/12/did-russia-tamper-with-the-2016-election-bitter-debate-likely-to-rage-on/)** > > US issued JAR billed itself as an indictment that would prove Russian involvement. for the TL;DR crowd: “Thursday’s Joint Analysis Report provides almost no new evidence to support the Obama Administration’s claims Russia attempted to interfere with the US electoral process.” ---
**Author:** ![Fubaya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@Fubaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fubaya)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2017, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-house-announces-russian-sanctions/775863/156 "2017-01-01T00:55:33Z")
I don’t know what people expected from a Joint Analysis Report. This one is just like the others they release. It’s not meant to be proof of anything, it is meant to be a brief guideline to help people defend against the threat. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2017, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-house-announces-russian-sanctions/775863/157 "2017-01-01T01:15:18Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > Annexation of Texas. I think they joined up, although they changed their mind a few years later. Go for New Mexico, Nevada, California and other states that were annexed from Mexico. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2017, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-house-announces-russian-sanctions/775863/158 "2017-01-01T01:25:38Z")
Well, ignoring little movements like Calexit, if you ask most states about it, they’ll say they’re happy to be in the US. Now ask the former Soviet republics. Yeah, most of them got the hell out as soon as they could and some still want out. I think we’ve got the moral high ground on the annexation issue. ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2017, 9:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-house-announces-russian-sanctions/775863/159 "2017-01-01T09:19:37Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > I merely pointed out the utter _non-equivalency_ of Putin’s annexing Crimea with George Bush’s attempt to punish Saddam Hussein for dissing his father and for imagined responsibility for the 9-11 attacks—the _alleged equivalency having been the topic under discussion_. I offered no endorsement of any kind of US overseas actions. Oh okay. NYE confusion on my part. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2017, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-house-announces-russian-sanctions/775863/160 "2017-01-01T15:50:55Z")
Trump still can’t admit his boyfriend had anything to do with this. > [@](#): > > Trump, who has said that he plans to meet with intelligence officials next to week to learn more about the allegations, said he wants U.S. officials “to be sure because it’s a pretty serious charge.” He pointed to intelligence failures over the existence of weapons of mass destruction in Iraq before the U.S. invasion, and declared himself an expert in the area. > > “I know a lot about hacking. And hacking is a very hard thing to prove, so it could be somebody else,” he said. > > He added, cryptically, that he also knows “things that other people don’t know. And so they cannot be sure of the situation.” [Cite](http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/politics/ct-trump-computers-20161231-story.html) \ 'Cause Trump _knows_ shit. Shit that even all the intelligence agencies don’t know. 'Cause he’s, like, smart. :smack: [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-house-announces-russian-sanctions/775863.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-house-announces-russian-sanctions/775863.md?page=9)