/snip
Trump said HE had information that ONLY HE had. He promised to give this information to the American people 2 or 3 days ago, and has given no information at all. Is Der Trump holding back vital information from the American people, or is he, once again, full of fecal matter? Good job ignoring the actual timeline for your alternate one, by the way.
Only reason I doubt that is because we are kinda puny, demographic wise. We are surely the very cream of the cognoscenti, but we’re the only ones smart enough to realize it.
Doesn’t cost much to service this site, because any paid operative has a number of sites assigned to him (or her).
What the overseas paid operatives post differs slightly from what alt-right Americans tend to post (this is averages rather than absolutes). Alt-right Americans are less likely to zero in on how awful democracy is, for one thing. And where people post tells a tale, too: any thread with ‘Putin’ or ‘Russia’ in the title will draw the operatives.
Look for clumsy attempts to make use of pop-culture icons and heroes in screen-names and random mentions; one suspects they are working off lists (‘this will appeal to Americans and make them feel identification with what you post’ or such is probably the theory at work.)
(Here I am posting again when I said I wouldn’t. If a mod feels this must be deleted, that’s fine.)
Egotist te absolvo. Stay, and sin somewhat less. Whatever you can manage.
Well, I meant I wouldn’t post more about the presence of paid operatives (though maybe we are allowed to discuss it in the Pit? I don’t spend much time there so am not sure if such threads are allowed).
Leave? Inconceivable! I just paid my membership renewal!! (Actually it was a while ago, now that I look. It was back when we had a President who wasn’t a ridiculous person.)
Could you PM me a post or two that you think came from paid Russian trolls? I have somehow missed them all.
Actually a good question. I’ve seen a lot of trollish behavior here in the last year, but it being directed or paid I’m skeptical of. And frankly, it seems that trolling picked up after the election. Nothing to back that up with, just a feeling.
There was one a number of months ago that I was pretty sure of. He may have been banned. I’ll see if I can find the thread.
I was sure it was happening. I started a thread on it and I was assured that it would be very difficult to do here.
There are people who seem to be downplaying things suspiciously (right now of course there are a lot of things that are like big red exploding zits on the face of the country but that some people are waving off) but then again there are lots of shitty people and people duel and dig in and get addicted to the red meat of it.
I read the report. I was right.
The Russians did nothing of consequence.
In an nutshell, what happened is that they had somebody tweet that “Hillary Clinton is a nasty woman”.
That’s the sum total of signficance of what happened.
Yes, they had their messages retweeted by a million fake Russian Twitter bot accounts. I could see that for myself. Just a routine technique of amplifying your tweets. Everybody does that. You buy these fake accounts by the thousand with your credit card.
Or their messages would take the form of a Facebook post (again, amplified by a million fake FB bot accounts). Or a troll post on a message board. Maybe including this one. Or a series of right-wing or fake news items on a news site.
So what?
Millions of Americans do this every day. Of their own volition. Because they feel compelled to. Perhaps because they enjoy it. So do a handful of Russians.
While I had trouble at first believing that people in the Russian Government would actually organize this (didn’t see why they’d have to), I do now believe they did.
Small potatoes, benign stuff compared to what they normally do.
IT’S JUST A TWEET, PEOPLE (or FB post, etc.)
At least there’s one person who gets it right. President Obama. In his last press conference.
There was nothing bad in the emails. There’s nothing to get worked up about when you disagree with someone’s tweet. It’s not important, people.
Anything, even a butterfly flapping it’s wing on the other side of the world, that helped elect Donald Motherfucking Trump as the President of the United States is important.
Nice try. But, no.
First, you posted Obama’s remarks from a press conference he gave over three weeks ago as if they were his reaction to the newly-released report from the Office of the Director of National Intelligence. They were not.
Second, you disingenuously misinterpreted Obama’s remarks as a statement from him that It’s Not Important (or that the Russian actions were trivial or meaningless or for some other reason, deserve no attention). Obama’s remarks meant nothing of the kind.
Obama was NOT saying that the Russian actions were ‘not important.’ What he was saying is that it’s concerning that various factions or groups of Americans can take unimportant pieces of information (that happened to be leaked through Russian means), and turn that trivia into fixations, obsessions that dominate the news. Obama was commenting on the lack of proportionality–leaks about unimportant things assumed massive importance that they did not merit.
Obama was not giving the free pass to Russian actions that you claim he was. Obama was saying 'what Russia did had an important impact–though it should not have had that impact because what was leaked did not deserve the obsessive attention it got.’
And, yes, he was saying that more than three weeks ago. Those remarks were NOT his reaction to the newly-released ODNI report.
Try again.
You misunderstood. I said clearly they were from his last press conference. I watched it live on Youtube. So I know very well it was three weeks ago.
I quoted his reaction to the subject of “Russian hacking” in general. This stuff is not new news. It is old news.
He was extremely right in his reaction to the “Russian hacking”, not only in the quoted part but other parts of the press conference as well. Very much worth a watch. (Here)
You misunderstood again. Obama ordered the services to write this high profile report about it. He expelled some of the Russians who were involved in this. And other sanctions. So he clearly thinks it is important.
What I read in the quoted part of his remarks is some kind of puzzlement about “why do people take this so seriously?”
Which is what I’m saying, too.
Trump: Only ‘stupid’ people, fools oppose better Russia ties.
Imagine that, Trump speaking about stupid people and fools.
Trump isn’t so bad. He’s just obsessed with other, more important (to him) issues.
Trump calls hacking probe ‘witch hunt,’ then calls intelligence briefing ‘constructive’
It’s the press which gets it totally wrong. Trying to make a big scandal and crisis out of everything. Trying to reinforce Trump as their established fairy tale villain. Spinning everything into a satisfying, good-vs-evil narrative.
No they haven’t.
No it hasn’t.
It was a good report. A good summary bringing together everything we know about the current state of Russian propaganda. Which everybody already knows. I knew all of this as a kid. Note how the report touches on the continuity of Russian propaganda efforts to the time of the cold war and earlier. Also nice to see how the American services are quite on top of things, as they should be. Spear fishing, wow!
The report carefully avoid spinning any of this into a scandal. It is a sober summary of facts.
Also, there was no “investigation”. I can’t see where there was any bigger “investigation” out of the ordinary. This stuff goes on all the time. Investigation goes on all the time. Obama just ordered up this snapshot of the situation right now.
An A for Obama. A C for Trump. An F- for the scandalmongering, idiocy-reinforcing press.
True, a sober assessment of the facts. But there wasn’t any reason to spin it into a scandal, the facts are outrageous enough in themselves. A “spin” to a “scandal” would be a downplay, a scandal is a cherry bomb, this is a blockbuster. A calm, sober blockbuster.
Could you be more disingenuous? I think not: you began the post in question with
…and at no point said anything about ‘now it’s worth looking at what Obama’s general reaction to the topic of Russian hacking sounded like a few weeks back’ or ‘Obama said this three weeks before the report was released’ or anything of the kind, before mentioning “his last press conference.” Of course you knew that most readers don’t have before them the calendar of Obama’s press conferences, and would naturally assume, given the construction of your post, that the remarks of Obama you quoted were in response to the just-released report.
We’ve now established that you are not posting in good faith. And like your comrades in disinformation, you are sticking to the party line:
1A: Russian Hacking has no measurable consequences for the USA!
1B: Russian hacking is no big deal because every nation hacks! And Russian intervention in US affairs has always been going on! Which proves it’s not worth attention!
2: Trump is basically sound!
3: The media is Bad and Wrong, always! Do not, repeat, do not, place any trust in the watchdogs of Democracy! That would be a terrible error!!!1!!!
You really should print this out and use it to apply for better recognition–you’re hitting a very good selection of the most fallacious talking points of your ideology.
Aside from that:
Again, that’s not remotely what Obama’s remarks (from December 16) meant. He was not saying ‘why do people take this so seriously’–he was saying that the content that was leaked via Russian means was taken seriously when it didn’t merit serious concern. He was not saying that the Russian involvement in the leaking shouldn’t be taken seriously.
Here’s the transcript of his December 16 remarks:
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1612/16/cnr.08.html
It’s not important when he said it. Obama’s comments stand alone on their merits regardless of what their occasion was.
[QUOTE=Sherrerd]
1A: Russian Hacking has no measurable consequences for the USA!
[/quote]
I didn’t say that. If a mere bunch of unimportant tweets has measurable consequences then the problem lies somewhere else, is what I said.
[QUOTE=Sherrerd]
1B: Russian hacking is no big deal because every nation hacks! And Russian intervention in US affairs has always been going on! Which proves it’s not worth attention!
[/quote]
I didn’t say it’s not worth attention. Read the report. Very much worth attention. But it is getting the wrong kind of attention (scandalmongering, etc., instead of calm analysis)
[QUOTE=Sherrerd]
2: Trump is basically sound!
[/quote]
Didn’t say that. Trump is an idiot. I said his response in this particular case was not nearly as bad as the scandalmongering press makes it sound.
Sometimes…
I agree. And your ealier post…
Here you said exactly what I meant and you said it better than I did. Guess I’ll leave it at that.
Depends, doesn’t it? Forgive if I wax anecdotal, but I have several friends and acquaintances of long-standing that I talk to mostly by way of Facebook. I recall with dismay the amazing numbers of “news reports” linked and shared from organizations with fakey-sounding names that I had never heard of, informing me of dastardly plots by the DNC to sink the good ship Bernie. They were all over the place, if I had a dollar for every one I saw, I could buy a hacky-sack stuffed with gold dust.
A lot of them were put forward or cited by friends who’s devotion to Bernie bordered on the fanatical. I cannot tell you how much time I spent arguing with otherwise sensible people who would not, not ever, ever, evah! vote for Hillary because the DNC made his hair look like it was combed with a weed-whacker, or some such.
How many people made that decision and stuck with it, despite the looming dread of the Orange Plague? I don’t know, have no clue as to how to find out. More importantly, how many of those people were spread through those crucial states? Again, don’t know, can’t find out.
But if enough of them were scattered through those states…what was the number, 80,000?..then yes, a fair case can be made that this swung the election.
Did the Russian hackers know that? I doubt it, but its only doubt. More likely they just dredged up what they could and splatted it against the wall. But who put up all those fake stories about the DNC threatening Bernies cats? Perhaps it was only to sow dissension in the ranks of the Dems, and they just got lucky! We sure as hell didn’t.
So, if you can prove that none of this happened, well…good luck with that. Most likely, you will just stamp your foot and declare it so. But if we are in the world of the possible, this remains possible.
Apparently, there has been a lot of information available concerning Russian activities over the decades. WHAT information did Trump have, and WHO did he receive it from? WHY didn’t the Obama administration deal with these Russian activities months before he did? Those are three great questions that you should ask the news media to find out for you. It’s also apparent that the Obama administration had information concerning Russian activities since 2015. Were they holding back vital information from the American people?
From the “Assessing Russian Activities and Intentions in Recent US Elections” report -
…*The Kremlin’s principal international propaganda outlet RT (formerly Russia Today) has actively collaborated with WikiLeaks. RT’s editor-in-chief visited WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange at the Ecuadorian Embassy in London in August 2013, where they discussed renewing his broadcast contract with RT, according to Russian and Western media. Russian media subsequently announced that RT had become “the only Russian media company” to partner with WikiLeaks and had received access to “new leaks of secret information.” RT routinely gives Assange sympathetic coverage and provides him a platform to denounce the United States.
…A journalist who is a leading expert on the Internet Research Agency claimed that some social media accounts that appear to be tied to Russia’s professional trolls—because they previously were devoted to supporting Russian actions in Ukraine—started to advocate for President-elect Trump as early as December 2015.
…In the 1970s, the KGB recruited a Democratic Party activist who reported information about then-presidential hopeful Jimmy Carter’s campaign and foreign policy plans, according to a former KGB archivist.*