White House announces Russian sanctions.

I was wondering if Putin was going to follow this path, and now he has.

If Russia does anything, those utopian Scandinavian countries may need to stop being freeloaders and start paying for their defense. Maybe Canada should step in? They like to run their mouths about how they are a utopia also. Or maybe the People’s Republic of California?

So what will happen of the Russian compounds in Long Island and Maryland. Will the Russians still maintain ownership, and if so, will they be allowed to have a caretaker come in and check on things every now and then?

I read their report, and it was awfully light on details. 3 pages of mildly interesting stuff, then a list of “Reported Russian Intelligence Services” and 9 pages of generic cyber security tips. Looks like Trayvon Martin may have been one of the Russian hackers though.

ETA: BTW, it doesn’t seem to discuss motives hardly if at all.

Next time you hear somebody say tighty rightys don’t have a sense of humor, show them this!

This all seems to me like a tempest in a teapot. The US hasn’t expelled ambassadors in a while, but it’s really not unprecedented. I mean, it should be in the news but it’s not some major event, it’s not like the US is trying to embargo Russia or impose major trade restrictions. The US will kick some diplomatic staff out, Russia will probably do the same, the US cuts off some access to the US, Russia closes a school, and everyone puffs up a bit then goes back to business as usual. None of it really means anything, and none of it actually pushes towards a war. Trump will either leave the sanctions in place or revoke them to thumb his nose at the Democrats, and either way more Russian spies will operate in the US because that’s what major countries do to each other.

It’s definitely been a theme for the 2016 election (like Clinton harping on Bernie Sanders taking a honeymoon in the USSR), it’s a big turnaround from 2012 when Obama mocked Romney for calling Russia the US’s biggest political threat.

Which is exactly what the US has been doing for well over over a century. Are they all psychopaths, or simply using their moment in time…as has any other empire you can think of.

Nothing new under the sun…especially benign empires.

I just want to point out that the “People’s Republic of California” pays almost 50% more to the IRS than the next closest state, around 10% of the total national income. With napkin math and 2014 numbers (first I found using google-fu), that puts their military expenditure somewhere between Russia and the United Kingdom. Those utopias only spend 1-2% less of their GDP on defense…the reason the US spends so much more is because our economy is so much larger, not because they’re slacking off.


I feel like that was more of an attempt to paint Sanders as a dirty Commie than anything else. A lot of older family asked, “Socialist? That’s a Communist, right?”, which is something I felt the Republican smear machine would hit him hard with if he had won the primary. Clinton just used it earlier.

However, there ARE some incredible places to visit in Russia, from what I’ve been told. I might have to swing a trip there someday.

Meantime, CNN reported that Russians are closing the Anglo-American school in Moscow in retaliation. Fake news. Russia didn’t. And Putin, laughing at Obama, says he’s not going to retaliate.

And Obama admin publishes an FBI/CIA report on Russian “hacking” that just repeats the allegation and has no evidence that it was Russians whatsoever, other than the bare assertion.

Makes Obama admin looks a bit… pathetic.

So, there was no hacking, and the Russians didn’t do it? Or there was hacking, and the Russians still didn’t do it?

There was, undoubtedly, a phishing of DNC and of Podesta which they fell for. There is ample evidence of that, in the form of the phishing emails themselves.

There was no evidence in the report published yesterday that it was done by Russians. You know, something like showing that the phishing domains were registered by Russians, or that their IPs were in the block reserved by FSB. Nothing except an assertion.

Kind of like how the left is doing that now.

I’m starting to see why the Russians and Trump think they’ll get along so well - they have the same mindset.


You seem to have forgotten that nothing Trump does costs him capital. If he could stand in the middle of 5th Ave and shoot someone and not lose support - a contention most Dopers seem wholeheartedly to believe - I doubt that undoing Obama’s characteristically wimpy behavior toward Russia or the other things you mention will have any discernible effect whatever.

Sounds like the Russians have been studying Trumpspeak so as to better connect with the U.S. electorate.

The people who voted for Trump are a coalition of decent, yet genuinely ignorant or misinformed people, and bottom-feeding scum. The former are movable, the latter are, I agree, not gonna shift, or would rather intensify in love for him.

Remember though, Clinton would likely have won if not for the FBI shitting on the race (as per Nate Silver’s numbers), so eroding those 3% she lost due to the Weiner laptop would be easy.

Presumably you mean not just “big”, but “big and bad”, since it’s Obama. Yet it’s informative to look at the details to see whether either adjective really applies. In the order given,

[li]An abstention on a resolution unfavorable to Israel is so common that virtually every president in the past 30 years has done it at least once, and some have actually voted with the UNSC on such resolutions.[/li][/ul]

[li]The Bears Ears Buttes lands in Utah have been under consideration for federal protected status since 1936, because (quoting the NYT) “[they] encompass Native American sites of sacred and archaeological importance, as well as wildlife habitats and hiking and hunting terrain.” It’s an insignificant amount of land in the great scheme of things but it represents a disproportionate historical and environmental importance.[/li][/ul]

[li]Expelling Russian diplomats is unusual, yes. So is Russian hacking of US citizens on US soil and meddling in US elections.[/li][/ul]

Yes, because when Russians hack stuff over the Internet they always do it from the Moscow apartments leaving a trail of Russian IP addresses everywhere, just like when they hack stuff in person they leave their KGB business cards and Secret Spy Decoder Rings behind. Alternatively, maybe when both the FBI and the CIA say the Russians did it, but cannot disclose their sources and methods, it’s reasonable to believe that the Russians did it. Especially when there’s ample evidence that they’ve also being doing the same thing in western European democracies.

What is your definition of “evidence”? Mine does not include “CIA says so, without providing any data whatsoever”.