# White house fence jumper : what was supposed to happen? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [September 30, 2014, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-house-fence-jumper-what-was-supposed-to-happen/700036 "2014-09-30T23:44:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2014, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-house-fence-jumper-what-was-supposed-to-happen/700036/21 "2014-10-01T17:40:52Z")
I always thought the goal was not to shoot first and ask questions later, simply because the Secret Service wanted the intruder alive so there _could_ be questions asked later – specifically to find out whether it’s a lone nut, or part of an attack plan. John Hinckley, for example. Taken down pretty convincingly, but not shot. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2014, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-house-fence-jumper-what-was-supposed-to-happen/700036/22 "2014-10-01T18:34:42Z")
> [@kunilou](#): > > The front door was left unlocked, nor was there a guard at the door. AP Radio News was reporting that there was a guard at the door, who was in the process of locking the door when knocked down by the intruder. That’s not true? ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2014, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-house-fence-jumper-what-was-supposed-to-happen/700036/23 "2014-10-01T19:27:00Z")
At what point would this guy have become a squatter, requiring formal eviction procedures? ---
**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2014, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-house-fence-jumper-what-was-supposed-to-happen/700036/24 "2014-10-01T19:33:08Z")
> [@kunilou](#): > > According to this story in the [Washington Post](http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/white-house-fence-jumper-made-it-far-deeper-into-building-than-previously-known/2014/09/29/02efd53e-47ea-11e4-a046-120a8a855cca_story.html) > > The surveillance team that’s supposed to watch the perimeter didn’t see the intruder jump the fence. > > There was supposed to be a guard dog set loose if the human guards couldn’t reach the intruder. The dog was available, but not used. > > The alarms which were supposed to alert everyone had been silenced because false alarms had disturbed the White House staff. > > The front door was left unlocked, nor was there a guard at the door. > > I’d say that’s enough questions to start with. Item 1 is pretty much inexcusable. Item 2 might be understandable in some contexts, but I don’t think this is one of them. Item 3 is laughable…or would be if it weren’t actually true. The tightest, most secure, most unbreachable security system in the world isn’t worth a damn\*\*\* if you don’t turn it on\*\*\*. Item 4 I don’t actually have a big problem with, in theory at least. If there is one building in the country that shouldn’t \*need \*to have its doors locked, that should be the White House. After all, it has a team of security guards watching the perimeter, guards with canine units patrolling the grounds, and alarms to sound upon any intrusion. Oh, wait… ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2014, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-house-fence-jumper-what-was-supposed-to-happen/700036/25 "2014-10-01T20:09:09Z")
The secret service lately seem to be a textbook example of [security theater.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Security_theater) ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2014, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-house-fence-jumper-what-was-supposed-to-happen/700036/26 "2014-10-01T20:13:46Z")
The 2011 incident is what really amazes me, that someone could drive up and spray the residential windows with bullets without the Secret Service even _noticing_. With so many errors (and so much lack of candor) surfacing, I wonder if the agency will even survive in its current form, or whether some drastic realignment is in store, such as folding the Service into the FBI. ---
**Author:** ![control-z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/eada6e/32.png) [@control-z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/control-z)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2014, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-house-fence-jumper-what-was-supposed-to-happen/700036/27 "2014-10-01T20:30:15Z")
There should have been interlocking fields of fire from multiple fully automatic .50 turrets. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2014, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-house-fence-jumper-what-was-supposed-to-happen/700036/28 "2014-10-02T01:41:07Z")
> [@control-z](#): > > There should have been interlocking fields of fire from multiple fully automatic .50 turrets. paintball guns, tins of Spam… Pretty much anything they come up with has to be better. ---
**Author:** ![dba\_Fred](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c37758/32.png) [@dba\_Fred](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dba_Fred)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2014, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-house-fence-jumper-what-was-supposed-to-happen/700036/29 "2014-10-02T02:06:15Z")
The White House needs a moat, stocked with sharks with frickin’ laser beams attached to their heads! ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2014, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-house-fence-jumper-what-was-supposed-to-happen/700036/30 "2014-10-02T02:17:34Z")
[Julia Pierson is resigning.](http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/02/us/julia-pierson-secret-service.html?_r=0) ---
**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2014, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-house-fence-jumper-what-was-supposed-to-happen/700036/31 "2014-10-02T04:09:52Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > The person that caught him was an off duty agent that just happened to be there and in the assailant’s path. And this I don’t get. WTF ??? Why are there off-duty people wandering around in the White house? At an airport, do they let off-duty staff wander around air-side? At a bank, do they have off-duty staff wandering around on the staff-side of the security doors? I’m not looking for a rational explanation here that for some rational reason they couldn’t adhere to normal security protocols: I’m just saying it looks sloppy. ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2014, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-house-fence-jumper-what-was-supposed-to-happen/700036/32 "2014-10-02T04:30:38Z")
> [@Melbourne](#): > > And this I don’t get. WTF ??? Why are there off-duty people wandering around in the White house? > > At an airport, do they let off-duty staff wander around air-side? At a bank, do they have off-duty staff wandering around on the staff-side of the security doors? > > I’m not looking for a rational explanation here that for some rational reason they couldn’t adhere to normal security protocols: I’m just saying it looks sloppy. I don’t get it either. Even hanging out at places like gas stations after your shift is over is generally frowned upon because it distracts people from doing their jobs. I find it very surprising that SS agents can just hang around the White House as much as they like. That is very sloppy. It is a fortunate thing he was there but it shouldn’t have been necessary in the first place. It is a good thing that Julia Pierson got fired/was forced to resign. The once noble SS has become a national embarrassment. Almost anyone can do it better than her. Most people recognize that whatever side of the political spectrum you fall into, the President and the White House have to be strongly protected at all times and the SS isn’t doing a good enough job today. It is a good thing it was just a crazy man with a knife while the President was awaty. It could have been a whole group of extremists that took the whole place hostage while the President or his family was there. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2014, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-house-fence-jumper-what-was-supposed-to-happen/700036/33 "2014-10-02T04:50:32Z")
> [@Melbourne](#): > > And this I don’t get. WTF ??? Why are there off-duty people wandering around in the White house? It doesn’t sound like he’d been off-duty [very long](http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/white-house-intruder-was-tackled-by-off-duty-secret-service-agent/2014/09/30/052fb86c-48b4-11e4-b72e-d60a9229cc10_story.html): > [@](#): > > The agent who finally tackled Omar Gonzalez had been serving on the security detail for President Obama’s daughters and had just seen the family depart via helicopter minutes earlier. He happened to be walking through the house when chaos broke out and the intruder dashed through the main foyer, according to two people familiar with the incident. Of course, the way this is going, it will leak in a few days that he wasn’t an agent at all, just some guy off the street taking a shortcut to get from Lafayette Square to the Ellipse. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2014, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-house-fence-jumper-what-was-supposed-to-happen/700036/34 "2014-10-02T05:15:00Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > It is a good thing that Julia Pierson got fired/was forced to resign. The once noble SS has become a national embarrassment. Almost anyone can do it better than her. I don’t think she’s entirely to blame. That scandal with the prostitutes in 2012 shows there was already rot setting in. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2014, 11:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-house-fence-jumper-what-was-supposed-to-happen/700036/35 "2014-10-02T11:00:39Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > The once noble SS has become a national embarrassment. You know who really knew how to run an SS? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2014, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-house-fence-jumper-what-was-supposed-to-happen/700036/36 "2014-10-03T03:03:44Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > You know who really knew how to run an SS? Yah, [Dubbya.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PX3aaWlUmpc) ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2014, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-house-fence-jumper-what-was-supposed-to-happen/700036/37 "2014-10-03T03:12:57Z")
It needs to be remembered that no security is unbreakable or infallible. Whatever security is increased due to this incident will still have holes in it. Short of putting the president in a cell at the supermax in Florence, Colorado, a sufficiently determined assassin can succeed no matter what the security. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2014, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-house-fence-jumper-what-was-supposed-to-happen/700036/38 "2014-10-03T03:55:03Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > It needs to be remembered that no security is unbreakable or infallible. Whatever security is increased due to this incident will still have holes in it. Short of putting the president in a cell at the supermax in Florence, Colorado, a sufficiently determined assassin can succeed no matter what the security. Holes? A hole in the defense system would be letting someone get 50 feet past the fence, When someone is in the green room that’s called an unescorted tour of the White House. ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2014, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-house-fence-jumper-what-was-supposed-to-happen/700036/39 "2014-10-03T04:06:24Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > It needs to be remembered that no security is unbreakable or infallible. Whatever security is increased due to this incident will still have holes in it. Short of putting the president in a cell at the supermax in Florence, Colorado, a sufficiently determined assassin can succeed no matter what the security. True, but that still doesn’t excuse completely routine screw-ups that are both foreseeable and preventable according to the Secret Service’s own procedures. Keeping people away from the front door of the White House let alone getting inside is Secret Service training 101 yet they still blew it. Let’s face it, the people on guard had one job and they failed at it miserably when the time came to use all of that training. It wasn’t a failure of one person in that one particular incident. The security procedures should always be more resilient than that. It does indicate top leadership rot at the highest levels because of the overall trend. I am happy the head of the SS was fired (or resigned in news terms) over it because that is the way it should be. Regardless of how you feel about any particular president, a successful assassination attempt or even a partially successful one is one national disaster we do not need. The SS has traditionally done a great job of thwarting the never ending string of assignation attempts. The last completely successful one was Kennedy and the most recent one to cause bodily harm to a President was Reagan. However, attempts come in all the time. George HW Bush was supposed to be killed by people sent by Saddam Hussein until the SS prevented it, People tried to kill Bill Clinton several times including flying a plane into the White House. George W Bush had a grenade thrown at him at an overseas speech. It didn’t go off just by luck. Obama has also had several attempts on his life as well. These aren’t rare events. Secret Service Presidential detail is a prestigious assignment. It isn’t the time or place to say, oh well, everyone makes mistakes, try to do better the next time. You have to get it right every time or step down so that someone that will can take over the massive duties involved. The President can always be killed by really skilled assassins using the best plans and weapons available. However, that has never happened. All of the successful presidential assassinations have been carried out by lone assassins using basic weapons at fairly close range. That is what the Secret Service has to guard against the most and, if any members can’t fulfill those duties, they have to go. ---
**Author:** ![Habeed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a587f6/32.png) [@Habeed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Habeed)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2014, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-house-fence-jumper-what-was-supposed-to-happen/700036/40 "2014-10-03T04:41:28Z")
To be fair, the president and his family weren’t there. Whoever was left was guarding an empty building. Maybe all the first string agents on duty at that time were with the president. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-house-fence-jumper-what-was-supposed-to-happen/700036.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-house-fence-jumper-what-was-supposed-to-happen/700036.md?page=3)