# White House: Mission Accomplished **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 29, 2003, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-house-mission-accomplished/210183 "2003-10-29T05:28:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Lucki\_Chaarms](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9de0a6/32.png) [@Lucki\_Chaarms](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lucki_Chaarms)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2003, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-house-mission-accomplished/210183/21 "2003-10-30T01:03:08Z")
Well, the clock’s ticking down now. If we get to work we can get this incompetent, arrogant fuck out on his ass fairly shortly. But I will guaran-fucking-tee you that it won’t be long before the AM Radio squad suddenly look over at Iraq and start throwing claims of massive mismanagement at whatever poor sap we get in to office, if we’re lucky enough to slap a sufficient number of voters out of their media coma to boot this disgusting fuck out of power. When I start thinking about what this man and his administration have done to our country and our planet, the rage builds until I am physically sick. And you know what the worst part is? He and his people killed so much of my hope. Do you realize that as this pissant fuck was ramping up his war machine, vomiting his goddamned lies on everyone who would listen, the world took notice? Something happened that had never, ever happened before. More people around the world stood up and said NO! You may not do whatever the fuck you please just because you’re big, you may not start a war based on lies you don’t even care enough about to make GOOD, you may not roll over the rest of this world to continue on with your agenda. It had _never happened before_. The world stood up and said NO, and this illegitimate bitch said “I don’t listen to focus groups.” and then went right ahead. Evil won, folks. We barely slowed them down. I hate, hate, hate this man. LC ---
**Author:** ![Tars\_Tarkas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Tars\_Tarkas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tars_Tarkas)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2003, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-house-mission-accomplished/210183/22 "2003-10-30T01:09:18Z")
Why are you people complaining? The war is over! Our boys are home! Saddam is dead, just like Osama! It’s all gold!!! [sub]wait a minute…[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![Llama\_Llogophile](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@Llama\_Llogophile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Llama_Llogophile)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2003, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-house-mission-accomplished/210183/23 "2003-10-30T01:23:37Z")
I second what **Metacom** said. If the admin hadn’t wanted the banner there, it wouldn’t have been there. They agreed with that message no matter who paid for it or printed it. Image is necessarily everything to this administration due to the lack of substance. ---
**Author:** ![Danalan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/76d3ee/32.png) [@Danalan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Danalan)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2003, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-house-mission-accomplished/210183/24 "2003-10-30T01:28:16Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Mr. Moto \* > \*\*It’s stupid to backtrack now, it merely hands ammo to a lot of Democrats who, frankly, don’t have productive suggestions vis a vis national security anyway. When any one of them besides Lieberman can come up with a plan that actually goes after our country’s enemies, maybe I’ll listen to complaints about a banner. \*\* We are going after our countries enemies. George W. Bush. Dick Cheney. John Ashcroft. Rumsfeld. Colin Powell. Five or six members of the Supreme Court. George Bush. I’d go on, but it’s a long list, and I’ve got work to do if I want my country to be free again. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2003, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-house-mission-accomplished/210183/25 "2003-10-30T02:01:55Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Mr. Moto \* > I believed at the time that the banner referred to the AL’s mission. I work with a lot of current and former Navy personnel, and that’s pretty much how it was interpreted by nearly all of us. And the whole rest of the world, OTOH, read it as “We won!! We won!!” Which, as **Metacom** has pointed out, was clearly the Administration’s intention. > [@](#): > > A serviceman’s mission is never truly over, mind you, eapecially with troops still on the ground in country. The Lincoln was completing a long deployment, though, and deserved thanks for its contribution. And they _were_ thanked. By being used as props in Shrub’s victory dance. > [@](#): > > It’s stupid to backtrack now, it merely hands ammo to a lot of Democrats who, frankly, don’t have productive suggestions vis a vis national security anyway. Does it matter? We’ve got two Third World countries - one with an unstable government, the other with an unstable leader - on the verge of becoming nuclear powers, and a War on Terror that we don’t know how to win, so Bush puts all that on the back burner while he overthrows a tinpot dictator who’s got nothing to do with all that, the end result of which is to open up a new playground for the terrorists. Frankly, a President who sits in the White House all day with his thumb up his ass would be an improvement over that. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2003, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-house-mission-accomplished/210183/26 "2003-10-30T02:24:07Z")
C’mon, Bush stole the stinking election, why the hell shouldn’t he think he can get away with damn-all when he already has done so? Joe Sixpack is locked in a drooling daze on his teevee set, he’ll vote Repub because it’ll make him feel a little less like a potato. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2003, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-house-mission-accomplished/210183/27 "2003-10-30T02:49:12Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Danalan \* > **We are going after our countries enemies. George W. Bush. … George Bush.** If by this you mean to separate Bush the First from his son (rather than naming W twice on purpose to, say, emphasize he’s double the enemy everyone else is), you may be interested in [this excerpt from Bush the Elder’s memoirs](http://www.snopes.com/politics/quotes/gulfwar.asp). 😃 ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2003, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-house-mission-accomplished/210183/28 "2003-10-30T02:56:36Z")
_guys, guys_ don’t we have a good enough laundry list against the guy w/o getting into that whole election thing? you **know** as soon as you mention FL, chads, etc, you’re written off as a flaming liberal w/o a lick of sense, and anything you say can be instantly dismissed as coming from the mouth of a loon. Please, please, I beg of you, come join me in the “Liberal but not a fucking lunatic” section, we give great parties, and actually get to score points off the other side, too. ---
**Author:** ![Largo62](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/45deac/32.png) [@Largo62](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Largo62)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2003, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-house-mission-accomplished/210183/29 "2003-10-30T02:58:45Z")
It was just reported on “World News Tonight” that two more US servicemen were killed in Iraq today, bringing the total dead to _ **more** _ than were killed before the mission was “accomplished.” That’s topugher than a pretzel. Chew on _that_ and try to swallow it without choking, Mr. President! ---
**Author:** ![Largo62](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/45deac/32.png) [@Largo62](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Largo62)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2003, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-house-mission-accomplished/210183/30 "2003-10-30T03:05:55Z")
I meant, of course, more Americans have been killed since the declaration of the “end of the war” than were killed during the war. Peacetime can be a bitch. One of these days, I’ll learn to use the preview function. Bad Geezer! ---
**Author:** ![El\_Gui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/35a633/32.png) [@El\_Gui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Gui)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2003, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-house-mission-accomplished/210183/31 "2003-10-30T03:17:12Z")
Any claim that the crew members came up with banner’s line also contradicts what was stated in a May 4 [editiorial](http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&node=&contentId=A10976-2003May3) of the Washington Post: > [@](#): > > Aides say the slogan was **chosen** in part to mark a presidential turn toward domestic affairs as his [Bush’s] campaign for reelection approaches.[emphasis mine] ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2003, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-house-mission-accomplished/210183/32 "2003-10-30T14:15:24Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by wring \* > \*\*_guys, guys_ don’t we have a good enough laundry list against the guy w/o getting into that whole election thing? you **know** as soon as you mention FL, chads, etc, you’re written off as a flaming liberal w/o a lick of sense, and anything you say can be instantly dismissed as coming from the mouth of a loon. Please, please, I beg of you, come join me in the “Liberal but not a fucking lunatic” section, we give great parties, and actually get to score points off the other side, too. \*\* Fuck you, too. There’s plenty of solid evidence that Bush stole the election. I’m sure the Pubbie partisans would like to be able to characterize everyone who has issues with the way the 2000 election was conducted as loons, but it won’t wash, asshole. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2003, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-house-mission-accomplished/210183/33 "2003-10-30T14:22:27Z")
You know, first we have sixteen words in a State of the Union address. Now we have two words on a banner. Thats now eighteen words, out of thousands written and spoken by the President and the Cabinet, that are now issues for the opposition. With no evidence, mind, of an intent to mislead in these eighteen words. I gotta warn the more strident of you Bush haters, that harping on eighteen words is well into stark raving loony territory, and will just chase voters away. Remember, Republicans, in our worst election, won more than one state. The real issues, as always, go well past a speech and a banner. Just over two years ago, a group of terrorists funded and supported by certain middle eastern states and individuals conspired to kill over three thousand people on U.S. soil. What are the Democrats going to do as a party to punish those responsible and prevent future attacks. How is it better than the ASdministration response? I would like a clear and uncontradictory answer. It would go a long way toward dispelling my view of the Democrats as a party fundamentally unconcerned and ignorant of national security issues. ---
**Author:** ![Genghis\_Bob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/45deac/32.png) [@Genghis\_Bob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Genghis_Bob)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2003, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-house-mission-accomplished/210183/34 "2003-10-30T14:23:17Z")
**Evil Captor** , you just proved **Wring’s** point. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2003, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-house-mission-accomplished/210183/35 "2003-10-30T14:29:59Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Mr. Moto \* > **I gotta warn the more strident of you Bush haters, that harping on eighteen words is well into stark raving loony territory, and will just chase voters away.** This is exactly what I’m talking about. Pubbies would like to control the terms of the debate by successfully classifying valid concerns as “loony.” Being bothered by the 2000 election is loony. Being bothered by obvious Presidential lies is loony. How long before being bothered by a disastrous situation in Iraq and a failing economy is loony? It’s pretty dumb of alleged Dems to fall for this sort of thing. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2003, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-house-mission-accomplished/210183/36 "2003-10-30T15:20:38Z")
The terms of the debate are largely controlled by the concerns and beliefs of the American voter, **Evil Captor**. That’s why decent, well spoken, honorable men like McGovern and Mondale lost, and lost badly. They did so because they were largely incorrect in many of their assumptions and very out of touch with the American populace. Forget this at your peril. ---
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2003, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-house-mission-accomplished/210183/37 "2003-10-30T15:31:01Z")
**Evil Captor** , on behalf of **wring** and the liberal-but-not-a-fucking-lunatic contingent, fuck you right back for contributing to the Republican “control of the debate” you’re so damned upset over. Has it ever occured to you, dickweed, that one of the reasons for the right wing control over the public discourse (which I agree is real) is that, as a group they’re able to _stay on point_ behind a cohesive set of arguments? Even if the majority of those right wing arguments are facile and self serving, and depend on the ignorance of the audience, they’re largely successful because of asshole liberals like you who dredge up a laundry list of complaints which _however legitimate_ detract from the question at hand and reinforce those right wing slurs. Foaming at the mouth about real injustices is still foaming at the mouth. Makes it easy for the **Mr. Moto** ’s of the world to say “see, he’s a nutter.” ---
**Author:** ![London\_Calling](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@London\_Calling](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/London_Calling)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2003, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-house-mission-accomplished/210183/38 "2003-10-30T15:41:47Z")
A ‘big up’ to **Xeno** who probably won’t agree with me but I’ll extend the sentiment to include the woolly-thinking pre-war, anti-war crowd. Every fucking issue under the sun on those marching banners and not a clue as to how to present a coherent, point-by-point opposition to the war itself; _then_ was not the time to “demand” a Palestinian State or freedom for one-legged, eco-aware, Manchurian lesbians. Hopeless campaign at exactly the time the public needed a rallying focal point. IMHO. - was that a hijack ? whooops . . . ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2003, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-house-mission-accomplished/210183/39 "2003-10-30T15:52:45Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by xenophon41 \* > \*\***Has it ever occured to you, dickweed, that one of the reasons for the right wing control over the public discourse (which I agree is real) is that, as a group they’re able to _stay on point_ behind a cohesive set of arguments?** I agree it’s ONE of the reasons. But one of the OTHER major reasons is that they present a united front. They do not attack one another. Specifically, they do not call one another “loony” or anything like it, in public anyway. They do not call others’ APPROACHES to debate loony or anything like it. They well know that doing so invites the opposition to come in and drive a wedge between the two people/groups thus reducing the opposition’s effectiveness. Witness the speed with which Mr. Moto was up and waving the “loony” banner. **Even if the majority of those right wing arguments are facile and self serving, and depend on the ignorance of the audience, they’re largely successful because of asshole liberals like you who dredge up a laundry list of complaints which _however legitimate_ detract from the question at hand and reinforce those right wing slurs.** My statement was on point. People were wondering how Bush could think he would get away with an obvious lie WRT “Mission Accomplished” and I pointed out that he had gotten away with plenty of OTHER blatant stuff – why shouldn’t he get away with lying about “Mission Accomplished”? The blank-eyed drooling electorate has given him EVERY REASON to suppose he can say and do anything he likes and get away with it. \*\*Foaming at the mouth about real injustices is still foaming at the mouth. Makes it easy for the **Mr. Moto** ’s of the world to say “see, he’s a nutter.” \*\* yeah, and characterizing your fellow liberals as “foaming at the mouth” REALLY makes Mr. Moto’s job harder, doesn’t it? Especially when they haven’t been doing so. ---
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2003, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-house-mission-accomplished/210183/40 "2003-10-30T16:19:59Z")
**L\_C** : Actually, I agree with what you just said. Pre-war was the time for pointed questions about the justifications for war, for demands for evidence, and for specific counterproposals. Post-war, now is the time for pointed questions about the occupation/reconstruction strategy and for new specific counterproposals. And btw, **EC** , there are plenty of opportunities to bring up the appointment of the Pres, 2000; but the time to include a general indictment of every US voter (except, presumably, yourself) as an unthinking “Joe Sixpack” is _NEVER_. Assuming, of course, you want to actually advance a liberal perspective instead of just airing one. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-house-mission-accomplished/210183.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-house-mission-accomplished/210183.md?page=3)