# White House Wedding in the Offing? **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [May 29, 2015, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-house-wedding-in-the-offing/721089 "2015-05-29T03:00:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2015, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-house-wedding-in-the-offing/721089/21 "2015-05-29T23:12:21Z")
> [@Ike\_Witt](#): > > Is offering livestock for someones hand in marriage that much worse than offering a shiny rock? Offering livestock to a girl’s parents,and particularly to her father, for her hand in marriage is treating her as a commodity, not a person. Saying you’ve been planning to do so _since she was nine_ only adds to the insult to her. ---
**Author:** ![Claverhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/13edae/32.png) [@Claverhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Claverhouse)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2015, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-house-wedding-in-the-offing/721089/22 "2015-05-30T00:45:57Z")
But, it is an integral part of many Kenyans’ life — although declining under the influence of western cultural imperialism — many people there ( as well as in other parts of Africa and beyond ), they are not all just ‘Kenyans’, find it useful whether westerners approve or not. In the case of the Kikuyu: _The Kikuyu are the largest ethnic group or tribe in Kenya, with some 6.6 million Kikuyus, about 23% of the total population here. They come from the central part of the country, centered around Mt. Kenya. Many of my co-workers are Kikuyu. The practice of dowry or the bride price is common throughout all the tribes of Kenya. A man can be expected to pay the equivalent of approximately five years of his projected salary to the family of his fiancé in order for the marriage to be culturally legitimate._ **[Affrocco Blog](http://afrocco.blogspot.co.uk/2013/09/a-kikuyu-dowry.html)** _By VERONICA CHEROP I received this email from a concerned husband: “I have been in a come-we-stay marriage for six years. My wife and I met at a private university and dated for the duration of our studies before we started living together. We have two children. “Recently, I went to her parents to start the process of formalising our union, but what I was told has left me in shock. Her family demanded an unattainable target as dowry before they officially recognise me as their son-in-law. Their main argument was that her parents spent a lot of money to educate her in private schools and universities._ **[Digital Standard of Kenya](http://www.standardmedia.co.ke/lifestyle/article/2000090631/concerned-husband-how-much-dowry-is-enough)** \* \*The dowry celebration in Kenya is a very traditional ritual. This ceremony is about cherishing the relationships between the husband and the wife’s families, especially the bride’s parents. The gifts of food and money are offered to the bride’s parents, where the celebration takes place. My sister Dine and I were invited by our host-mother Margaret to go up country, in her home town, to attend her brother’s dowry celebration. The interesting fact here is that her brother has been married to his wife for 16 years, but in Kenya the dowry to a wife’s parents can last a lifetime. \* **[Trotting All Around Blog](http://trottingallaround.blogspot.co.uk/2012/09/the-dowry-celebration-in-kenya-is-very.html)** ( volunteer in Kenya ) This is too intimate and ingrained to dismiss as African backwardness. Besides, another fellow offered the same thing for Miss Clinton, mentioned above: \*In 2000, Kenyan man offered cows, goats for Chelsea Clinton’s hand in marriage In recent town hall meeting, Hillary Clinton says she would convey offer to daughter Godwin Kipkemoi Chepkurgor is already married, says wife wouldn’t mind \* **[CNN](http://edition.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/africa/08/08/kenya.clinton.proposal/)** Maybe it’s a rite of manhood for a Kenyan to piss off the US presidency every now and then. - Kenyan news media, with the same heartwarming and interesting stories that fascinate everyone everywhere. aka ‘_We Are Not So Different, You And I_’. From the sidebar: Senator denies having sex with Nigerian man in car Kenyatta University warns students to only masturbate in bed Naked female biker blamed for distracting motorists on City street I have worn my mtumba shirt for more than 10 years - Former Foreign Affairs minister Kenyan women not gold diggers contrary to popular belief - Survey ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2015, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-house-wedding-in-the-offing/721089/23 "2015-05-30T02:17:53Z")
> [@Ike\_Witt](#): > > Is offering livestock for someones hand in marriage that much worse than offering a shiny rock? Livestock will die, while a diamond is . . . ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2015, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-house-wedding-in-the-offing/721089/24 "2015-05-31T00:25:59Z")
> [@FairyChatMom](#): > > Maybe I’m a little dense, but it just looks like a clash of cultures, assuming it’s not something someone made up. Is CNN known for its fake news reports? > > It’s not knee-slapping hilarious, but if the lawyer really is serious, I see head-shaking chuckle potential here. I don’t see all the layers you’re seeing, but then I tend to take things at face value. > > _\_ I’m with _FairyChatMom_. > [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > 30 goats seems way low. We are talking about the daughter of a head of state, not the daughter of a village elder. > > I say 200 goats, minimum. Oh, I agree. But you have to start low, because the parents are going to bargain you up. ---
**Author:** ![handsomeharry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9c0ed/32.png) [@handsomeharry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handsomeharry)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2015, 6:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-house-wedding-in-the-offing/721089/25 "2015-05-31T06:13:39Z")
> [@Becky2844](#): > > I’m not being snarky here, but this thread offends me. Too many layers of bigotry and mysogony to be humorous. Your response is offensive. You take too much of the world’s problems onto yourself, and you want the whole of SDMB to be controlled by your better plans for humanity. ---
**Author:** ![handsomeharry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9c0ed/32.png) [@handsomeharry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handsomeharry)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2015, 6:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-house-wedding-in-the-offing/721089/26 "2015-05-31T06:15:31Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > Oh, I agree. But you have to start low, because the parents are going to bargain you up. Your response is better than the one I was going to post. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![handsomeharry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9c0ed/32.png) [@handsomeharry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handsomeharry)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2015, 6:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-house-wedding-in-the-offing/721089/27 "2015-05-31T06:17:22Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > Well then, how much _do_ you think he should have offered? Just read this one. You’re on a roll, aren’t you! Envious again, but, I’m above posting another frown smilie. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2015, 9:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-house-wedding-in-the-offing/721089/28 "2015-05-31T09:14:13Z")
To be taken seriously, the Nairobi lawyer should throw in 7 years of indentured servitude to the prospective bride’s father. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2015, 11:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-house-wedding-in-the-offing/721089/29 "2015-05-31T11:21:15Z")
> [@Arabella\_Flynn](#): > > I would be inclined to respond that I was very sorry, but I was not legally empowered to negotiate a bridal contract on Malia’s behalf, because – as is our custom here – all rights of ownership have been irreversibly transferred to Malia herself. > > I probably wouldn’t, mind. It would piss a lot of different people off for a lot of different reasons. But I would be very very tempted. I imagine that is more or less how he will reply, in more diplomatic terms. And I expect he will pass the offer along to Malia. (Perhaps with some pointed advice) In cultures with bride-prices, it is still common for the woman’s consent to be required. Many Americans practice the custom of the groom asking permission of the bride’s father. I, personally, find that offensive, but don’t find a bride-price much more offensive. They aren’t really that different. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2015, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-house-wedding-in-the-offing/721089/30 "2015-05-31T13:55:31Z")
Meh. As a Peace Corp volunteer in Cameroon, I told would-be suitors that my father required 100 cows. I was always a little worried that someone would come up with it. One older gentleman tried to bargain me down to a bag full of soap. It was a really big bag, I’ll give him that. But I passed. Marriage customs are universally weird. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2015, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-house-wedding-in-the-offing/721089/31 "2015-05-31T14:50:00Z")
> [@Becky2844](#): > > I’m not being snarky here, but this thread offends me. Too many layers of bigotry and mysogony to be humorous. The offer is kind of squicky and it would be creepy if they went through with it…but why is the thread itself offensive? **Siam Sam** ’s just discussing what happened, not endorsing it. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2015, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-house-wedding-in-the-offing/721089/32 "2015-05-31T20:05:46Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > The offer is kind of squicky and it would be creepy if they went through with it…but why is the thread itself offensive? **Siam Sam** ’s just discussing what happened, not endorsing it. I assumed her own betrothal was livestock based, but was limited to a few guinea hens and a Schistosomes calf. Amiright? ---
**Author:** ![carnut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnut/32/3531_2.png) [@carnut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnut)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2015, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-house-wedding-in-the-offing/721089/33 "2015-05-31T22:40:00Z")
Chelsea Clinton was also offered marriage by a Kenyan when she was a teen in the White House. 40 goats and 20 cows. I believe the answer he received was along the lines of “Chelsea will decide who she wants to marry when the time comes.” I hope the answer for the request for Malia is the same. We joke here about the offer of goats and cows but it really serves the same purpose that is the theory behind the engagement ring. The man is proving to a girl’s parents that he can afford to support her financially. Whether or not he actually does this after marriage is another story. ---
**Author:** ![Becky2844](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@Becky2844](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Becky2844)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2015, 7:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-house-wedding-in-the-offing/721089/34 "2015-06-01T07:39:45Z")
> [@handsomeharry](#): > > Your response is offensive. You take too much of the world’s problems onto yourself, and you want the whole of SDMB to be controlled by your better plans for humanity. That’s something for me to think about. Thank you. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2015, 10:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-house-wedding-in-the-offing/721089/35 "2015-06-01T10:07:14Z")
> [@Claverhouse](#): > > Just because it’s a different culture, it doesn’t mean their customs and values are inferior. No, you’re right. I mean, this particular custom and value \*is \*inferior, but it’s not _because_ it’s a different culture. And I say this as someone who lives in a country where [brideprices](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lobolo) are very much still a thing. Hell, [there’s an app](http://www.dw.de/lobola-app-gives-south-african-bride-price/a-18284800) for that shit (which is humourous but telling). Although I have to say, only 50 cows plus assorted other smaller kine is [lowballing](http://www.news24.com/Archives/City-Press/Khulubuse-Zuma-pays-lobola-of-100-cattle-for-Swazi-princess-20150429) it. Malia should be worth more than a princess from fucking Swaziland… ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2015, 10:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-house-wedding-in-the-offing/721089/36 "2015-06-01T10:13:20Z")
> [@carnut](#): > > We joke here about the offer of goats and cows but it really serves the same purpose that is the theory behind the engagement ring. The man is proving to a girl’s parents that he can afford to support her financially. One key difference is that brideprices are paid to the bride’s father, engagement rings are the property of the bride. Which one respects the woman’s agency, again? ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2015, 11:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-house-wedding-in-the-offing/721089/37 "2015-06-01T11:40:05Z")
> [@Happy\_Scrappy\_Hero\_Pup](#): > > I’m pretty sure that’s Taylor Swift. no its becky2844 ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2015, 11:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-house-wedding-in-the-offing/721089/38 "2015-06-01T11:52:37Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > One key difference is that brideprices are paid to the bride’s father, engagement rings are the property of the bride. Which one respects the woman’s agency, again? That’s why I brought up the common US custom of “asking the father for her hand”. > [@puzzlegal](#): > > … > In cultures with bride-prices, it is still common for the woman’s consent to be required. Many Americans practice the custom of the groom asking permission of the bride’s father. I, personally, find that offensive, but don’t find a bride-price much more offensive. They aren’t really that different. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2015, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-house-wedding-in-the-offing/721089/39 "2015-06-01T14:33:58Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > That’s why I brought up the common US custom > of “asking the father for her hand”. I find it offensive, too, but presumably a man will do it when he knows his lady likes that sort of thing. Again, it’s about the agency of a woman, and I don’t really have a problem with it if the lady has a great relationship with her dad and prefers it this way. I mean, any man who asked my dad for my permission is a no-go for me, but I expect my fiancé would know that. But this is a straight up bride price, and I don’t care about the culture, it’s an inferior practice. It’s buying a bride and I can’t stomach it and it makes me sick. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2015, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-house-wedding-in-the-offing/721089/40 "2015-06-01T15:36:26Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > That’s why I brought up the common US custom > of “asking the father for her hand”. That’s also offensive and just as dated as a cattle brideprice, IMO. At least, if any potential suitor of one of my daughters did that, I’d straight-up laugh at him. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-house-wedding-in-the-offing/721089.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-house-wedding-in-the-offing/721089.md?page=3)