# White House Wedding in the Offing? **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [May 29, 2015, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-house-wedding-in-the-offing/721089 "2015-05-29T03:00:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2015, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-house-wedding-in-the-offing/721089/41 "2015-06-01T16:35:36Z")
It’s only selling brides when it is selling brides. These exchanges are separate from the question of if it is or is not a forced marriage. And if you are trying to fight forced marriage, it’s going to be tough if you also lump in marriage traditions that people cherish. Where I lived in Cameroon, the exchange-of-stuff ceremony was THE main wedding event. It’s what young girls daydream about and old women think wistfully of. People reacted with pity when I said we didn’t do it. It’s considered a fundamental part of what marriage is. You can stop forced marriage, but the traditions will persist, though they will likely become more and more symbolic. This offer, even if it was serious, might even be as symbolic as the father “giving away” the bride in western ceremonies. 20 cows isn’t a lot for a successful lawyer and is nothing for a president, so unless he is wildly misinformed about the US economy, he probably wasn’t actually offering to straight up buy her. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2015, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-house-wedding-in-the-offing/721089/42 "2015-06-01T16:59:16Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > It’s only selling brides when it is selling brides. These exchanges are separate from the question of if it is or is not a forced marriage. And if you are trying to fight forced marriage, it’s going to be tough if you also lump in marriage traditions that people cherish… This. I have no idea whether they actually buy brides in Kenya, but I know that lots of cultures exchange stuff of value in conjunction with a wedding, and lots include a “bride price” without it being a forced marriage or anyone thinking the woman was outright purchased. In Jewish law, the man pays a bride price, which is held in escrow and given to the woman in the event he divorces her. Read the standard kettubah if you don’t believe me. But for thousands of years, the woman had to agree to be married, despite the payment. (And technically, if the girl is under the age of consent, it’s her father who can agree to the marriage on her behalf. But I don’t think Jews have practiced that for the last two or three thousand years.) So I’m not going to get upset about this practice unless and until I have some evidence that the bride is actually sold, and it’s not just a ritual that goes along with the wedding after the bride is on board – sort of like when/if you ask the father, you really ought to know the bride is on board with the idea in the US, as well. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2015, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-house-wedding-in-the-offing/721089/43 "2015-06-01T20:30:27Z")
When we got engaged, we registered at Macy’s and Target, not Hormel. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2015, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-house-wedding-in-the-offing/721089/44 "2015-06-01T20:31:37Z")
It’s true that it’s often just the tradition, but I don’t believe in any traditions for the sake of tradition. It’s also true that the bride’s consent is required, but that means precisely dick in too many situations. Bride’s consent is obtained with a whole lot of pressure and even some force in times. I am not trying to fight forced marriage, though. I’m not trying to fight anything. Just expressing my distaste for it. I have also been offered a bride price for myself. Eeyuck. Didn’t like it one bit. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2015, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-house-wedding-in-the-offing/721089/45 "2015-06-01T20:43:09Z")
OK, I gotta ask - how much? Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2015, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-house-wedding-in-the-offing/721089/46 "2015-06-02T02:19:31Z")
Thailand has the practice of bride price. It’s sort of like a dowry in reverse. A main difference though is that as it is practiced by Thais, _ideally_ it is just for show, something to impress the neighbors with, and the groom’s in-laws end up giving it back to the married couple in some form – sometimes the cash itself is handed back, sometimes it comes in the form of a new house to get the couple started. But however it comes back, it’s understood beforehand that it will be returned. That is _ideally_ how it works but not always. The practice of dirt-poor farmers milking a clueless prospective farang (Western) son-in-law for all they can and then keeping it has become endemic, particularly in the Northeast, the poorest part of the country. How much bride price was I asked to pay for my Thai wife? Not one single penny. (Or baht.) Hell, my wife’s family was wealthier than I was, and the middle classes on up just don’t seem that interested in the tradition these days overall. ---
**Author:** ![carnut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnut/32/3531_2.png) [@carnut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnut)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2015, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-house-wedding-in-the-offing/721089/47 "2015-06-02T02:47:36Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > One key difference is that brideprices are paid to the bride’s father, engagement rings are the property of the bride. Which one respects the woman’s agency, again? I wasn’t aware I was discussing the woman’s agency. The statement was a reflection on how many cultures developed a “bride price” system, not the details of the system. ---
**Author:** ![Marion\_Wormer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d07c76/32.png) [@Marion\_Wormer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marion_Wormer)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2015, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-house-wedding-in-the-offing/721089/48 "2015-06-02T22:56:40Z")
> [@Sahirrnee](#): > > Sometimes 8 cows are enough > > [http://www.ultimatehusband.com/8cow\_wife.htm](http://www.ultimatehusband.com/8cow_wife.htm) The [ultimatehusband.com](http://ultimatehusband.com) website impressed me as weird as offering cows and goats. And if anyone here wants to marry me, I prefer horses, akitas, and beehives. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2015, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-house-wedding-in-the-offing/721089/49 "2015-06-03T12:27:55Z")
> [@carnut](#): > > I wasn’t aware I was discussing the woman’s agency. The statement was a reflection on how many cultures developed a “bride price” system, not the details of the system. You _were_ bringing up the engagement ring. I was pointing out that the bride gets the engagement ring, _not_ her father - this is\* very much\* a question of her agency. You _were_ discussing it - by not mentioning it at all. Engagement rings aren’t bride prices. ---
**Author:** ![carnut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnut/32/3531_2.png) [@carnut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnut)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2015, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-house-wedding-in-the-offing/721089/50 "2015-06-03T18:42:04Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > You _were_ bringing up the engagement ring. I was pointing out that the bride gets the engagement ring, _not_ her father - this is\* very much\* a question of her agency. You _were_ discussing it - by not mentioning it at all. Engagement rings aren’t bride prices. But both engagement rings and livestock evolved as a way for a man to prove he could support a wife. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Joker\_and\_the\_Thief](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e79b87/32.png) [@The\_Joker\_and\_the\_Thief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Joker_and_the_Thief)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2015, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-house-wedding-in-the-offing/721089/51 "2015-06-03T19:57:10Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > No, you’re right. I mean, this particular custom and value \*is \*inferior, but it’s not _because_ it’s a different culture. How do you determine if one value is inferior to another? ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2015, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-house-wedding-in-the-offing/721089/52 "2015-06-03T22:30:18Z")
> [@carnut](#): > > But both engagement rings and livestock evolved as a way for a man to prove he could support a wife. Also, it’s only very recently that men wore wedding rings as well. It basically marked ownership. Almost all wedding customs are basically misogynist, because until very recently in a small part of the world, basically every social custom relating to gender in any was was misogynist. ---
**Author:** ![romansperson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/romansperson/32/17100_2.png) [@romansperson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/romansperson)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2015, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-house-wedding-in-the-offing/721089/53 "2015-06-03T23:25:59Z")
> [@carnut](#): > > But both engagement rings and livestock evolved as a way for a man to prove he could support a wife. This thread is really the first time I’ve heard this. I was raised to believe the engagement ring was offered as a promise to wed at some point in the future - kind of like earnest money on a house. ---
**Author:** ![carnut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnut/32/3531_2.png) [@carnut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnut)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2015, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-house-wedding-in-the-offing/721089/54 "2015-06-05T04:21:10Z")
> [@romansperson](#): > > This thread is really the first time I’ve heard this. I was raised to believe the engagement ring was offered as a promise to wed at some point in the future - kind of like earnest money on a house. I could be wrong, but if so, I blame the anthropologist who guest-spoke in my high school honors course. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2015, 10:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-house-wedding-in-the-offing/721089/55 "2015-06-05T10:18:06Z")
Earnest money for marriage sounds very similar to “evidence he can support her” to me. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2015, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-house-wedding-in-the-offing/721089/56 "2015-06-05T13:44:39Z")
> [@The\_Joker\_and\_the\_Thief](#): > > How do you determine if one value is inferior to another? An elaborate calculus of moral worth and epistemological query… or, I ask the question: “Do I like this?” and go with that. Values that agree with mine are superior, values that clash with mine are inferior. I am the Moral Measuring Rod of God. Well, I would be if I believed in a God. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2015, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-house-wedding-in-the-offing/721089/57 "2015-06-05T13:45:43Z")
> [@carnut](#): > > But both engagement rings and livestock evolved as a way for a man to prove he could support a wife. You’re still not getting the essential difference between the two… ---
**Author:** ![carnut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnut/32/3531_2.png) [@carnut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnut)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2015, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-house-wedding-in-the-offing/721089/58 "2015-06-05T13:58:07Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > You’re still not getting the essential difference between the two… No, I do get the essential difference but that difference was not the point I was discussing. ---
**Author:** ![Gothic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/839c29/32.png) [@Gothic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gothic)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2015, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-house-wedding-in-the-offing/721089/59 "2015-06-05T16:49:08Z")
“I got interested in her in 2008,” he said. “As a matter of fact, I haven’t dated anyone since and promise to be faithful to her.” That’s one way to make the no fly list. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2015, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-house-wedding-in-the-offing/721089/60 "2015-06-05T17:12:38Z")
> [@Becky2844](#): > > I’m not being snarky here, but this thread offends me. Too many layers of bigotry and mysogony to be humorous. Righteous indignation is always better with correct spelling. > [@Anaamika](#): > > It is pretty gross. Malia is a lovely young woman who will probably \*\*be able to buy her own husband \*\*one day. Women are not commodities. **We are not to be bought** …[emphasis added] Oooookay then. > [@Marion\_Wormer](#): > > …And if anyone here wants to marry me, I prefer horses, akitas, and beehives. Oh, a juggler, eh? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-house-wedding-in-the-offing/721089.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-house-wedding-in-the-offing/721089.md?page=4)