# White liberals dumb themselves down when they speak to black people, a new study contends **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 4, 2018, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-liberals-dumb-themselves-down-when-they-speak-to-black-people-a-new-study-contends/825553 "2018-12-04T16:25:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2018, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-liberals-dumb-themselves-down-when-they-speak-to-black-people-a-new-study-contends/825553/1 "2018-12-04T16:25:30Z")
> **[White liberals dumb themselves down when they speak to black people, a new...](https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2018/11/30/white-liberals-dumb-themselves-down-when-they-speak-black-people-new-study-contends/?fbclid=IwAR05CsiY_YLhZtPV0gBzQY01bXgVKiq1hfxIXdrtJTO8oSFV63uU9lVxuEc&noredirect=on&utm_term=.54b025a06356)** > > Those most well intentioned toward minorities may be drawing most heavily on stereotypes in relating to them, finds a paper forthcoming in the Journal of Personality and Social Psychology. There was a study conducted which found that white liberals “downshift” their presented competency when interacting with people they perceive as black. Conservatives did no such thing, and interacted with perceived blacks the same as they acted with perceived whites. There was also an evaluation of the speeches of liberal and conservative politicians. They found that liberals dropped references to “agency” and “power” when speaking to audiences perceived as black. Conservatives did no such thing. The authors say this is because conservatives don’t want to interact with outgroups. This could be true. Conservatives could also feel that black people don’t want to hear what conservatives have to say because conservatives make assumptions about the political preferences of black people. I’m more interested in the perceptions liberals have of black people. I believe the study has demonstrated that liberals treat people differently solely because of their race, and that this informs their preferred political policies. They believe they must be the “white knight” for black people because they are viewed as less competent. They also believe that “agency” is not worth discussing in front of black people. For me this strengthens personal anecdotal evidence of the complexities of race relations. Perhaps liberals will view the results of the study differently. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2018, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-liberals-dumb-themselves-down-when-they-speak-to-black-people-a-new-study-contends/825553/2 "2018-12-04T16:29:00Z")
Sounds like an example of benevolent racism. Believing that Group X is disadvantaged doesn’t necessarily mean a diminished view of them, but the two could easily go hand in hand - if you think Group X needs extra help and a boost, you may see them as needing help because of being inferior. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2018, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-liberals-dumb-themselves-down-when-they-speak-to-black-people-a-new-study-contends/825553/3 "2018-12-04T16:30:42Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Sounds like an example of benevolent racism. Believing that Group X is disadvantaged doesn’t necessarily mean a diminished view of them, but the two could easily go hand in hand - if you think Group X needs extra help and a boost, you may see them as needing help because of being inferior. I believe it demonstrates that liberals view blacks as less competent. Whether they want to help them or not, that’s how they feel in the current situation. I believe this is why liberals think they need special policies to boost black people. Agency is disregarded to potentially disastrous consequences. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2018, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-liberals-dumb-themselves-down-when-they-speak-to-black-people-a-new-study-contends/825553/4 "2018-12-04T16:41:45Z")
This isn’t really anything new. You’ll find it referred to as “code shifting”. I haven’t given it a whole lot of thought but I’m not sure it’s necessarily wrong to speak to different groups of people differently. Also, who judged this? That is, who decided that they were speaking ‘dumb’ some people and not others? Could it be looked at as them speaking in a way that’s more likely to engage their audience? [This](https://twitter.com/oga_doctorblue/status/1032679636113784833?s=12), IIRC, is where I first heard the term. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2018, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-liberals-dumb-themselves-down-when-they-speak-to-black-people-a-new-study-contends/825553/5 "2018-12-04T16:45:16Z")
> [@Joey\_P](#): > > This isn’t really anything new. You’ll find it referred to as “code shifting”. I haven’t given it a whole lot of thought but I’m not sure it’s necessarily wrong to speak to different groups of people differently. > Also, who judged this? That is, who decided that they were speaking ‘dumb’ some people and not others? Could it be looked at as them speaking in a way that’s more likely to engage their audience? > [This](https://twitter.com/oga_doctorblue/status/1032679636113784833?s=12), IIRC, is where I first heard the term. I thought code switching was when black people talk to black people differently than they talk to whites. They change their speech to whites because they believe it will benefit them. I don’t view changing speech patterns with different audiences as “wrong” either. I believe it does inform poor political policies to believe black people are less capable. ---
**Author:** ![EscAlaMike](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/escalamike/32/4177_2.png) [@EscAlaMike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EscAlaMike)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2018, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-liberals-dumb-themselves-down-when-they-speak-to-black-people-a-new-study-contends/825553/6 "2018-12-04T16:46:06Z")
[Here’s a link to the actual study from Yale](http://insights.som.yale.edu/insights/white-liberals-present-themselves-as-less-competent-in-interactions-with-african-americans) The authors of the study seem to presume that white liberals are “less biased” and more “well-intentioned”. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2018, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-liberals-dumb-themselves-down-when-they-speak-to-black-people-a-new-study-contends/825553/7 "2018-12-04T16:49:13Z")
> [@EscAlaMike](#): > > [Here’s a link to the actual study from Yale](http://insights.som.yale.edu/insights/white-liberals-present-themselves-as-less-competent-in-interactions-with-african-americans) > > The authors of the study seem to presume that white liberals are “less biased” and more “well-intentioned”. Do they offer any support in favor of the “well-intentioned” part? Seems like a projection of the authors own political preferences. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2018, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-liberals-dumb-themselves-down-when-they-speak-to-black-people-a-new-study-contends/825553/8 "2018-12-04T16:49:28Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > I thought code switching was when black people talk to black people differently than they talk to whites. What difference would it make? Black people talking to black people differently than white people could be called the same thing as white people talking to white people differently than black people. Substitute any groups in there that you want. Also, code shifting is talking to two different groups of people differently. Whether both groups speak the same language but use different vernacular or the two groups speak two totally different languages. So, in any case, it’s still code shifting. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2018, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-liberals-dumb-themselves-down-when-they-speak-to-black-people-a-new-study-contends/825553/9 "2018-12-04T16:51:04Z")
> [@Joey\_P](#): > > What difference would it make? Black people talking to black people differently than white people could be called the same thing as white people talking to white people differently than black people. Substitute any groups in there that you want. > > Also, code shifting is talking to two different groups of people differently. Whether both groups speak the same language but use different vernacular or the two groups speak two totally different languages. > So, in any case, it’s still code shifting. Fair enough, I’ve just never heard it used in that context. Though I must say that code switching to get a job is different from doing it because you believe the audience is at a lower competency. This ignores the political consequences as well. ---
**Author:** ![UnwittingAmericans](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/d9b06d/32.png) [@UnwittingAmericans](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UnwittingAmericans)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2018, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-liberals-dumb-themselves-down-when-they-speak-to-black-people-a-new-study-contends/825553/10 "2018-12-04T16:53:09Z")
Is that why Comey said “Lordy, I hope there are tapes” to the Senate Intelligence Committee? 'Cause he thinks Kamala Harris is black? ---
**Author:** ![Ashtura](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ashtura/32/2963_2.png) [@Ashtura](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ashtura)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2018, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-liberals-dumb-themselves-down-when-they-speak-to-black-people-a-new-study-contends/825553/11 "2018-12-04T16:56:57Z")
Yeah, so? Black people talk to white people differently than they do to black people, probably to a much greater degree. I would consider this a mild form of code-switching. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2018, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-liberals-dumb-themselves-down-when-they-speak-to-black-people-a-new-study-contends/825553/12 "2018-12-04T16:59:56Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > There was a study conducted which found that white liberals “downshift” their presented competency when interacting with people they perceive as black. Conservatives did no such thing, and interacted with perceived blacks the same as they acted with perceived whites. I assume the point here is supposed to be that liberals are evil bigots. But I wonder about the conclusion, since I wouldn’t “downshift” if conversing, say, with Barack or Michelle Obama, or Neil Degrasse Tyson. But let me offer an alternative hypothesis. Perhaps the real issue is that many people labeled as “liberals” are educated academics and professionals with a wide gamut of competency who are accustomed to adapting their vocabulary to different audiences. Whereas perhaps a significant number of conservatives are already cognitively in first gear, being accustomed to the vocabulary of Fox News. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2018, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-liberals-dumb-themselves-down-when-they-speak-to-black-people-a-new-study-contends/825553/13 "2018-12-04T17:02:19Z")
> [@UnwittingAmericans](#): > > Is that why Comey said “Lordy, I hope there are tapes” to the Senate Intelligence Committee? 'Cause he thinks Kamala Harris is black? I think he is a conservative, no? Must just be how he talks. > [@Ashtura](#): > > Yeah, so? Black people talk to white people differently than they do to black people, probably to a much greater degree. I would consider this a mild form of code-switching. For the black example, the code being switched is from informal to formal because you think the audience expects formal. For the white liberal example, the code switch is from full competency to lower competency because you think the audience… what? Can’t understand fully competent address? Expects simpler words? Fill in the blank please. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2018, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-liberals-dumb-themselves-down-when-they-speak-to-black-people-a-new-study-contends/825553/14 "2018-12-04T17:03:01Z")
I liked this paragraph particularly - > [@](#): > > The data doesn’t point to conclusions about whether the competence downshift is effective in smoothing fraught interactions. As the paper observes, the behavioral difference is subtle, and Dupree said it’s “possible that racial minorities don’t necessarily pick up on the shift.” The poor dears can’t even tell when they are being talked down to. And of course - > [@](#): > > The findings could provide a new arrow in the quiver of those who decry identity politics practiced by liberals, and yet the paper hardly applauds conservatives for their approach, reasoning that they are simply “less motivated to affiliate with racial minorities.” Treating someone as equal means you don’t want to affiliate with them. 🙂 Dealing with Those People is fraught with difficulty. Treat them as inferior and you are being racist. Treat them as equals and it means you don’t like them. What to do, what to do… Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2018, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-liberals-dumb-themselves-down-when-they-speak-to-black-people-a-new-study-contends/825553/15 "2018-12-04T17:03:09Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > Fair enough, I’ve just never heard it used in that context. > > Though I must say that code switching to get a job is different from doing it because you believe the audience is at a lower competency. This ignores the political consequences as well. Regarding the Yale link, I see what they did was [objectively] count how many times certain words were used and then [subjectively] decided that it happens because white liberals think black audiences are dumb. Maybe it’s true, maybe it’s not. I’m sure [well, I’d hope] the paper goes into much more detail. On the face of it, to me, it seems more like tailoring what you’re saying to the audience in front of you. I’d be curious about black politicians (from both sides) speaking to those same groups. I’d also be curious if you took the same speech, spoken the same way as delivered to white liberals and presented it to black liberals, how’d they react. That is, would they feel energized to get up and vote or would it sound cold and heartless (or over their heads since that’s what the study was about)? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2018, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-liberals-dumb-themselves-down-when-they-speak-to-black-people-a-new-study-contends/825553/16 "2018-12-04T17:04:49Z")
I see no evidence of “dumbing down” or “presuming less competence” in the linked article, despite the writers’ and researchers’ apparent assumptions. And I’ll object to the completely unsurprising well poisoning by the OP in (once again) casting liberals as malevolent racists. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2018, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-liberals-dumb-themselves-down-when-they-speak-to-black-people-a-new-study-contends/825553/17 "2018-12-04T17:06:09Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > I assume the point here is supposed to be that liberals are evil bigots. But I wonder about the conclusion, since I wouldn’t “downshift” if conversing, say, with Barack or Michelle Obama, or Neil Degrasse Tyson. But let me offer an alternative hypothesis. Perhaps the real issue is that many people labeled as “liberals” are educated academics and professionals with a wide gamut of competency who are accustomed to adapting their vocabulary to different audiences. Whereas perhaps a significant number of conservatives are already cognitively in first gear, being accustomed to the vocabulary of Fox News. I would still say there is a bigger problem if the academic believes black people should engage in a lower level conversation. It informs his poor political policies because he may have some leverage in his capacity as an expert of whatever field. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2018, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-liberals-dumb-themselves-down-when-they-speak-to-black-people-a-new-study-contends/825553/18 "2018-12-04T17:09:05Z")
> [@Joey\_P](#): > > Regarding the Yale link, I see what they did was [objectively] count how many times certain words were used and then [subjectively] decided that it happens because white liberals think black audiences are dumb. > Maybe it’s true, maybe it’s not. I’m sure [well, I’d hope] the paper goes into much more detail. On the face of it, to me, it seems more like tailoring what you’re saying to the audience in front of you. > > I’d be curious about black politicians (from both sides) speaking to those same groups. > > I’d also be curious if you took the same speech, spoken the same way as delivered to white liberals and presented it to black liberals, how’d they react. That is, would they feel energized to get up and vote or would it sound cold and heartless (or over their heads since that’s what the study was about)? The question is why liberals believe blacks deserve speech tailored for a lower level discourse and if it informs their political positions ---
**Author:** ![control-z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/eada6e/32.png) [@control-z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/control-z)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2018, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-liberals-dumb-themselves-down-when-they-speak-to-black-people-a-new-study-contends/825553/19 "2018-12-04T17:11:08Z")
I have always felt that many well-off white liberals behave like benevolent racists towards black folks, often speaking for them and talking about them rather than to them. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2018, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-liberals-dumb-themselves-down-when-they-speak-to-black-people-a-new-study-contends/825553/20 "2018-12-04T17:12:22Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I see no evidence of “dumbing down” or “presuming less competence” in the linked article, despite the writers’ and researchers’ apparent assumptions. And I’ll object to the completely unsurprising well poisoning by the OP in (once again) casting liberals as malevolent racists. I’m trying to understand why liberals would use lower level vocabulary when addressing black people. Do you have another reason they could be doing this. I will not that have not poisoned any well. The topic is controversial, so the thinned-skin may think that. I have also not assigned malevolence to liberals. On the contrary I characterized them as “white knights”. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-liberals-dumb-themselves-down-when-they-speak-to-black-people-a-new-study-contends/825553.md?page=2)