# White Nationalism: Continued debate from BBQ **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 19, 2002, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-nationalism-continued-debate-from-bbq/133011 "2002-10-19T20:58:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![bdgr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a87d85/32.png) [@bdgr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bdgr)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2002, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-nationalism-continued-debate-from-bbq/133011/261 "2002-10-23T00:54:01Z")
Wheres Collounsbury when you need him… ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2002, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-nationalism-continued-debate-from-bbq/133011/262 "2002-10-23T00:55:07Z")
So you want to kill my family. Cute. Here’s a suggestion… stop giving us money. Really. We were doing just fine before you started forking over those (rather negligable, BTW, compaped to the GNPs of both the US and Israel) sums, back in the 70’s, and we’ll do just fine after you stop; besdes, then we won’t have to buy often inferior American products - after all, I’m sue you know that all the money given to us is funnelled directly to the US arms industry; in many cases it’s the only thing keeping it alive. And nobody else gives us anything , anyway. However, if you stop giving to us, you’re going to have to stop giving to Egypt as well - Egypt being the second lagest recepient of US ad, receiving only slightly less than we do. After all, they’re parasites too, right? And you’ll have to pull you’re troops out of that parasite Saudi Arabia too - let them fend for themselves! Of course, if you do all that, the Middle East will immediately descend into chaos, setting off a wave of world terrorism, cutting off the oil supply and most likely entangling the U.S. in a horrendously expensive war - with Israel fighting at your side. But that’s the price you have to pay to save a few bucks. You know, why don’t you go home and leave the international geopolitics to the experts. And go choke on your own bile. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2002, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-nationalism-continued-debate-from-bbq/133011/263 "2002-10-23T01:06:34Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Sionnach \* > \*\*Oy vey! > > [It looks like the ‘Chosen’ need more money!](http://www.haaretzdaily.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=221671&contrassID=2&subContrassID=1&sbSubContrassID=0) > > LoL! Some proud, ruthless warrior nation! More like a country full of narcissistic welfare brats! Your country would be _nothing_ without the US propping you up. _Nothing_. \*\* Timtzetzi li, ya pustema. We didn’t need you in 1948; we didn’t need you in 1967; the only reason we needed you in 1973 is because the Russkies wee giving a shitload more to our enemies. We don’t need you now - the money you’re giving us is the only thing keeing the _Palestinians_ alive, not us. If you sopped paying us we wouldn’t have to listen to you any more - w’d just kick all the Palestinians out and nuke the first country that looks at us funny. Don’t you get it - i’s not welfare; you’re getting something in return: our obedience. You’re paying us so we don’t make your “pals” in Riyadh nervous. Believe me, we’re the ones getting the shorter end of the stick. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2002, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-nationalism-continued-debate-from-bbq/133011/264 "2002-10-23T01:13:48Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Sionnach \* > \*\*Oy vey! > > [It looks like the ‘Chosen’ need more money!](http://www.haaretzdaily.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=221671&contrassID=2&subContrassID=1&sbSubContrassID=0) > > LoL! Some proud, ruthless warrior nation! More like a country full of narcissistic welfare brats! Your country would be _nothing_ without the US propping you up. _Nothing_. \*\* Timtzetzi li, ya pustema. We didn’t need you in 1948; we didn’t need you in 1967; the only reason we needed you in 1973 is because the Russkies wee giving a shitload more to our enemies. We don’t need you now - the money you’re giving us is the only thing keeing the _Palestinians_ alive, not us. If you sopped paying us we wouldn’t have to listen to you any more - w’d just kick all the Palestinians out and nuke the first country that looks at us funny. Don’t you get it - i’s not welfare; you’re getting something in return: our obedience. You’re paying us so we don’t make your “pals” in Riyadh nervous. Believe me, we’re the ones getting the shorter end of the stick. ---
**Author:** ![Sionnach](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/76d3ee/32.png) [@Sionnach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sionnach)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2002, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-nationalism-continued-debate-from-bbq/133011/265 "2002-10-23T01:14:40Z")
> [@](#): > > So you want to kill my family. Cute. I wouldn’t mourn any of your tribe. > [@](#): > > Here’s a suggestion… stop giving us money. Really. That would be an excellent idea. Then, boot AIPAC and the ADL out and ship them to Israel. You’re catching on. > [@](#): > > We were doing just fine before you started forking over those (rather negligable, BTW, compaped to the GNPs of both the US and Israel) sums, back in the 70’s, and we’ll do just fine after you stop In the case that you apparently don’t need it, your country would be worse than a parasitic mooch. I think your tribe should stick with the “oy vey! us poor little jews need your money or we’ll die and you’re an anti-semite hitler if you dont give to us” story. [quote] However, if you stop giving to us, you’re going to have to stop giving to Egypt as well - Egypt being the second lagest recepient of US ad, receiving only slightly less than we do. After all, they’re parasites too, right? [quote] Egypt is only getting aid because of a stupid Camp David agreement because of Israel’s ridiculous wars. I think it’s Israel that should have paid Egypt after that idiotic Lavon affair stunt. > [@](#): > > And you’ll have to pull you’re troops out of that parasite Saudi Arabia too - let them fend for themselves! US definately should do this, and then position her troops along the Mexican border to stop the illegal scum from running in. > [@](#): > > Of course, if you do all that, the Middle East will immediately descend into chaos, setting off a wave of world terrorism, cutting off the oil supply and most likely entangling the U.S. in a horrendously expensive war - with Israel fighting at your side. But that’s the price you have to pay to save a few bucks. The situation now is leading to war with your people egging it on. Israel has done a fine job of playing the US off against the Arabs. Screw your tribal wars. > [@](#): > > You know, why don’t you go home and leave the international geopolitics to the experts. > > And go choke on your own bile. Shouldn’t you be squatting in some “settlement” putting down the pesky natives? I heard some Palestinian terrorist want to go harvest some olives from his own orchard! Quick, grab yer guns and go get him! ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2002, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-nationalism-continued-debate-from-bbq/133011/266 "2002-10-23T01:16:30Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by bdgr \* > \*\*Wheres Collounsbury when you need him… \*\* I’m doing an important deal. Rather more important than some semi-literate malcontent trailer park trash. However, some factual issues: (a) Stirrups are a **Central Asian** not Arab invention, to the best of my knowledge. (b) In re Rushton, my dear Izzy might wish to consider this is fellow caught fabricating data: he claimed data from WHO indicating penis size difference (wonderful locker room science) based on condom size distribution btw “Asians”, “Blacks” and “Whites” - however the claimed document **did not exist**. Pure fabrication. So, you decide what to trust. We can return to the illiteracy of “average” differences between ad hoc categories at another date. © Arab civilization - as discussed earlier in this thread is an idiot illiterate category. Islamic civ. at its height(s) was also **multi-cultural** and multi-racial. Only in decline did it close itself off. Izzy might be enlightened on these issues by reading Bernard Lewis et al. Of course so would Joe Cool, but that would require a rather larger excercise in optimisim. Alessan, bro., chill: BTW I may pass through the beled soon, any advice on Tel Aviv restos? ---
**Author:** ![Jojo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ecd19e/32.png) [@Jojo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jojo)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2002, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-nationalism-continued-debate-from-bbq/133011/267 "2002-10-23T01:16:56Z")
um, has sion now overstepped the “don’t be a jerk” rule? Why do you hate all Jews so much, sion? Please don’t give me the ZOG conspiracy theory bullshit. Even if ZOG exists, that wouldn’t explain why you hate Jews generally. I’m not Jewish but I have known many Jews, some I liked some I didn’t, same as any other group of people. Not all Jews are involved in the ZOG conspiracy, you know. So how can you lump them all together like that? Most Jews just get on with their lives same as everyone else, they aren’t involved in government or finance or the media or whatever, they just work in offices or ordinary businesses. You are right that America’s unquestioning support for Israel whatever they do does raise a few eyebrows in other countries (such as the UK) but you seem to hate all Jews equally whether Israeli or not, so what gives? Oh and far as I’m aware, the size of the frontal lobe of the brain is irrelevant. Personality change can be caused by damage to (or the removal of) the lobe but a normal healthy lobe does not indicate a proclivity towards violence no matter how big or small it is. The medical term is FLD - Frontal Lobe Dysfunction. It’s caused by head injuries etc. Apparently Timothy McVeigh suffered 3 mild head injuries in his youth. Search google, you’ll find all this out for yourself. Or is google also controlled by the secret Jewish conspiracy as well? ps I just wondered, do you like cats? ---
**Author:** ![David\_B](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/51bf81/32.png) [@David\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_B)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2002, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-nationalism-continued-debate-from-bbq/133011/268 "2002-10-23T01:24:07Z")
[Moderator Hat: ON] Jojo asked: > [@](#): > > um, has sion now overstepped the “don’t be a jerk” rule? Sionnach has not broken any of the rules of the SDMB or Great Debates that I am aware of. From now on, when you have questions about whether a particular user has violated our rules, please address them to the moderators/administrators in private e-mail, not in the thread in question. * * * David B, SDMB Great Debates Moderator [Moderator Hat: OFF] ---
**Author:** ![Sionnach](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/76d3ee/32.png) [@Sionnach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sionnach)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2002, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-nationalism-continued-debate-from-bbq/133011/269 "2002-10-23T01:35:05Z")
> [@](#): > > um, has sion now overstepped the “don’t be a jerk” rule? This board is full of people being jerks all the time. It’s ok to say “semi-literate trailor trash”, but not OK to “dis” a liberal. > [@](#): > > Why do you hate all Jews so much, sion? Please don’t give me the ZOG conspiracy theory bullshit. Even if ZOG exists, that wouldn’t explain why you hate Jews generally. If I tried to explain this to you, you’d call it “ZOG conspiracy”. Let’s just say that I don’t like the politics held by 90% of their tribe. > [@](#): > > I’m not Jewish but I have known many Jews, some I liked some I didn’t, same as any other group of people. Not all Jews are involved in the ZOG conspiracy, you know. So how can you lump them all together like that? You think that I think that all Jews are willingly taking part in some conspiracy? That’s not what I think at all. I think that most Jews have a hive-like mentality that makes them support their tribal interests. Their interests conflict with mine. > [@](#): > > You are right that America’s unquestioning support for Israel whatever they do does raise a few eyebrows in other countries (such as the UK) but you seem to hate all Jews equally whether Israeli or not, so what gives? I do not hate all Jews equally. The American and Canadian Zionists are hated the most, for being total hypocrites. A Zionist should be in Israel, end of story. The only reason they are in our countries is to lobby for support. Screw them. I can’t stand their pawns. I’m talking about the brainless scum who picket a place, repeatedly make violent threats, and flood a journalist or news source for violating the “100% pro-Israel” rule. These are the annoying little rats who scream about “anti-semitism” whenever something doesn’t go their way, or they don’t have total control over something. These are the pitiful wastes of oxygen that sue people for offending them, such as Harvey Kane of the JDL that was responsible for [this bullshit](http://www.theamericanprowler.org/article.asp?art_id=2002_10_7_23_24_6). > [@](#): > > ps I just wondered, do you like cats? Yes. ---
**Author:** ![David\_B](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/51bf81/32.png) [@David\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_B)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2002, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-nationalism-continued-debate-from-bbq/133011/270 "2002-10-23T01:38:57Z")
Sionnach said: > [@](#): > > These are the pitiful wastes of oxygen that sue people for offending them …said the hypocrite who wants to throw people out of the country for disagreeing with her – and nuke 'em to boot. Overall, I’d say suing 'em is a lot better way to handle it than you have suggested. ---
**Author:** ![Super\_Gnat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@Super\_Gnat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Super_Gnat)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2002, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-nationalism-continued-debate-from-bbq/133011/271 "2002-10-23T01:41:29Z")
So you hate the Jews because of their politics? That’s rather unAmerican of you. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2002, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-nationalism-continued-debate-from-bbq/133011/272 "2002-10-23T01:49:06Z")
> [@](#): > > Stirrups are a Central Asian not Arab invention, to the best of my knowledge. D’oh! Sorry. I still want to know-what about certain European groups not being considered white? Would someone PLEASE ANSWER ME!!! Oh, and FWIW, how do you feel about Adolf Hitler? Seriously? ---
**Author:** ![Sionnach](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/76d3ee/32.png) [@Sionnach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sionnach)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2002, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-nationalism-continued-debate-from-bbq/133011/273 "2002-10-23T02:08:34Z")
> [@](#): > > …said the hypocrite who wants to throw people out of the country for disagreeing with her – and nuke 'em to boot. Overall, I’d say suing 'em is a lot better way to handle it than you have suggested. I would throw a group of foreign loyalists out of a country for organized treason. Zionists have no business meddling in any politics in the world but Israel’s politics. > [@](#): > > So you hate the Jews because of their politics? That’s rather unAmerican of you. Since when is it an “American” tradition to love your enemies and rivals? I think you’re confusing America with some lovefest hippieville. > [@](#): > > I still want to know-what about certain European groups not being considered white? Would someone PLEASE ANSWER ME!!! I consider all Europeans white, besides the black/Arab/asian immigrants. > [@](#): > > Oh, and FWIW, how do you feel about Adolf Hitler? Seriously? Hitler is a symbolic cliche. ---
**Author:** ![Jojo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ecd19e/32.png) [@Jojo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jojo)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2002, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-nationalism-continued-debate-from-bbq/133011/274 "2002-10-23T02:10:36Z")
Ah, **DavidB** , I apologise, I didn’t mean that sentence to come out sounding like I was calling for a banning, I wasn’t. Apolgies to sion. > [@](#): > > You think that I think that all Jews are willingly taking part in some conspiracy? That’s not what I think at all. I think that most Jews have a hive-like mentality that makes them support their tribal interests. So the Jews _are_ the borg after all. So, like. do they have a queen and stuff as well? Cool image, you’ve created - the jews as borg. So, are they all drones? as soon as information is given to one of the drones it is immediately known by all the drones. Because they share a, how did you put it, “hive-like mentality”. A hive-mind. hmmm. So lets review the argument: You’re saying that the Jews have a hive mind of some kind, like the borg. I’m saying bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![Sionnach](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/76d3ee/32.png) [@Sionnach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sionnach)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2002, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-nationalism-continued-debate-from-bbq/133011/275 "2002-10-23T02:11:32Z")
> [@](#): > > ## quote: > > ## I still want to know-what about certain European groups not being considered white? Would someone PLEASE ANSWER ME!!! > > I consider all Europeans white, besides the black/Arab/asian immigrants. And besides Jews, because I know someone’s going to say “durr… how about jews??” ---
**Author:** ![Sionnach](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/76d3ee/32.png) [@Sionnach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sionnach)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2002, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-nationalism-continued-debate-from-bbq/133011/276 "2002-10-23T02:13:54Z")
> [@](#): > > So the Jews are the borg after all. > > So, like. do they have a queen and stuff as well? Cool image, you’ve created - the jews as borg. > > So, are they all drones? as soon as information is given to one of the drones it is immediately known by all the drones. Because they share a, how did you put it, “hive-like mentality”. > > A hive-mind. hmmm. > > So lets review the argument: > > You’re saying that the Jews have a hive mind of some kind, like the borg. > > I’m saying bullshit. [Culture of Critique](http://www.carolontheweb.com/links/critique.html) ---
**Author:** ![Super\_Gnat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@Super\_Gnat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Super_Gnat)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2002, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-nationalism-continued-debate-from-bbq/133011/277 "2002-10-23T02:18:09Z")
It is an “American” tradition to accept Americans of all political orientations. Admittedly not always (or often) followed in practiced, but usually at least given lip worship. > [@](#): > > Hitler is a symbolic cliche. Symbolizing what, exactly? To you and to others. And do you plan on responding to my other post? ---
**Author:** ![David\_B](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/51bf81/32.png) [@David\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_B)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2002, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-nationalism-continued-debate-from-bbq/133011/278 "2002-10-23T02:19:08Z")
Sionnach said: > [@](#): > > I would throw a group of foreign loyalists out of a country for organized treason. Zionists have no business meddling in any politics in the world but Israel’s politics. In that case, White Nationalists have no business meddling in any politics in the world but… oh, gosh, you don’t have your own country, do you? Guess you’re shit out of luck. > [@](#): > > I consider all Europeans white, besides the black/Arab/asian immigrants. … And besides Jews, because I know someone’s going to say “durr… how about jews??” OK, why _aren’t_ Jews “white”? I didn’t realize religion had anything to do with skin color. ---
**Author:** ![David\_B](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/51bf81/32.png) [@David\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_B)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2002, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-nationalism-continued-debate-from-bbq/133011/279 "2002-10-23T02:23:54Z")
Super Gnat said: > [@](#): > > It is an “American” tradition to accept Americans of all political orientations. Admittedly not always (or often) followed in practiced, but usually at least given lip worship. Indeed, that is the whole point of the First Amendment. But Nazis never were big on the whole “freedom” issue, so I guess we really shouldn’t be surprised… ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2002, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-nationalism-continued-debate-from-bbq/133011/280 "2002-10-23T02:25:28Z")
BUT, in the past, they were NOT considered to be “white”. As I stated. Hitler is a symbolic cliche-nice dodge. Seriously, do you think he was evil? Or do you think he had the right idea? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-nationalism-continued-debate-from-bbq/133011.md?page=13) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-nationalism-continued-debate-from-bbq/133011.md?page=15)