# White Nationalism: Continued debate from BBQ **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 19, 2002, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-nationalism-continued-debate-from-bbq/133011 "2002-10-19T20:58:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Sionnach](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/76d3ee/32.png) [@Sionnach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sionnach)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2002, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-nationalism-continued-debate-from-bbq/133011/81 "2002-10-20T22:43:29Z")
> [@](#): > > Do you honestly believe that every Jew has stolen something from you? I’m assuming here that you would not seize assets that do not belong to you. Personally? No. You are asking what I would do as a leader of this nation if I were in charge. As a leader of the nation, certain assets would be under suspect. The assets would not be seized for myself. The _segregate and secede_ strategy would render this discussion moot. > [@](#): > > If so, how is it that you ask that everyone here to consider you on your own personal merits, irrespective of the views or activities of other White Nationalists, while you are unwilling to afford to millions of people the exact same courtesy? We reject multiculturalism as a distructive policy for a nation. Crime, ethnic strife, and demands for special treatment follow multiculturalist third-world immigration wherever it goes. Even the white so-called liberals most often flee to a suburb and send kids to private schools rather than stay in a neighborhood that has become a slum. Why should I sit around and inspect every single individual tree instead of seeing what damage the entire forest causes? Whites aren’t flocking to Korea and Somalia and demanding a place for them. The third world flocks to our countries because they like what kind of country whites build. The problem is that our countries are the way they are because they were built by people with a certain heritage and culture. If you trade all the Swedes in Switzerland with Somalis, Switzerland won’t be the country it is today. It will be like Somalia. > [@](#): > > Also, do you include converted white Jews in your, whatever it is — separatism, supremacy, obsession…? That is, is it the Jewish religion that offends you or descendents of the Israelites? It is the tribalism that conflicts with non-Jewish interests wherever Jews go which I am opposed to. Read _A Culture of Critique_ by Kevin MacDonald to have a clue what I am talking about. > [@](#): > > So is a foot fetish. So is an obsessive attraction to fat people of the opposite sex. In fact, so is celibacy. > > But deviation from a norm does not imply any defect. Otherwise, you yourself suffer from all sorts of defects unless you are the perfectly average person. So you you think there should be a foot-fetishist rights group demanding that schoolchildren be taught tolerance to foot fetishism? > [@](#): > > It seems to me that if Zionists control the majority of anything, that represents a weakness on the part of non-Zionists. Meaning, of course, that any claims of non-Zionist superiority are highly suspect. Maybe Zionists control these things, if, indeed, they do, because they have the capacity to do so, and the so-called “White Nationalists” don’t. > > Which means the entire movement smacks of nothing more than sour grapes. If you can’t outcompete them, resort to force and violence. Because, you know, that’s way more enlightened. The reason for Jewish success is that they have always acted as a distinct group looking out for each other’s interests. Cohesive groups will always succeed over bickering individuals. It’s called “Divide and Conquer”. White gentile Americans have been convinced that to act as a group for their own interests is evil, while Jewish groups have a very distinct strategy of doing what is good for the Jews. The same Jewish groups that press for multiculturalism, liberalism, and universalism _reject_ all of that when it comes to Israel. > [@](#): > > I don’t know that the media is trying to pigeonhole you, or even cares that much about you at all. The perception I get from the media is that there are all sorts of vicious hate-filled bigots out there. This is easily verified by a visit to the SF website. What one also sees on such visits is that there are people who purport to be less vicious and less hate-filled, but who nonetheless regard the vicious hate-filled ones as fine people and fellow kampfers. Which is a bit suspicious, so I ask about it. No answer. No answer because I reject your buzzwords about “hate” and “bigotry”. > [@](#): > > When I say “right-wing” I mean what is commonly referred to as right-wing. I am not creating my own definitions here, as you appear to be doing. It might be a good idea to use commonly used terminology, so as to be less confusing. (Your last sentence here is circular – of the “no true Scotsman” variety). What does conservatism have to do with forking over tax dollars to a foreign nation? Everything about the right wing is traditionally against tax spending and dual-loyalty. It’s neoconservatives who have hijacked the right-wing. What makes something “right-wing”? In my opinion, having a certain principle makes someone right wing, not slapping on a pro-GOP badge and mouthing off on Faux News. > [@](#): > > I have no problem with the moderators, or even with you. I have a problem to the extent that you purport to defend WN while defending a watered down version. To the extent that you are clear that you are not defending WN, I don’t have much of a problem with regards to this. Other than the guilt by association matter, which you’ve persistently declined to address. I suppose you would rather me let out a string of slurs so that I can be banned by the mods? My version is about as “watered-down” as the BNP. We want our own nation or we want control of our present nation back. We don’t want to live in a third-world cesspool, and we don’t want to live in a nation controlled by Zionists. We don’t want to put up with black criminals who riot and murder whites. We don’t want to fork over our hard-earned tax dollars so some immigrant can have ten kids. Quite simple. If that makes me “guilty” in your eyes, then I don’t really care what you think. At least I don’t want to rule over anyone in Asia, Africa, or the Middle-east. > [@](#): > > If you could humor me a bit here, what percentage of Jews do you envision staying, based on your criteria and your view of the Jewish population today? Norman Finkelstein can stay. > [@](#): > > You’ve not answered my other question – perhaps you’ve overlooked it. I shall repost: can you tell me how this would achieve your purported goals of preserving white culture? This (I am treating the US and Canada the same here) would remain a country with a large minority population. How do you escape their influence? Ending immigration along with voluntary segregation. > [@](#): > > I am pretty sure Irish groups in the US are a significant factor with regards to US policy towards the IRA. Don’t play petty games. Point to this powerful Irish lobby of yours and show me how it comes anywhere close to AIPAC. Zionist control of US foreign policy is turning the US into a world-wide joke. > [@](#): > > Harharhar. Now that is funny. Or jewspeak sarcasm. Either way, you are evading the question. Which is, whether you consider that to have been an example of dual-loyalty, and do you feel that they should have been shipped back to Germany. Any foreign interest group that comes remotely close to the power of the Zionist lobby is a threat to the sovereignity of a nation. If they were just a little club, I wouldn’t deport them. If they were pressing politicians to support Germany at the expense of their own and demand taxpayers give billions to Germany even when there was proof that Germany was infiltrating the country with spies, they would have to go. \*"…It is our true policy to steer clear of permanent alliances with any portion of the foreign world; so far, I mean, as we are now at liberty to do it; for let me not be understood as capable of patronizing infidelity to existing engagements. I hold the maxim no less applicable to public than to private affairs, that honesty is always the best policy. I repeat it, therefore, let those engagements be observed in their genuine sense. But, in my opinion, it is unnecessary and would be unwise to extend them…As avenues to foreign influence in innumerable ways, such attachments are particularly alarming to the truly enlightened and independent Patriot. How many opportunities do they afford to tamper with domestic factions, to practise the arts of seduction, to mislead public opinion, to influence or awe the Public Councils… - - George Washington > [@](#): > > Because your ostensible reason for not respecting actions of “minority groups” has nothing to do with their manner of lobbying – supposedly it’s all about preserving the White heritage and culture which are under attack. You appear to be stretching here. Teaching schoolchildren “Gay is Good!” isn’t in the best interests of those who wish to preserve our culture. We don’t want to live in a liberalized, multiculturalized “nation” full of people demanding “rights” for whatever sexual deviance strikes their fancy at the moment. Be homosexual in your own bedroom, write out a will, and be thankful you don’t live in a Muslim nation that would behead you. ---
**Author:** ![Sionnach](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/76d3ee/32.png) [@Sionnach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sionnach)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2002, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-nationalism-continued-debate-from-bbq/133011/82 "2002-10-20T22:58:11Z")
> [@](#): > > Why is supporting a particular foreign policy stance “treason” and outside the bounds of free and open debate, but seeking to undermine the fundamental constitutional principles of this country is just peachy? The Zionist lobby allows no free and open debate. There is more open debate within Israel than in the US Congress about support of Israel’s policies. When there is a choice between defending the sovereignity of my nation and caring about the perceived “rights” of dual-loyalists to extort, smear, and bribe politicians into supporting another country, I choose my nation. The Zionists can go live in their own. > [@](#): > > To clarify minty’s point with regards to this: what you are saying is that whether something is a hate crime is insignificant. What we are discussing is whether there is a “double standard” at play in not making as big a deal about this crime as about the Byrd death. And to the extent that this difference is merely a product of the fact that one was not a hate crime, there is no evidence of a double standard. You may disagree with the idea of making a big deal over hate crimes, but the reality is that this is done, and the difference in coverage was the result of this reality. Not the result of the difference in the race of the perpetrators and victims. There is a double standard, and you know it. If two whites brutalized and murdered five blacks, it would be all over the media and the outrage would be huge. Jesse Jackson would be leaping around screaming about evil White America. There wouldn’t need to be any proof because _it would already be assumed that it is a hate crime_. The only reason it isn’t being called a hate crime now is because they immediately rejected that theory before even considering it. A black person would have to be wearing a “Kill Whitey” shirt nowadays while doing his crimes for the media to consider that black criminals target white victims. Look what happens whenever a cop even pushes a black guy who’s resisting arrest. The media doesn’t even need to know the facts before they scream about police brutality and racist cops. ---
**Author:** ![minty\_green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2002, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-nationalism-continued-debate-from-bbq/133011/83 "2002-10-20T23:04:39Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Sionnach_ > The problem is that our countries are the way they are because they were built by people with a certain heritage and culture. Ever read _Guns, Germs, and Steel_? The author makes a highly compelling argument that the reasons for the social success of Europe are due to the incredible mixing of ideas that was an inevitable result of the _diversity_ of European peoples. More peoples/cultures = more exchange of ideas = more advanced civilizations. That the Europeans had pale-to-not-so-pale skin had nothing at all to do with it–the underlying conditions for rapid advancement simply didn’t exist elsewhere (except for China, which got derailed by closing itself off to outsiders). In addition, how do you account for modern success stories like Japan, Korea, and Singapore (lemme guess-they’re Asians, right?) or the modern failures of Russia and much of Eastern Europe (Jews, right?)? ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2002, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-nationalism-continued-debate-from-bbq/133011/84 "2002-10-20T23:20:24Z")
I think what people want is the right to walk down the street, and hold hands, and NOT have to worry about being beaten or killed. Or the right to simply say, “My boyfriend”, as a straight man would mention is girlfriend. Not explicit sexually, but just, as in, “My boyfriend and I are going to the movies on Saturday.” Also, what defines “white?” ---
**Author:** ![Sionnach](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/76d3ee/32.png) [@Sionnach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sionnach)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2002, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-nationalism-continued-debate-from-bbq/133011/85 "2002-10-20T23:38:25Z")
> [@](#): > > I think what people want is the right to walk down the street, and hold hands, and NOT have to worry about being beaten or killed. White people can’t walk around in non-white slums without getting beaten or killed. > [@](#): > > Ever read Guns, Germs, and Steel? The author makes a highly compelling argument that the reasons for the social success of Europe are due to the incredible mixing of ideas that was an inevitable result of the diversity of European peoples. More peoples/cultures = more exchange of ideas = more advanced civilizations. That the Europeans had pale-to-not-so-pale skin had nothing at all to do with it–the underlying conditions for rapid advancement simply didn’t exist elsewhere (except for China, which got derailed by closing itself off to outsiders). No, I have not read that book, but I am sure there are many multi-cult books around with the “diversity is strength” message. > [@](#): > > In addition, how do you account for modern success stories like Japan, Korea, and Singapore (lemme guess-they’re Asians, right?) or the modern failures of Russia and much of Eastern Europe (Jews, right?)? They haven’t bought into the multi-cult. Japan is racially homogenous with common traditions and culture that respect education, family, and work ethic that leads to success. Import millions of third-world immigrants and American blacks/mestizos into Japan, and they’ll have the same problems. They’re smart enough to not allow it in the first place, for now. The West has forgotten the notion of “quality over quantity”. Russia and Eastern Europe are in a mess because of communism. You aren’t far off the mark when you mention Jews. Jews were prominent in the Bolshevist movement that brought communism to Russia. And to think that some people still want communism… ---
**Author:** ![Sionnach](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/76d3ee/32.png) [@Sionnach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sionnach)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2002, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-nationalism-continued-debate-from-bbq/133011/86 "2002-10-20T23:51:45Z")
> [@](#): > > More peoples/cultures = more exchange of ideas = more advanced civilizations. I’m going to take this quote out and ask a question. What do third-worlders have to offer to the West today? What deep ideas do they have that we need? What can Africans offer? Voodoo and FGM? Restaurants? Voting ballots printed in ten languages? Get real. Third-worlders aren’t strengthening our society or offering any meaningful “exchange of ideas”. They’re imported for cheap labor without any regard for the present inhabitants. ---
**Author:** ![minty\_green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2002, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-nationalism-continued-debate-from-bbq/133011/87 "2002-10-20T23:55:24Z")
You claim that Japan, Korea, and Singapore have succeeded because they are racially homogenous. But many, many countries (even in Asia) are racially homogenous and have failed miserably at creating successful modern societies. Meanwhile, America–which has embraced diversity and widespread immigration for a hell of a long time–is the most advanced, successful, and all-around bad-ass motherfucker of a nation this planet has ever seen. Explanations, please? ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2002, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-nationalism-continued-debate-from-bbq/133011/88 "2002-10-20T23:56:14Z")
What about Slavs? Are Slavs still considered not white? I’d like to know, because I really don’t think there is such a thing as “White”. If you think about it hard enough, being “White” is pretty diverse in and of itself. A Byzantine Orthodox Russian man is worlds away from an Irish Catholic school girl and neither have much in common with your Prussian Protestant shoemaker. Er, something. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![minty\_green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2002, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-nationalism-continued-debate-from-bbq/133011/89 "2002-10-20T23:59:01Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Sionnach \* > Get real. Get educated. Read the book. It won the Pulitzer Prize for history, you know. (Is that a jewprize?) ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2002, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-nationalism-continued-debate-from-bbq/133011/90 "2002-10-21T00:05:46Z")
> [@](#): > > White people can’t walk around in non-white slums without getting beaten or killed. Not ture. I used to live in a non-white area here in Metro DC–never had a speck of trouble. In fact, the two times I was robbed, it was by white guys (I’m white, too), so I guess that means I should fear my own people. > [@](#): > > Get real. Third-worlders aren’t strengthening our society or offering any meaningful “exchange of ideas”. They’re imported for cheap labor without any regard for the present inhabitants. That’s ridiculous on its face. America has always importeds cheap labor. A century os so ago, we imported the Irish and Italians, poor people from poor nations, be cause they worked cheaply. Now its the turn of Latin America and Asia. As long as the immigrants learn English and become part of the great melting pot, I got no problem with them. And the restaurants alone are worth allowing immigration. If I couldn’t have Thai curry, Korean barbecue, Salvadoran pupusas, and Ethiopian stews, I’d just starve. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2002, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-nationalism-continued-debate-from-bbq/133011/91 "2002-10-21T00:06:37Z")
> [@](#): > > Get real. Third-worlders aren’t strengthening our society or offering any meaningful “exchange of ideas”. They’re imported for cheap labor without any regard for the present inhabitants. And why are they third worlders? Because of their color? Or it is something more complicated? What about ancient Egypt? What about the Incas, the Mayans and the Aztecs? Another thing-about so-called inter-racial breeding-if we keep breeding with “ourselves”, aren’t we going to end up inbreeding? ---
**Author:** ![Sionnach](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/76d3ee/32.png) [@Sionnach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sionnach)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2002, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-nationalism-continued-debate-from-bbq/133011/92 "2002-10-21T00:13:31Z")
> [@](#): > > You claim that Japan, Korea, and Singapore have succeeded because they are racially homogenous. But many, many countries (even in Asia) are racially homogenous and have failed miserably at creating successful modern societies. Meanwhile, America–which has embraced diversity and widespread immigration for a hell of a long time–is the most advanced, successful, and all-around bad-ass motherfucker of a nation this planet has ever seen. Until a few decades ago, all those immigrants were EUROPEANS. America grew from a few little colonies into a strong nation from sea-to-sea with EUROPEAN immigrants. Immigration was restricted to whites. Floods of immigration were balanced with periods of strict immigration control. America was always majority white until third world immigration was allowed. Ironically, when third world immigration was being considered, it’s proponents claimed it would be no big deal and wouldn’t change the cultural landscape of America. Nowadays, we know that’s a lie because the cultural landscape has been radically changed and they chant “Diversity is strength” instead. Some liberals even still believe it as they flee to the suburbs when their old neighborhood goes down the drain. What do Somalis have to offer to the West? ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2002, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-nationalism-continued-debate-from-bbq/133011/93 "2002-10-21T00:22:00Z")
That’s a crock. When immigration began to come from Europe, not EVERY European was seen as “white”. In fact, originally, Slavs, Irish, Italians, Greeks were all seen as “dirty” and “foreign”. Now, all of a sudden, they’re white. The perspective changes over time. In fact, when my great grandparents got married, my great great grandmother was furious because her son-a good little German boy-was going to marry and _Irish_ girl! Nowadays, that would be no big deal. It would so not be an issue. But back in the 1920s, it was a very big deal. Someday, I hope that becomes the case with a black person and a white person marrying. ---
**Author:** ![IzzyR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/2acd7d/32.png) [@IzzyR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IzzyR)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2002, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-nationalism-continued-debate-from-bbq/133011/94 "2002-10-21T00:22:29Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Sionnach \* > No answer because I reject your buzzwords about “hate” and “bigotry”. Oh, is that what it is? Let’s try this. On your fine SF MB there is a poll (at [stormfront.org/forum/poll.php?action=showresults&pollid=374](http://stormfront.org/forum/poll.php?action=showresults&pollid=374)). Topic: How much do you hate the Jews? And the results are… > [@](#): > > Blindly! – I would decapitate one at sight. 13 > They make me sick! 18 > Moderately. I would judge them as individuals. 20 > A foolish question! – Why would I hate them at all? 8 I would assume that most or all of the final group are “anti’s” – I certainly have not seen such sentiment expressed on the SFMB. Which leaves 3 groups. I notice that you are in the third group – i.e. the moderate group. And you want to deport all the Jews except Norman Finkelstein and seize most of their assets. So let’s consider the first two groups, shall we? As a moderate Jew-hater, what is your opinion of, say, those who hate Jews blindly and would decapitate one at sight? Fine White people? > [@](#): > > What does conservatism have to do with forking over tax dollars to a foreign nation? Everything about the right wing is traditionally against tax spending and dual-loyalty. It’s neoconservatives who have hijacked the right-wing. What makes something “right-wing”? In my opinion, having a certain principle makes someone right wing, not slapping on a pro-GOP badge and mouthing off on Faux News. The problem is that using terms as they should be defined according to your opinion can lead to a lot of confusion, when your opinion conflicts with that of the people you are addressing. So it is wise to avoid this. But never mind. Having established that “conservative” as used by Sionnach means “White Nationalist” and liberal means “everyone else” we can now be clear regarding your future use of such terms. Please be consistent, though. > [@](#): > > I suppose you would rather me let out a string of slurs so that I can be banned by the mods? My version is about as “watered-down” as the BNP. We want our own nation or we want control of our present nation back. We don’t want to live in a third-world cesspool, and we don’t want to live in a nation controlled by Zionists. We don’t want to put up with black criminals who riot and murder whites. We don’t want to fork over our hard-earned tax dollars so some immigrant can have ten kids. Quite simple. If that makes me “guilty” in your eyes, then I don’t really care what you think. At least I don’t want to rule over anyone in Asia, Africa, or the Middle-east. I don’t know how any of this connects to what I’ve said. Does it? > [@](#): > > Ending immigration along with voluntary segregation. Ending immigration does not get you there. So let’s talk about “voluntary segregation”. On whose end is it voluntary? Suppose all sorts of Blacks and Hispanics are not interested in returning to segregation – as I imagine they would not be. How do you bring about this “voluntary segregation”? > [@](#): > > Don’t play petty games. Point to this powerful Irish lobby of yours and show me how it comes anywhere close to AIPAC. It doesn’t come anywhere close to AIPAC – there simply are not that many outstanding issues with Ireland. I’ve heard it brought up with regards to the US extradition of IRA terrorists to England. There is thought to be pressure from Irish-Americans not to do this. But I don’t think it makes a difference how much power a given traitor has. If there are Irish groups who influence the US due to allegiance to their Irish heritage, straining relations with GB, they should be – by your standards – dual-loyalists. > [@](#): > > Any foreign interest group that comes remotely close to the power of the Zionist lobby is a threat to the sovereignity of a nation. If they were just a little club, I wouldn’t deport them. If they were pressing politicians to support Germany at the expense of their own and demand taxpayers give billions to Germany even when there was proof that Germany was infiltrating the country with spies, they would have to go. Actually, I think the issues facing the country at that time – with war looming and the US forced to take a side – were far more serious than the current foreign aid budget. Here’s some info on the activities of the Bund, from some sources that you may well recognize: Dr. William Pierce: (at [www.natvan.com/free-speech/fs002a.html](http://www.natvan.com/free-speech/fs002a.html)) > [@](#): > > The first part of the program deals with 1930s organizations such as Friends of the New Germany and the German-American Bund, which tried to counter the Jews’ hate-propaganda against Germany in America, to build unity among German-Americans, to help Americans generally understand what Adolf Hitler was doing in his rebuilding of Germany, and to a lesser extent to propagate Hitler’s National Socialist ideas in America. And from what appears to be your own group: (at [www4.stormfront.org/posterity/ns/nshistory.html](http://www4.stormfront.org/posterity/ns/nshistory.html) > [@](#): > > The primary NS group in the U. S. during the 1930s was the German American Bund, led by Fritz Kuhn. The Bund staged a number of highly publicized rallies and marches and other events but actually wielded very little power or influence. In part this was because it was too closely associated with the German government in the public’s mind, but also because the Bund was primarily comprised of German immigrants or Americans of recent German descent, and so achieved strength only in those areas of the country which at that time had large German populations, such as New York, New Jersey, the upper Midwest in cities like Milwaukee and Chicago, and a few other areas. The Bund was outlawed in 1941 by the Roosevelt régime, Fritz Kuhn and other leaders were interned, and the organization disappeared from the American scene. So we have a group of German immigrants and people of recent German descent trying to influence the direction of US foreign policy in the direction of their homeland at a critical point in time. One would think that Pierce et al would be condemning the treacherous efforts of the dual-loyalists. What gives? > [@](#): > > Teaching schoolchildren “Gay is Good!” isn’t in the best interests of those who wish to preserve our culture. We don’t want to live in a liberalized, multiculturalized “nation” full of people demanding “rights” for whatever sexual deviance strikes their fancy at the moment. Once again: what does this have to do with WN? You are failing to understand – or weaseling around - what seems to be a relatively simple point. Demonstrating that you can include the words “multiculturalized” and “sexual deviance” in a single sentence doesn’t do it. ---
**Author:** ![Sionnach](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/76d3ee/32.png) [@Sionnach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sionnach)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2002, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-nationalism-continued-debate-from-bbq/133011/95 "2002-10-21T00:22:47Z")
> [@](#): > > Not ture. I used to live in a non-white area here in Metro DC–never had a speck of trouble. In fact, the two times I was robbed, it was by white guys (I’m white, too), so I guess that means I should fear my own people. Don’t even try to deny that there are non-white slums that whites can’t walk around in without being in danger. I used to live near LA. I’m glad I moved. > [@](#): > > That’s ridiculous on its face. America has always importeds cheap labor. A century os so ago, we imported the Irish and Italians, poor people from poor nations, be cause they worked cheaply. Now its the turn of Latin America and Asia. As long as the immigrants learn English and become part of the great melting pot, I got no problem with them. LoL… even though we don’t even have a labor shortage in the US, you don’t care because they work cheaply. Screw white workers, bring in the immigrants for someone to exploit. If they don’t like us bringing in cheap non-whites to exploit for labor, we’ll call them “supremacists”. > [@](#): > > And the restaurants alone are worth allowing immigration. If I couldn’t have Thai curry, Korean barbecue, Salvadoran pupusas, and Ethiopian stews, I’d just starve. You can stay in your little melting pot of Ethiopian stew. Some people don’t want it. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2002, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-nationalism-continued-debate-from-bbq/133011/96 "2002-10-21T00:24:05Z")
> [@](#): > > Until a few decades ago, all those immigrants were EUROPEANS. America grew from a few little colonies into a strong nation from sea-to-sea with EUROPEAN immigrants. Again, not true. Who do you think built the railroads in the 1860s? The Chinese. Who do you think we imported as farm labor in the 19th century? The Japanese and Koreans. Who do you think we emplyed as farm labor after the McCarran Act locked out the Asians? Central Americans. In fact, in the Southwest, Spanish-speakers are the natives–English speakers are the immigrants. ---
**Author:** ![Darwins\_Finch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darwins_finch/32/20304_2.png) [@Darwins\_Finch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darwins_Finch)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2002, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-nationalism-continued-debate-from-bbq/133011/97 "2002-10-21T00:28:30Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Sionnach \* > **The reason for Jewish success is that they have always acted as a distinct group looking out for each other’s interests. Cohesive groups will always succeed over bickering individuals. It’s called “Divide and Conquer”. White gentile Americans have been convinced that to act as a group for their own interests is evil, while Jewish groups have a very distinct strategy of doing what is good for the Jews.** So, essentially, the Jews have beaten you by using a superior strategy. It is as I said before: sour grapes. > [@](#): > > **We reject multiculturalism as a distructive policy for a nation. Crime, ethnic strife, and demands for special treatment follow multiculturalist third-world immigration wherever it goes. Even the white so-called liberals most often flee to a suburb and send kids to private schools rather than stay in a neighborhood that has become a slum.** Little confused as to cause-and-effect, are we? How’s this: if there hadn’t been a history in the U.S. of whites treating immigrants as inferior, there wouldn’t be any ethnic strife (or significantly less, at any rate). So-called demands for special treatment are, in reality, demands for _equal_ treatment, again because of the aforementioned history of treating immigrants as inferior. You need look no further than your own imbitterment toward Jews to see how perceptions of powerelessness can translate to strife. As for your final point, it should be obvious that when an area is economically depressed, people will strive to leave, regardless how it came to be that way. Multi-culturalism is certainly flawed if implemented in the way it was early in this country’s history: the importing of slaves and other cheap labor. That does not, however, translate to multi-culturalism being inherently flawed, as you claim. ---
**Author:** ![Sionnach](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/76d3ee/32.png) [@Sionnach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sionnach)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2002, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-nationalism-continued-debate-from-bbq/133011/98 "2002-10-21T00:30:19Z")
> [@](#): > > Another thing-about so-called inter-racial breeding-if we keep breeding with “ourselves”, aren’t we going to end up inbreeding? Europeans have survived for thousands of years without having sex with Africans. So have Asians, for that matter. ---
**Author:** ![minty\_green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2002, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-nationalism-continued-debate-from-bbq/133011/99 "2002-10-21T00:34:30Z")
Once again, the facts alleged by Sionnach are completely wrong. Large numbers of Asian immigrants (Chinese and Japanese) came to America starting around the mid-1800s. Millions of Africans immigrated in the 18th-early 19th centuries under rather less voluntary circumstances. And don’t even freakin’ _contemplate_ how Texas and the rest of the Southwest would have turned out (rather like North Dakota, I suspect) without bunches of Mexicans. Of course, you’re also forgetting that most of the immigration restrictions in the early part of the 20th century were aimed at Eastern and Southern Europeans. > [@](#): > > What do Somalis have to offer to the West? Hard work and some freakin’ gratitude. More than some people I know. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2002, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-nationalism-continued-debate-from-bbq/133011/100 "2002-10-21T00:45:18Z")
> [@](#): > > Europeans have survived for thousands of years without having sex with Africans. So have Asians, for that matter Again, not so. Asians and Africans had little to do with each other because trade and colonization between the two continents never developed. But Europeans and their descendants have had plenty of sex with Africans and their descendants. Just ask Mary Boykin Chesnut, the noted Civil War diarist: > [@](#): > > The mulattoes one sees in every family exactly resemble the white children–and every lady tells you who is the father of all the mulatto children in everybody’s household. but those in her own, she seems to think dropped from the clouds, or pretends so to think… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-nationalism-continued-debate-from-bbq/133011.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-nationalism-continued-debate-from-bbq/133011.md?page=6)