# White Nationalism: Continued debate from BBQ **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 19, 2002, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-nationalism-continued-debate-from-bbq/133011 "2002-10-19T20:58:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Sionnach](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/76d3ee/32.png) [@Sionnach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sionnach)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2002, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-nationalism-continued-debate-from-bbq/133011/101 "2002-10-21T00:45:22Z")
> [@](#): > > The problem is that using terms as they should be defined according to your opinion can lead to a lot of confusion, when your opinion conflicts with that of the people you are addressing. So it is wise to avoid this. But never mind. Having established that “conservative” as used by Sionnach means “White Nationalist” and liberal means “everyone else” we can now be clear regarding your future use of such terms. Please be consistent, though. No, conservative does not mean WN. Look up the difference between Paleoconservatism and Neoconservatism and get back to me. Anyone who knows about right-wing politics knows the difference. > [@](#): > > Little confused as to cause-and-effect, are we? How’s this: if there hadn’t been a history in the U.S. of whites treating immigrants as inferior, there wouldn’t be any ethnic strife (or significantly less, at any rate). So-called demands for special treatment are, in reality, demands for equal treatment, again because of the aforementioned history of treating immigrants as inferior. You need look no further than your own imbitterment toward Jews to see how perceptions of powerelessness can translate to strife. Sorry, but this is a total line of bull. When you immigrate to another country, it’s a _privilege_ and you should be greatful that you weren’t stuck back in your old country that you apparently hated enough to leave. It’s up to the immigrants to assimilate and respect the present inhabitants. It’s not up to the nativeborn people to accomodate. If you don’t like it, you can go back to your old country. There is no excuse for rioting, crime, and vandalism just because some liberals think it’s ok for non-whites to do whatever they want. Still not sold on multiculturalism. So far all I get is that whites need diverse restaurants from the third world to survive and that when they immigrate in and cause problems it’s because we don’t bend over backwards to help them out like the poor little children they are. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2002, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-nationalism-continued-debate-from-bbq/133011/102 "2002-10-21T00:45:56Z")
> [@](#): > > You can stay in your little melting pot of Ethiopian stew. Some people don’t want it. Key word being SOME. Some of us LIKE ethnic cuisine. And you STILL have yet to address anything I’ve said. ---
**Author:** ![Darwins\_Finch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darwins_finch/32/20304_2.png) [@Darwins\_Finch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darwins_Finch)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2002, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-nationalism-continued-debate-from-bbq/133011/103 "2002-10-21T00:48:51Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Sionnach \* > \*\*LoL… even though we don’t even have a labor shortage in the US, you don’t care because they work cheaply. Screw white workers, bring in the immigrants for someone to exploit. \*\* So, how many whites do you know who have applied for, say, jobs as agricultural laborers, and were turned away as a result of these non-white immigrants? Would _you_ work anywhere in this country for but a few dollars a day, if that? I fail to see how it is the whites getting screwed in this deal. ---
**Author:** ![Darwins\_Finch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darwins_finch/32/20304_2.png) [@Darwins\_Finch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darwins_Finch)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2002, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-nationalism-continued-debate-from-bbq/133011/104 "2002-10-21T00:55:29Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Sionnach \* > \*\*LoL… even though we don’t even have a labor shortage in the US, you don’t care because they work cheaply. Screw white workers, bring in the immigrants for someone to exploit. \*\* So, how many whites do you know who have applied for, say, jobs as agricultural laborers, and were turned away as a result of these non-white immigrants? Would _you_ work anywhere in this country for but a few dollars a day, if that? I fail to see how it is the whites getting screwed in this deal. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2002, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-nationalism-continued-debate-from-bbq/133011/105 "2002-10-21T00:59:48Z")
> [@](#): > > Europeans have survived for thousands of years without having sex with Africans. So have Asians, for that matter But then, when they did, we end up with people like Aleksander Pushkin. So, all in all, it’s a good thing. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![IzzyR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/2acd7d/32.png) [@IzzyR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IzzyR)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2002, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-nationalism-continued-debate-from-bbq/133011/106 "2002-10-21T01:17:42Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Sionnach \* > No, conservative does not mean WN. Look up the difference between Paleoconservatism and Neoconservatism and get back to me. Anyone who knows about right-wing politics knows the difference. So you’ve decided to concede all my other points and concentrate on semantics? If not, feel free to address the more substantive issues. As for this, I am not going to bother looking anything up, because it is irrelevant. Whatever the exact definition might be of Paleaoconservative, the fact remains that it alone is not what is commonly meant when conservative is used. Or, more significantly, the term “leftist” is not commonly understood to refer to “all besides Paleoconservatives”. Which is how you’ve used it here. Point stands. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2002, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-nationalism-continued-debate-from-bbq/133011/107 "2002-10-21T01:17:42Z")
> [@](#): > > Europeans have survived for thousands of years without having sex with Africans. So have Asians, for that matter But then, when they did, we end up with people like Aleksander Pushkin. So, all in all, it’s a good thing. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2002, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-nationalism-continued-debate-from-bbq/133011/108 "2002-10-21T01:23:08Z")
> [@](#): > > When you immigrate to another country, it’s a privilege and you should be greatful that you weren’t stuck back in your old country that you apparently hated enough to leave. That’s fine. Since the majority of blacks were brought to this country prior to the massive immigration of European whites, this would indicate that the blacks should be able to tell any white whose ancestors landed after 1808 to just go home. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2002, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-nationalism-continued-debate-from-bbq/133011/109 "2002-10-21T01:25:25Z")
> [@](#): > > Sorry, but this is a total line of bull. When you immigrate to another country, it’s a privilege and you should be greatful that you weren’t stuck back in your old country that you apparently hated enough to leave. It’s up to the immigrants to assimilate and respect the present inhabitants. It’s not up to the nativeborn people to accomodate. If you don’t like it, you can go back to your old country. I don’t think you’ll get too much disagreement here. > [@](#): > > There is no excuse for rioting, crime, and vandalism just because some liberals think it’s ok for non-whites to do whatever they want. A. “Liberals” do not condone rioting, crime, and vandalism by non-whites (at least the sensible ones son’d) B. If you bother to check history, you’ll find the the rioting, crime, and vandalism is commited by whites against nonwhites. ---
**Author:** ![Ring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Ring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ring)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2002, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-nationalism-continued-debate-from-bbq/133011/110 "2002-10-21T02:25:52Z")
**Sionnach** I don’t necessarily agree with your views, but, nonetheless, I must say that IMHO you’re doing an admirable job in parrying the multiple thrusts of a much larger group. All of whom (who? - I have a technical education) seem to think you should immediately answer each and every question thrown at you even though you’re but one person and they are the many. I also like the way you dismiss some of the more egregiously ridiculous contentions; Even Jesse Jackson says he’s relieved when he sees two white men rather than two blacks following him late at night. I haven’t visited the SF board yet, but if some of the more moderate posters would like to post here I think it would have a salutary affect on the overall interest level - it can get tiring listening to people argue about who’s the most liberal. I wonder if others at the SDMB feel the same way? Of course I humbly bow to the omnipotence of the moderators. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2002, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-nationalism-continued-debate-from-bbq/133011/111 "2002-10-21T02:35:24Z")
**Ring** -the only trouble is, there aren’t really too many moderates over there. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2002, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-nationalism-continued-debate-from-bbq/133011/112 "2002-10-21T02:36:20Z")
> [@](#): > > LoL… even though we don’t even have a labor shortage in the US, you don’t care because they work cheaply. Screw white workers, bring in the immigrants for someone to exploit. If they don’t like us bringing in cheap non-whites to exploit for labor, we’ll call them “supremacists”. how are white workers being inconvenienced by having nonwhite immigrants taking jobs nobody else wants–picking vegetables, hotel maids, 7/11 clerks, slaughterhouse work? I don’t know about you, but I went to university so that I could work in a well-paid profession and not have to compete for minimum wage labor. Somebody > [@](#): > > You can stay in your little melting pot of Ethiopian stew. Some people don’t want it. You wouldn’t say that if you had ever tasted Yegeb Atkilt (curried lamb with onions, carrots, and green and yellow peppers). I feel sorry for people who have never traveled to other countries and who have no appreciation or understanding of the world outside of the borders of the United States. You know what’s really dad about the SF board folks? They’ve never been anywherea dn they’ve seen nothing. How can anyone see the Taj Mahal by moonlight, or meditate in a Buddhist temple in Bangkok, or bask in the serenity of the Zen sand garden of Ryoanji Temple in Kyoto, or enjoy the warmth and hospitality of a Fijian family, and say that there is no value in non-Western cultures. Have **Sionnach** and her friends never read the heroic dialogue of duty and honor between Krishna and Arjuna in the **Baghavad-Gita**? Have they never heard of the teachings of Lao-Tze, Buddha, and Confucius? Have they never been to a museum and looked with awe upon the sinuous lines of a Tang dynasty horse, a Khmer _apsara_, a Mayan bas-relief, or a Korean celadon jar? Have they never heard of Chinese opera, or Indonesian shadow puppets, or Mexican _corridas_? I feel sorry for such poverty of the spirit and the mind that is threatened by exposure to unfamiliar art, food, and music. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2002, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-nationalism-continued-debate-from-bbq/133011/113 "2002-10-21T02:41:05Z")
_Exactly_, **gobear**. I mean, it would be like getting up every single day, having peanutbutter and jelly sandwhiches every day for breakfast, lunch and dinner, wearing the same clothes day after day, watching the same movies, the same music, the same people. Variety is, as they say, the spice of life! I for one find it very dull if things are always the same. And I’m DYING for a Japanese kimono. I LOVE Asian dress and Indian fabrics. The rich silks and embroidery…ooooohhhh… You can have your plain white bread-I’m having garlic cheese bread. ---
**Author:** ![minty\_green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2002, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-nationalism-continued-debate-from-bbq/133011/114 "2002-10-21T02:43:09Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Sionnach_ > You can stay in your little melting pot of Ethiopian stew. Some people don’t want it. But I do. And the curry, and the sushi, and all the rest of it. Question is, what do you propose to do about it? > [@](#): > > Still not sold on multiculturalism. So far all I get is that whites need diverse restaurants from the third world to survive and that when they immigrate in and cause problems it’s because we don’t bend over backwards to help them out like the poor little children they are. Same thing was said about every late 19th- and early 20th-century European immigrant group, sweetie. I know you think that the Irish gave America the Italian Renaissance and all, but I happen to be glad they’re here on their own merits. Mmmmm, Guinness Stout. Still not sure what the Lithuanians have ever done for America, though. Should we have them deported? Bloody ingrates. ---
**Author:** ![IzzyR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/2acd7d/32.png) [@IzzyR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IzzyR)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2002, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-nationalism-continued-debate-from-bbq/133011/115 "2002-10-21T02:50:34Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Ring \* > I don’t necessarily agree with your views, but, nonetheless, I must say that IMHO you’re doing an admirable job in parrying the multiple thrusts of a much larger group. I don’t think the very act of parrying thrusts is important, so much as how they are being parried. Forthrightly, and making valid counterpoints, or bobbing and weaving. Judge for yourself - if you believe she is making valid points, perhaps you will take them up yourself. > [@](#): > > I haven’t visited the SF board yet, but if some of the more moderate posters would like to post here I think it would have a salutary affect on the overall interest level - it can get tiring listening to people argue about who’s the most liberal. I don’t think it is significant if they are moderate - thoughtfulness and forthrightness are more important, IMHO. Though there appears to be some correlation, as noted. ---
**Author:** ![David\_B](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/51bf81/32.png) [@David\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_B)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2002, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-nationalism-continued-debate-from-bbq/133011/116 "2002-10-21T02:56:50Z")
Libertarian said: > [@](#): > > Dammit, David, I wish you’d just drop it. She has answered you. She gave you an answer you didn’t like. Criminey! No, Libby, she didn’t. Not the first time I asked. Not the second. Not the third. Not ever. I don’t know what the fuck you’re reading, but it apparently is something other than this thread. Oh, and she **still** hasn’t answered it – probably relying on your little temper tantrum to throw off the question yet again. > [@](#): > > This is the first new and interesting topic in a while, and you drop in like a bull in a china shop after not being heard from in Great Debates for what, a year or two? Your patented heavy-handedness is contributing nothing here. Please stop it. You aren’t debating. You’re bullying. I have asked a legitimate question that she has avoided answering every single time. You don’t find that at all worthy of a follow-up? This is supposed to be a **debate** , and she can’t – or rather won’t – answer a simple, straightforward question. I don’t know what your problem is, Lib, but I think you need to step back and take a breath before you scream and whine again. It doesn’t suit you. ---
**Author:** ![David\_B](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/51bf81/32.png) [@David\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_B)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2002, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-nationalism-continued-debate-from-bbq/133011/117 "2002-10-21T03:14:27Z")
Sionnach said: > [@](#): > > When you immigrate to another country, it’s a privilege and you should be greatful that you weren’t stuck back in your old country that you apparently hated enough to leave. It’s up to the immigrants to assimilate and respect the present inhabitants. It’s not up to the nativeborn people to accomodate. If you don’t like it, you can go back to your old country. So you’ll be heading back to Europe when, then? And giving your land back to the Native Americans, of course, right? ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2002, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-nationalism-continued-debate-from-bbq/133011/118 "2002-10-21T03:15:16Z")
jewspeak=sarcasm over at the SFMB. I figured as much from reading the threads about the place here, and from reading the thread that accused someone of it there. Why? I have no clue. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2002, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-nationalism-continued-debate-from-bbq/133011/119 "2002-10-21T03:18:08Z")
Well, if **Sionnach** and her pals really want to eschew all non-European culture and technology, they’re going to have to give up a lot more than sushi. No jazz, blues, rock and roll (the child of the blues), or country/western music (banjos are an African instrument). No peanut butter (invented by a black man), no blood typing in the hospital (discovered by a black man), no shampoo (from India), no cotton (Egypt and India) no chewing gum (Mexico), no rubber (Indonesia) no cinnamon, vanilla, chocolate, coffee, tea, tomatoes, potatoes, squash, bananas, papayas, turkey, black pepper, or chile peppers (all from Asia or the Americas, so not European in origin). They can’t use computers (90 percent of the world’s motherboards are made in Taiwan), no video games, VCRs, or DVDs (all from Japan). ---
**Author:** ![David\_B](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/51bf81/32.png) [@David\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_B)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2002, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-nationalism-continued-debate-from-bbq/133011/120 "2002-10-21T03:24:05Z")
See, if it’s so simple, why can’t she reply? And really, I didn’t ask what it was, I asked about her use of bigoted insults with cutesy little smileys… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-nationalism-continued-debate-from-bbq/133011.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-nationalism-continued-debate-from-bbq/133011.md?page=7)