# White Nationalism Crawls Out of the Shadows into the Spotlight **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [November 20, 2016, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-nationalism-crawls-out-of-the-shadows-into-the-spotlight/772503 "2016-11-20T03:34:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2016, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-nationalism-crawls-out-of-the-shadows-into-the-spotlight/772503/61 "2016-11-21T13:46:11Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > …I could easily accuse you of being a doe-eyed idealist for thinking this thing is more than a Facebook fad. But I won’t do that… Damned white of you! ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2016, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-nationalism-crawls-out-of-the-shadows-into-the-spotlight/772503/62 "2016-11-21T15:22:29Z")
> [@Waymore](#): > > How do you “know” the above? Because white supremacists don’t call themselves white equalists. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2016, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-nationalism-crawls-out-of-the-shadows-into-the-spotlight/772503/63 "2016-11-21T15:33:59Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > No, it’s just telling it like it is. > > I could easily accuse you of being a doe-eyed idealist for thinking this thing is more than a Facebook fad. But I won’t do that. … You could, but my language does not support that. Your use of a cynical expression did betray you. BTW, _telling it like it is_ and being cynical are not mutually exclusive. If you **are** a cynic, own it. My closest friend is a bitter cynic, and I adore him (not for that, but he has other qualities I love). In fact (if you’re interested in facts), the following closely represents my pov. > [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > …Likely confusion over whom the pin is supposed to speak to is another reason I question the point of it. If you wore one without intending to send a message to blacks (or gays, or women)–only muslims and Mexicans–how in the hell would I know that? I might assume things about your politics that I shouldn’t. I’ve never been one to wear ribbons or those plastic bracelets. I had many friends who died of aids in the early 90s (six alone who were guests at my wedding), but I never wore the red ribbon. I was diagnosed with breast cancer last year, but don’t wear the pink ribbon or buy any pink-themed products. I’m careful and thoughtful about how I present myself. Who’s doe-eyed now? (Also, not on Facebook.) ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2016, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-nationalism-crawls-out-of-the-shadows-into-the-spotlight/772503/64 "2016-11-21T16:38:01Z")
I’ve met very few real dyed-to-the-bone cynics in my time. Never met even one who didn’t think of himself as a hard-nosed realist. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2016, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-nationalism-crawls-out-of-the-shadows-into-the-spotlight/772503/65 "2016-11-21T16:41:56Z")
ThelmaLou, I have no problem owning my cynicism in those areas where I am cynical. I am just not sentimental. Symbols dont mean anything to me. You mention cancer ribbons. To me, the safety pin thing is worse. At least you have to make a donation to get a ribbon or bracelet. Safety pins are practically free. With a cancer ribbon, no one is proclaiming themselves a cancer fighter. Safety pin wearers are proclaiming themselves protectors of the persecuted. Don’t you think that’s a little rich? IMHO, the cynic is the one who thinks good people need to distinguish themselves with a symbol to provide hope to the persecuted. The idealist is the one who thinks the persecuted already know they aren’t alone, that not everyone is against them, and that people will rally behind them if they shout loud enough. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2016, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-nationalism-crawls-out-of-the-shadows-into-the-spotlight/772503/66 "2016-11-21T16:53:33Z")
The cynic does not recognize that there is any such thing as good people, only people who behave when somebody is looking. And often what is taken for cynicism is nothing but injured humanity, donning an extra layer of armor to lessen the pain of giving a shit. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2016, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-nationalism-crawls-out-of-the-shadows-into-the-spotlight/772503/67 "2016-11-21T16:56:52Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > ThelmaLou, I have no problem owning my cynicism in those areas where I am cynical. > > I am just not sentimental. Symbols dont mean anything to me. You mention cancer ribbons. To me, the safety pin thing is worse. At least you have to make a donation to get a ribbon or bracelet. Safety pins are practically free. With a cancer ribbon, no one is proclaiming themselves a cancer fighter. Safety pin wearers are proclaiming themselves protectors of the persecuted. Don’t you think that’s a little rich? > > IMHO, the cynic is the one who thinks good people need to distinguish themselves with a symbol to provide hope to the persecuted. The idealist is the one who thinks the persecuted already know they aren’t alone, that not everyone is against them, and that people will rally behind them if they shout loud enough. I agree with you. I like your definition of an idealist. Sadly, I’m not sure the persecuted know they’re not alone-- how \*\*would \*\*they know? And even if they know that \*everyone \*is not against them, they can still be in danger. Will people rally behind them if they shout loud enough? My cynical friend says that at heart he is a romantic. I asked him to define romantic, and he said, “A romantic is someone who seeks ideal states.” I said, “You can’t have ideal states, only ideal moments.” I’d like to have a conversation about what “sentimental” means. I consider myself very sentimental, but I don’t wear message pins or t-shirts or have bumper stickers on my car. To me being sentimental is not related to those behaviors. > [@elucidator](#): > > The cynic does not recognize that there is any such thing as good people, only people who behave when somebody is looking. And often what is taken for cynicism is nothing but injured humanity, donning an extra layer of armor to lessen the pain of giving a shit. I agree with this, too. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2016, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-nationalism-crawls-out-of-the-shadows-into-the-spotlight/772503/68 "2016-11-21T17:03:42Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > The cynic does not recognize that there is any such thing as good people, only people who behave when somebody is looking. And often what is taken for cynicism is nothing but injured humanity, donning an extra layer of armor to lessen the pain of giving a shit. If you think wearing a safety pin will make folks less cynical and heal their injured humanity, go on and wear it. But I hope your activism doesn’t stop there. Because if it does, you will only increase people’s cynicism and exacerbate the pain of their injured humanity. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2016, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-nationalism-crawls-out-of-the-shadows-into-the-spotlight/772503/69 "2016-11-21T17:14:06Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > If you think wearing a safety pin will make folks less cynical and heal their injured humanity, go on and wear it. > > But I hope your activism doesn’t stop there. Because if it does, you will only increase people’s cynicism and exacerbate the pain of their injured humanity. Again I agree with you, but I also think you extrapolated beyond what \*\*elucidator \*\*said or even implied, i.e., that wearing a pin will make folks less cynical. But you are certainly correct. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2016, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-nationalism-crawls-out-of-the-shadows-into-the-spotlight/772503/70 "2016-11-21T17:30:54Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > If you think wearing a safety pin will make folks less cynical and heal their injured humanity, go on and wear it… Been working on this stuff for about fifty years. But its good to know I have your approval. A load off my mind, to be sure. Could use some help, if you’ve nothing better to do. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2016, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-nationalism-crawls-out-of-the-shadows-into-the-spotlight/772503/71 "2016-11-21T17:36:09Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > I agree with you. I like your definition of an idealist. Sadly, I’m not sure the persecuted know they’re not alone-- how \*\*would \*\*they know? And even if they know that \*everyone \*is not against them, they can still be in danger. Will people rally behind them if they shout loud enough? The persecuted have TV’s. They have internet. They are on social media. They have eyes and ears. If people are protesting in the streets,they will see it and remember. Because protesting in the cold and rain isn’t easy. But wearing a pin that signifies you’ve appointed yourself an ally is very easy to do. [Quote] My cynical friend says that at heart he is a romantic. I asked him to define romantic, and he said, “A romantic is someone who seeks ideal states.” I said, "You can’t have ideal states, only ideal moments.[/quote] My ideal moment is everyone being brave enough to rise up against the oppressive machine and smash it to bits. My ideal moment is not everyone walking around feeling virtuous because they are wearing a pin. > [@](#): > > I’d like to have a conversation about what “sentimental” means. It means you don’t have to give me a shiny ring to show you love me. I would much prefer you show your love by exhibiting loving behaviors. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2016, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-nationalism-crawls-out-of-the-shadows-into-the-spotlight/772503/72 "2016-11-21T17:37:54Z")
OK, so you won’t follow. Are you going to lead? Or, at the very least, get out of the way? ---
**Author:** ![toocrazy2yoo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@toocrazy2yoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/toocrazy2yoo)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2016, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-nationalism-crawls-out-of-the-shadows-into-the-spotlight/772503/73 "2016-11-21T17:38:29Z")
Never saw such a butt-hurt collection of Liberals, at least, that weren’t out on the streets doing violence on the streets in Liberal cities. Gee, go to a Conservative City and try that game out. Easy to riot in a city that celebrates your destruction. Try that act where they don’t celebrate Liberal violence and depravity. Well, like the Muslim Patriarchy, feminists don’t like to riot where their targets will fight back. Although, I think feminists like the idea of being taken over by a Muslim (and darker) patriarchal rape culture… ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2016, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-nationalism-crawls-out-of-the-shadows-into-the-spotlight/772503/74 "2016-11-21T17:48:43Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > OK, so you won’t follow. Are you going to lead? Or, at the very least, get out of the way? How am I in your way? Why are you equating not liking a superficial gesture with “getting in the way”? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2016, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-nationalism-crawls-out-of-the-shadows-into-the-spotlight/772503/75 "2016-11-21T17:52:25Z")
Ever supported the right cause when it was very unpopular? Remember the day when you noticed that other people where expressing their support, how good that felt? If you haven’t, then you really have no idea what I’m talking about. Start with the guy you shave. Done with him, you got time to get around to me. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2016, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-nationalism-crawls-out-of-the-shadows-into-the-spotlight/772503/76 "2016-11-21T17:55:43Z")
> [@toocrazy2yoo](#): > > Never saw such a butt-hurt collection of Liberals, at least, that weren’t out on the streets doing violence on the streets in Liberal cities. Gee, go to a Conservative City and try that game out. Easy to riot in a city that celebrates your destruction. Try that act where they don’t celebrate Liberal violence and depravity. Well, like the Muslim Patriarchy, feminists don’t like to riot where their targets will fight back. Although, I think feminists like the idea of being taken over by a Muslim (and darker) patriarchal rape culture… Please give me a list of conservative cities. Most \*Texas \*cities voted for Clinton–in my own, she had a larger margin of votes than Obama did. (Too bad about Fort Worth.) So, the topic of this thread is White Nationalism;[A small group of these guys met in DC](http://www.npr.org/2016/11/20/502719871/energized-by-trumps-win-white-nationalists-gather-to-change-the-world)last weekend. Richard Spencer is head of the National Policy Institute (NPI) > [@](#): > > Spencer told journalists that he doesn’t believe Trump himself is alt-right, the term he coined that’s come to embody white supremacist, anti-Semitic and sexist ideas. But it was clear that his surprise election has given the once fringe movement a jolt, and on Saturday they were eager to take a victory lap. Spencer called Trump’s campaign “the first step towards identity politics in the United States.” > > One of their chief policy proposals they hope to push through is a 50-year immigration freeze, with a preference given to European immigrants coming into the U.S. Spencer told NPR’s Kelly McEvers in an interview Thursday that their ultimate goal was “a safe space effectively for Europeans,” arguing for a return to the white origins of the country and protecting the white race. These guys (and they appear to be overwhelmingly male) _really_ need to brush up on their American history. > [@](#): > > Evan Thomas of Michigan said that alt-right in a way was a misnomer, and he preferred the moniker “identitarian.” He said that could encompass all sorts of people — as long as they were white. > > “Identitarianism speaks to an understanding that, by nature, man is a creature of tribe,” Thomas said. > > And while Trump had certainly energized white voters, he cautioned that unless immigration of any kind were ceased, Trump’s reelection in 2020 would be an uphill battle. > > “He’s got to act very tough, very quickly to reverse the demographic decline of European-Americans very swiftly. The coalition that brought him to the White House, he’s got to keep that going and strengthen it, otherwise he will be a one-term president,” Thomas said. I fear they are in for a big disappointment. But most of their lives have made disappointment a constant companion. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2016, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-nationalism-crawls-out-of-the-shadows-into-the-spotlight/772503/77 "2016-11-21T18:03:56Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > If you think wearing a safety pin will make folks less cynical and heal their injured humanity, go on and wear it. > > But I hope your activism doesn’t stop there. Because if it does, you will only increase people’s cynicism and exacerbate the pain of their injured humanity. I agree that if wearing a safety pin stopped there, it would be an empty gesture. But right now, it’s the appropriate action. White racists are running around proclaiming that it’s their time. They’re spray painting swastikas on walls and posting their nonsense online. People who oppose racism need to respond. Wearing a safety pin is an anti-racist equivalent of putting a swastika on the wall. It’s a way of telling the racists that they don’t have the public support they imagine they have. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2016, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-nationalism-crawls-out-of-the-shadows-into-the-spotlight/772503/78 "2016-11-21T18:03:57Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Ever supported the right cause when it was very unpopular? Remember the day when you noticed that other people where expressing their support, how good that felt? If you haven’t, then you really have no idea what I’m talking about. > > Start with the guy you shave. Done with him, you got time to get around to me. So you dont get that feel-good feeling when you hang out here and amongst friends and family? You have to have constant reminders in the form of tiny metallic devices that you aren’t the only one who is liberal? Even though most of the popular vote went to Hillary, you are that starved for validation? I dont understand that at all. Frankly, I dont want to. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2016, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-nationalism-crawls-out-of-the-shadows-into-the-spotlight/772503/79 "2016-11-21T18:05:22Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > …Frankly, I dont want to. Just so. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2016, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-nationalism-crawls-out-of-the-shadows-into-the-spotlight/772503/80 "2016-11-21T18:16:52Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > Why not re-read the original post I was responding to so that you can understand the context of mine instead of reacting to every comment you see? EP’s post was dripping with smug sarcasm, as if to suggest that I’m taking the position of some backwards hillbilly. In fact I very much support and defend LGBT rights – that wasn’t an issue and wasn’t my point. My point is, understanding goes two ways. I’ll make an effort to try to understand someone but don’t act like a snit (like the barista did) just because I refer to someone as a ‘he’ based on obvious anatomy rather than your preferred label. That’s one example. Academia is far worse and loaded with social landmines as one poster put it. > > Now, I’m not saying that the main reason Hillary Clinton lost is because Caitlyn Jenner decided to come out of the closet, or that it was because of an overreaction to political correctness. What I will say is that when you start taking other factors into consideration I can understand how a large number of white voters feel ignored by both parties, but we’re talking about why the democratic party lost and why it keeps losing, so I’m aiming my lens and focus there. > > Bernie Sanders said it quite well I thought: it’s a shame that his party feels uncomfortable talking to white working class voters because it should be pretty easy to unify people in this country according to economics. I don’t deny that republicans have worked overtime to divide the country with shameless race baiting but democrats have also over-emphasized identity politics. Democrats visit Las Vegas and talk about pathways to citizenship but almost completely ignore suburban and small town Wisconsin, Michigan, and Pennsylvania. These are people who grew up here, played by the rules, and are suffering just as much as anyone else. When people see that, it’s not hard to understand why they feel jilted and why they question the value of immigration and diversity. > > I’m just getting to the tip of the iceberg. That’s one issue of many. There’s a lot going on and you seem to be focused on liberals failure to empathize sufficiently with rural whites as your reason for it. I don’t see that at all. It’s just a big world and people don’t always come to your town and tell you you’re OK and they’re going to help you a lot. And when they do they are lying. How does our electorate not know that by now? They think it’s a game you play every 4 years that has no consequences except to their tiny reality TV set. This is a failure of our society and of the media and our citizens as well. Pointing out things about liberals to lecture them is not OK if it’s just a figleaf over other players and issues. I am not so worried in the long run about losing elections over this shit. I’m worried about looking at that orange mug for 4 years and being nauseous. I think that the Dems need to push for abandonment of the electoral college though. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-nationalism-crawls-out-of-the-shadows-into-the-spotlight/772503.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-nationalism-crawls-out-of-the-shadows-into-the-spotlight/772503.md?page=5)