# White Nationalism, Part II **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 23, 2002, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-nationalism-part-ii/133522 "2002-10-23T14:18:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Sionnach](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/76d3ee/32.png) [@Sionnach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sionnach)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2002, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-nationalism-part-ii/133522/141 "2002-10-25T22:35:48Z")
> [@](#): > > You’re too late. They’re already here. So, you’re happy to let them all stay, right? They are not in every city/county/town now. They are not in every province. There are still some areas that are white, but if you guys have your way, there won’t be in the future. The heavily “Multicultural” areas can stay that way IMO. Have your ethnic strife and high taxes. I think communities that _don’t want it_ shouldn’t have it forced upon them. Anti-immigration groups are on a big rise in Europe. Most white Americans want immigration to stop or be drastically halted. Of course, liberal elites aren’t respecting their wishes. Get used to people getting a little angry about that 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![bdgr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a87d85/32.png) [@bdgr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bdgr)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2002, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-nationalism-part-ii/133522/142 "2002-10-25T22:37:42Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by minty green \* > \*\*We don’t take kindly to idiots in Texas. That’s why we keep having to exile them to D.C. \*\* That made my day, Minty…Thanks… ---
**Author:** ![Ring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Ring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ring)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2002, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-nationalism-part-ii/133522/143 "2002-10-25T22:41:07Z")
If this site can be believed it seems like the majority of Americans agree with Sionnach on the subject of immigration. > [@](#): > > **Question:** “Do you think immigration strengthens or weakens the American character?” > > **Response:** By a margin of about three to two among 2,004 respondents, most said “weakens.” There was no statistically significant difference between males and females, or whites and blacks supporting this view. But immigrants who responded disagreed. They thought they “strengthen” the U.S. by a margin of about 13 to seven.(Source: Wall Street Journal, March 5, 1998) > [@](#): > > **NPG/Roper, January 1996** > > 83 percent favor a lower level of immigration.70 percent favor a level of immigration below 300,000 a year (72 percent of Democrats, 70 percent of Republicans, 73 percent of Blacks and 52 percent of English-speaking Hispanics).54 percent favor a level of immigration below 100,000 a year. > [@](#): > > **Hispanic USA Research Group survey of Hispanic Americans, June 1993** > > 89 percent strongly support an immediate time-out on immigration.74 percent agree fewer immigrants should be allowed and support stronger restrictions. > [@](#): > > **Time/CNN, September 1993** > > 80 percent consider it important that the federal government track down illegal aliens living here.73 percent think the United States should strictly limit immigration.70 percent favor a border crossing fee.65 percent favor spending more to tighten border security between the U.S. It would most certainly seem that all these people can’t be WNists, especially, I would think, the blacks and Hispanics. [http://www.projectusa.org/immigration-views.html](http://www.projectusa.org/immigration-views.html) ---
**Author:** ![Sionnach](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/76d3ee/32.png) [@Sionnach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sionnach)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2002, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-nationalism-part-ii/133522/144 "2002-10-25T22:47:27Z")
Why don’t the multicultural elites and liberals respect the wishes of the majority of the people? ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2002, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-nationalism-part-ii/133522/145 "2002-10-25T22:48:59Z")
> [@](#): > > The topic of “superiority” of western civilization is a red herring by people who try to claim that I want to be “supreme” over everyone else, which is why I don’t want to bother getting into arguements between Western Civ vs Eastern Civ, etc. I think both have worthy attributes, but I prefer the West. If the West is flooded with people from vastly different cultures, it will no longer be Western Civilization. but you’re ignoring the question, _Why_ do you prefer the West? If other cultures have “worthy attibutes” then why the hubbub about letting people from those countries come over and work? ---
**Author:** ![Ring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Ring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ring)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2002, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-nationalism-part-ii/133522/146 "2002-10-25T22:51:46Z")
If this site can be believed it seems like the majority of Americans agree with Sionnach on the subject of immigration. > [@](#): > > **Question:** “Do you think immigration strengthens or weakens the American character?” > > **Response:** By a margin of about three to two among 2,004 respondents, most said “weakens.” There was no statistically significant difference between males and females, or whites and blacks supporting this view. But immigrants who responded disagreed. They thought they “strengthen” the U.S. by a margin of about 13 to seven.(Source: Wall Street Journal, March 5, 1998) > [@](#): > > **NPG/Roper, January 1996** > > 83 percent favor a lower level of immigration.70 percent favor a level of immigration below 300,000 a year (72 percent of Democrats, 70 percent of Republicans, 73 percent of Blacks and 52 percent of English-speaking Hispanics).54 percent favor a level of immigration below 100,000 a year. > [@](#): > > **Hispanic USA Research Group survey of Hispanic Americans, June 1993** > > 89 percent strongly support an immediate time-out on immigration.74 percent agree fewer immigrants should be allowed and support stronger restrictions. > [@](#): > > **Time/CNN, September 1993** > > 80 percent consider it important that the federal government track down illegal aliens living here.73 percent think the United States should strictly limit immigration.70 percent favor a border crossing fee.65 percent favor spending more to tighten border security between the U.S. It would most certainly seem that all these people can’t be WNists, especially, I would think, the blacks and Hispanics. [http://www.projectusa.org/immigration-views.html](http://www.projectusa.org/immigration-views.html) ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2002, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-nationalism-part-ii/133522/147 "2002-10-25T22:56:12Z")
Moreover, **Sionnach** , shouldn’t you leave Canada, a country that, by your rules, belongs to the First Nations, and move back to your European homeland? I suggest Serbia; they seem to share your point of view. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2002, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-nationalism-part-ii/133522/148 "2002-10-25T23:04:11Z")
**Ring** , your cites reflect American uncertainty about the speed and degree of immigration; there can certainly be debate on that. **Sionnach** wants to eliminate immigration and kick all non-white people out of North America, even people who’ve been here for generations. Big freakin’ difference, methinks. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2002, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-nationalism-part-ii/133522/149 "2002-10-25T23:08:43Z")
**gobear** , to be fair, not all Serbians are like that. ---
**Author:** ![Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/50afbb/32.png) [@Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duck_Duck_Goose)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2002, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-nationalism-part-ii/133522/150 "2002-10-25T23:10:02Z")
Golly. They do come thick and fast, don’t they? > [@](#): > > Before the rise of mestizo gangs, white boys never grouped up in that way. Even afterward, they never did it to nearly the same extent as the mestizos. White gangs were absent in school, while mestizo gangs and wanna-be gangs were all over the place. Yeah, right, there had never been an all-white gang in American schools, ever, until the Browns and Blacks came to America and showed the White Boys how to do it. Aw, gimme a break, Sionnach, that’s absolutely _pathetic_. :rolleyes: > [@](#): > > I believe in the return to a loose confederacy of independent states who can democratically make their own laws regarding issues like immigration and what is taught in schools while only paying federal taxes for a common military defense. If a state wants to secede and form their own nation, I believe in that right. Is this “evil”? No, but like Minty said, it’s hopelessly old-fashioned. You’re talking about what amounts to a lot of separate little countries all paying taxes into a sort of NATO kitty for defense against “Your Choice” of Evil Bad Guys (one wonders what would happen if one of the Separate Little Countries decided to declare war on another one of the Separate Little Countries–would Country #1 be entitled to a refund on their contribution to the Defense Fund?), but even Europe is going the way of consolidation. Wake up and smell the 21st Century coffee, dearie. > [@](#): > > I thought the point of democracy was rule by the people. What’s the point of this if they aren’t allowed to try and change the laws of their nation to support their interests as natives of that country? Okay, that’s actually fine by me, because you’re right, this is a democracy. So if you and your White Supremacist friends can persuade at least 51% of the American people (or Canadian people) to vote “yes” on a law that sends all the Jews back to Israel and all the Blacks back to Africa and all the Browns back to Mexico and all the Yellows back to Asia, then I’d be the first to shout, “Hooray for Democracy!” and abide by the wishes of the majority. But guess what? It ain’t gonna happen. > [@](#): > > Chinese already have a big land mass to live on. So do Africans and mestizos. Why must they occupy every inch of north american and european territory and take control of our governments as well? This is just stupid. Chinese, Africans, and “mestizos” don’t “occupy every inch of North American and European territory”, nor do they control the governments in either places. I mean, come on. :rolleyes: You’re managing to sound shrill and clueless, all at the same time. Just pointless hyperbole. > [@](#): > > I don’t want to be supreme over anyone else. Bullshit. If you truly believed you weren’t superior to all the Jews and Blacks and Browns and Yellows, then that would be the same thing as admitting that they were your EQUALS, and if they were your equals, you wouldn’t be whining so loudly about “them” taking over your country. > [@](#): > > The US can break laws with impunity because she has might. Oh please. Cite? That means, post a link that shows exactly what international laws the United States has broken with impunity. > [@](#): > > Eastern Civ, etc. I think both have worthy attributes, but I prefer the West. You think Eastern Civilization has worthy attributes–but only as long as it’s taking place in Asia, and not in your back yard? Riiiiight…Um, you don’t see anything a teensy bit…_hypocritical_…about that? > [@](#): > > I support trade and free flow of ideas As long as those ideas agree with your own. You certainly don’t support the free flow of ideas like “multiculturalism” or “free immigration”. As a matter of fact, the only “free flow of ideas” I see that you do support are the ideas that say that all those “different” people shouldn’t be allowed into your country. > [@](#): > > You seem to think that the only impact of immigration is a mix of restaurants and “harmless ideas”, without thinking of the importance of demographics and clashes between extremely different cultures. See? You’re not open to the free flow of the idea that two cultures could possibly meet without clashing. You’re absolutely convinced that every time two different cultures meet, they MUST clash. > [@](#): > > Do you think Germany will resemble Germany at all if it were majority Fundamentalist Muslim? I don’t think so. I think Germany would be a Muslim country if that happened, not a Western Christian one. See? You’re not open to the free flow of the idea that allowing Muslims into Germany might be a good thing. You’re absolutely convinced that allowing Muslims into Germany is a bad thing, that “German culture” would be “flooded”, so you don’t even wanna discuss the possibility that it might not. Or, God forbid, that a new and exciting hybrid culture might result, part Muslim, part German. Nope, you’re not open to the free flow of THAT idea at all. > [@](#): > > . My ideology fetches it’s meat and bones from Death of the West, The Bible, My Awakening, Culture of Critique, and various articles by writers like Sobran and American Renaissance. Okay, let’s take a look at your ideology. [ul][li]The Bible. I think we’re all familiar with that, but I will ask–what part of the Bible do you follow? What “flavor” of Christianity do you follow? In what way are you using the Bible as “ideology”? You’re certainly not using these parts of the Bible as ideology: [Luke 6:29](http://bible.gospelcom.net/cgi-bin/bible?passage=LUKE+6:29&language=english&version=NIV&showfn=on&showxref=on), [Matthew 7:12](http://bible.gospelcom.net/cgi-bin/bible?passage=matthew+7%3A12&NIV_version=yes&language=english), [Galatians 3:28.](http://bible.gospelcom.net/cgi-bin/bible?passage=GAL+3:28&language=english&version=NIV&showfn=on&showxref=on)[/li][li]Death of the West. I’m assuming you mean the book by Pat Buchanan. Full title is _The Death of the West: How Dying Populations and Immigrant Invasions Imperil Our Country and Civilization_. He’s a former White House staffer, columnist, and conservative pundit. [Short bio.](http://www.townhall.com/spotlights/archive/8-28-95/buchbio.html)[/li][li] My Awakening. I’m assuming you mean David Duke’s book. David Duke is a notorious racist, so notorious, in fact, that I prefer not to link to his web page. Anybody who wants to read selections from his magnum opus can Google it.[/li][li]Culture of Critique. I’m assuming you mean Kevin McDonald’s [book](http://www.noontidepress.com/catalog/0517.html). Kevin McDonald is a Jewish Conspiracy Theorist.[/li][li]Sobran. I’m not familiar with him, [http://www.sobran.com/](http://www.sobran.com/) but I’m guessing he’s the source of the “liberal media conspiracy” stripe in your personal ideology rainbow.[/li][li]American Renaissance. I’m not familiar with them, either, but it’s apparently a white supremacist/anti-immigration website. [http://www.amren.com/[/li][/ul]Okay](http://www.amren.com/%5B/li%5D%5B/ul%5DOkay), so this is where you get your ideology from–a lot of racists, conspiracy theorists, and pundits. And you don’t see anything a trifle…_lopsided_…about this? Would anyone like to suggest an easy reading list for Sionnach, to broaden her horizons a little? ---
**Author:** ![Darwins\_Finch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darwins_finch/32/20304_2.png) [@Darwins\_Finch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darwins_Finch)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2002, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-nationalism-part-ii/133522/151 "2002-10-25T23:11:28Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Sionnach \* > \*\*This is not true. If white communities could set their own laws to not allow floods of immigration, there would not be anyone to kill and exile. It’s multiculturalists who want to force their ways on every white community in the world. I would never go to a neighborhood in Japan/Mexico/Africa and demand they let me move there. \*\* You apparently missed my last post. All that hate and rage isn’t gonna just evaporate. You’d descend on one another like jackals if you ever got your own nation. Gotta have _someone_ to blame when it all falls apart, after all. ---
**Author:** ![Sparc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/65b543/32.png) [@Sparc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sparc)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2002, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-nationalism-part-ii/133522/152 "2002-10-25T23:11:44Z")
**Sionnach** , as I have said I won’t debate you ‘facts’. I have wished you luck and well being despite that I disagree with you. Maybe you should just leave it at that. For anyone else that might wonder why I use the term neo-Nazi I shall clarify (I think most of you know this already, but I feel compelled to do this for the sake of the thread’s sanity – as if there was any left). As we all know Nazism sprang out of the ideology of a certain Mr. Hitler with friends. They grabbed a bunch of ideas from Fascism, Nationalism, eugenics and Leninism. They stitched it all together into one of the most bizarre and lethal concoctions of ideas so far in human history. Due to the complete confusion of race, national ethnicity and territorial nationality Nazism is impossible to rip loose from Germany in the second quarter of the 20th century. Yet some of the ideas have been taken up by the Racial Nationalist movements like the White Nationalist movement, or a few Arab Islamist Extremist cults and transposed onto other cultures. These are the main points that make them neo-Nazis: [ol][li]Strongly anti-Semitic[/li] [li]Equation of Communism with Jewry[/li] [li]Equation of internationalism and Jewry[/li] [li]Belief in the Zionist conspiracy[/li] [li]Equation of nationality, race and territoriality (vague and confused, but still)[/li] [li]Equation of race and culture[/li] [li]Belief in Lebensraum – the idea that the race needs a certain amount of space to exist and prosper and that this space is finite in terms of acreage _and_ that this space is threatened by invasion from other races.[/li] [li]A classification of the human species into races - although they can’t even agree amongst them what that means - the only thing they are all certain of is that the evil Jew is the vilest of races since this little marauder can’t be clearly discerned from the whites and the Arabs and supposedly contaminates the races from the inside.[/li] [li]Belief in a sort of strange racial federalism where one race will exist in multiple semi-autonomous states that are united into something greater through their common racial purity[/ol][/li] The most common attempt by the White Nationalists to get away from the neo-Nazi label involves the “but we are not oriented towards a strong state like the NSDAP was, so we can’t be.” In fact nor was the NSDAP, Hitler’s domestic policy turned out very statist while it lasted, but the outspoken goal was as listed above. The end state of things was to be a national union cohesively held together by its racial purity where the ‘natural laws’ of racial harmony would negate the need of politics. For that purpose they equated the race with the party and the party with the state. The whole question as to what to do with all those pesky other people that you have to move around in order to achieve Lebensraum was never very clearly addressed in the written (enslavement, deportation and so on were all brought up, but it’s a jumble of ideas that never solidifies into anything), this is especially true as pertains the Jews, but we do know what the Final Solution ended up to be in Hitler’s case. It is very hard to see how any implementation of these ideas would lead in any other direction. As we have seen the specimens that represent the ideology in this thread don’t have very satisfying answers to this question either. It’s all very confusing - about as confusing as Sionnach’s and Halogen’s argumentation. Sadly the clear parts of the whole thing have some extremely adverse effects on all of our basic human rights. As I said, I know that most of you knew all that, but it needed noting here I felt. Sparc ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2002, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-nationalism-part-ii/133522/153 "2002-10-25T23:11:55Z")
> [@](#): > > gobear, to be fair, not all Serbians are like that. And not all Germans were Nazis, but enough of them were. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2002, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-nationalism-part-ii/133522/154 "2002-10-25T23:43:28Z")
**Sionnach:** _I think communities that don’t want it shouldn’t have it forced upon them. Anti-immigration groups are on a big rise in Europe. Most white Americans want immigration to stop or be drastically halted._ So, **Sionnach** , I take it that you support the resistance of the white communities in nineteenth-century America to the immigration of those “culturally inferior” “white negroes”, “almost as remote from [white people] in temperament and constitution as the Chinese”, “ignorant, cruel, brutal, and depraved”—namely, the [Irish](http://migration.ucc.ie/conferences%20and%20publications/conferences/scattering/conferencepapers/Prof.%20Jay%20P.%20Dolan.htm)? C’mon, let’s hear you stand up for the right of those white people to despise and exclude the Irish, whom they considered to be an inferior race, just as you claim a right to despise and exclude descendants of Asian and African and Native American peoples. Your ancestors had some nerve coming here where they weren’t wanted, didn’t they? After all, they already had Ireland to live in, why should they have North America too? ---
**Author:** ![Daoloth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/82dd89/32.png) [@Daoloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Daoloth)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2002, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-nationalism-part-ii/133522/155 "2002-10-25T23:57:27Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Sionnach \* > \*\* > Before the rise of mestizo gangs, white boys never grouped up in that way. \*\* That is complete ahistorical bullshit. Take a look into 1840’s and 1850’s New England, and witness such violent white gangs as the Nativists, Dead Rabbits, the Bowery Boys, the Whyos, the Midnight Terrors, the Daybreak Boys, the Plug Uglies, the Yellow Henry Gang, the Eastmans, etc. The first gangs in the US were whites. They committed murder, rape, arson, and robbery, amongst other savage crimes. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2002, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-nationalism-part-ii/133522/156 "2002-10-26T00:00:16Z")
Don’t forget the Fenians, or the Mafia itself! Also, if you claim to get your ideology from the Bible…well, considering what it says about the Jews and Israel… ---
**Author:** ![minty\_green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2002, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-nationalism-part-ii/133522/157 "2002-10-26T00:02:43Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Sionnach \* > They are not in every city/county/town now. Find me a county in America that is 100% white. Go on, I dare ya. > [@](#): > > They are not in every province. Find me a province in Canada that is 100% white. Go on, you liar, I dare ya. But you won’t, of course. You can’t. Just like when you lied through your lying little teeth a while back when you said people here were saying Western Civilization was worthless, then refused to back up your lies when I called you on them. So, I repeat: What are you going to do with the non-white people who are in your fantasy territory? ---
**Author:** ![Sionnach](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/76d3ee/32.png) [@Sionnach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sionnach)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2002, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-nationalism-part-ii/133522/158 "2002-10-26T00:24:24Z")
> [@](#): > > Yeah, right, there had never been an all-white gang in American schools, ever, until the Browns and Blacks came to America and showed the White Boys how to do it. I didn’t say that. I said in the particular places where I lived, the white boys didn’t form violent gangs until the mestizos came and then some white boys formed gangs to counter them. I know most big cities had some type of gang activity, but I’m talking about outskirt towns and suburban areas that were flooded with immigration and became more violent. > [@](#): > > No, but like Minty said, it’s hopelessly old-fashioned. You’re talking about what amounts to a lot of separate little countries all paying taxes into a sort of NATO kitty for defense against “Your Choice” of Evil Bad Guys (one wonders what would happen if one of the Separate Little Countries decided to declare war on another one of the Separate Little Countries–would Country #1 be entitled to a refund on their contribution to the Defense Fund?), but even Europe is going the way of consolidation. Wake up and smell the 21st Century coffee, dearie. Is everything new necessarily good? Is “consolidation” and one-world government necessarily good just because the world is moving that way? Are people not allowed to think that the world is moving in the _wrong_ direction? > [@](#): > > Okay, that’s actually fine by me, because you’re right, this is a democracy. So if you and your White Supremacist friends can persuade at least 51% of the American people (or Canadian people) to vote “yes” on a law that sends all the Jews back to Israel and all the Blacks back to Africa and all the Browns back to Mexico and all the Yellows back to Asia, then I’d be the first to shout, “Hooray for Democracy!” and abide by the wishes of the majority. > > But guess what? It ain’t gonna happen. Most Americans don’t want more immigration floods, but neither party is listening. If the federal government doesn’t speak for most people, then I think the government should be decentralized in favor of more power for local governments. If local governments could have power over who immigrates to their community, I think you’d find a lot of places putting restrictions up. > [@](#): > > This is just stupid. Chinese, Africans, and “mestizos” don’t “occupy every inch of North American and European territory”, nor do they control the governments in either places. I mean, come on. You’re managing to sound shrill and clueless, all at the same time. Just pointless hyperbole. Demographically, just about every western nation will be have white minorities in the future. As long as you refuse to look at trends for the future, you’re just going to keep telling me that "Oh, but this town is still white… this country is still white… " year after year while more and more come in. > [@](#): > > Bullshit. If you truly believed you weren’t superior to all the Jews and Blacks and Browns and Yellows, then that would be the same thing as admitting that they were your EQUALS, and if they were your equals, you wouldn’t be whining so loudly about “them” taking over your country. I don’t care if they are superior or inferior. They are different and have different cultures. A nation full of competing cultures will fragment. > [@](#): > > Oh please. Cite? That means, post a link that shows exactly what international laws the United States has broken with impunity. Recall the aggression towards Nicaragua? Need I list Israel’s UN violations, which it can get away with because it is backed by Israel? > [@](#): > > You think Eastern Civilization has worthy attributes–but only as long as it’s taking place in Asia, and not in your back yard? Riiiiight…Um, you don’t see anything a teensy bit…hypocritical…about that? Nope, not at all. Just because a civilization might have a few good points, does not mean I want to live in it or be surrounded by it. I don’t hate muslims and might share ideas from their countries and trade products, but I wouldn’t want a Muslim majority in my country making laws. > [@](#): > > As long as those ideas agree with your own. You certainly don’t support the free flow of ideas like “multiculturalism” or “free immigration”. As a matter of fact, the only “free flow of ideas” I see that you do support are the ideas that say that all those “different” people shouldn’t be allowed into your country. Why do I have to want floods of those people into my community to share an idea? The people being flooded into my community won’t be there to “share ideas”. They are there because some businessman wanted cheap physical labor. > [@](#): > > See? You’re not open to the free flow of the idea that two cultures could possibly meet without clashing. You’re absolutely convinced that every time two different cultures meet, they MUST clash. Depending on the degree of difference, they do. > [@](#): > > See? You’re not open to the free flow of the idea that allowing Muslims into Germany might be a good thing. You’re absolutely convinced that allowing Muslims into Germany is a bad thing, that “German culture” would be “flooded”, so you don’t even wanna discuss the possibility that it might not. Or, God forbid, that a new and exciting hybrid culture might result, part Muslim, part German. Nope, you’re not open to the free flow of THAT idea at all. Why can’t Germany remain German? Muslims have multiple other countries. They must have European nations too? This multiculturalism thing is sounding less and less like a love of diversity, and more and more like a love of universal homogeny. No country may retain it’s cultural uniqueness under the new world doctrine. They must all be flooded with so many cultures as to create a type of world-wide mishmash of confusion. Balkans for the entire world. > [@](#): > > Okay, so this is where you get your ideology from–a lot of racists, conspiracy theorists, and pundits. > And you don’t see anything a trifle…lopsided…about this? Would anyone like to suggest an easy reading list for Sionnach, to broaden her horizons a little? I’m sure you get _your_ reading material from all the crap I used to read. > [@](#): > > You apparently missed my last post. All that hate and rage isn’t gonna just evaporate. You’d descend on one another like jackals if you ever got your own nation. Gotta have someone to blame when it all falls apart, after all. I don’t have hate and rage. I just love my own people and culture and don’t want it to be destroyed. What’s wrong with that? All the multiculturalists have more hate and rage towards any white who doesn’t share their agenda than I have for them. Laters, have to take off for a bit 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/50afbb/32.png) [@Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duck_Duck_Goose)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2002, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-nationalism-part-ii/133522/159 "2002-10-26T00:46:40Z")
Heh. This is fun. I’m sitting here playing with the Census Office’s Fact Finder, where you can look up any county in the U.S. and see how many Blacks and Whites and Yellows and Browns they have living there. [http://factfinder.census.gov/servlet/BasicFactsServlet](http://factfinder.census.gov/servlet/BasicFactsServlet) I decided to focus on Maine, since Lewiston came up, and so far every county in Maine, even way up in the boonies, where only the paper company people go, has Blacks and Browns and Yellows. The box on the right-hand side, where it says “Basic Facts”–first you select “Race and Hispanic or Latino”, and then where it says “For the United States”, pull down the bar and click on a “County”. Then you select a state, and it brings up another window that lets you select a county. It’s kind of an odd little arrangement, but once you get used to it, it makes sense. In Alaska, in the West Aleutians Census Area, there are 165 Blacks, 5,465 Latinos (“of any race”), and 1,344 Yellows, including 14 Koreans and 3 Chinese. All hail the American Melting Pot! 😃 > [@](#): > > A nation full of competing cultures will fragment. Not necessarily. See, that’s what I mean about you not being open to the idea that a culture could meld and mesh and turn into something quite different. Oh, but I forgot–you don’t want “different”. You want everything to stay the same. Children often feel that way. > [@](#): > > Recall the aggression towards Nicaragua? Need I list Israel’s UN violations, which it can get away with because it is backed by Israel? Welcome to the Straight Dope Message Board. Here is how it works–you make a statement, I call you on it, I ask you for a cite, this means “Prove it”. So, you now have to go look up some kind of proof that in Nicaragua, the United States was in blatant violation of international law. Your example of Israel’s UN violations is so stunningly irrelevant that it beggars description. We’re talking about American violation of international law here, not Israeli. > [@](#): > > I’m sure you get your reading material from all the crap I used to read. Annnnd…precisely what crap would that have been, dear? :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2002, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-nationalism-part-ii/133522/160 "2002-10-26T00:47:58Z")
So what defines “white culture”. I want some specifics here. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-nationalism-part-ii/133522.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-nationalism-part-ii/133522.md?page=9)