# White Nationalism, Part II **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 23, 2002, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-nationalism-part-ii/133522 "2002-10-23T14:18:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2002, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-nationalism-part-ii/133522/161 "2002-10-26T00:50:15Z")
I’m a little confused here. First **Sionnach** says > [@](#): > > Is everything new necessarily good? Is “consolidation” and one-world government necessarily good just because the world is moving that way? but then she says > [@](#): > > I don’t care if they are superior or inferior. They are different and have different cultures. A nation full of competing cultures will fragment So let me get this straight. The different nations of the world-North Korea, Japan, Iraq, the US, Algeria, France, Serbia, Croatia, and so on are all going to forget their differences and form a one-world government, but varying ethnicities in **one** nation will cause it to fragment. Am I missing something or are these two statements mutually contradictory? ---
**Author:** ![Jojo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ecd19e/32.png) [@Jojo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jojo)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2002, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-nationalism-part-ii/133522/162 "2002-10-26T01:05:00Z")
Just a few points: - the Culture of Critique is horseshit because: 1. It says Jews promote muticulturalism (and other “deviant” practices) because that makes Jews feel safer. Well no shit, Sherlock. Why do you think Jews feel the need to feel safer? Could it be because they have suffered thousands of years of persecution and are now down to only 14 million people? 2. It implies that Jews promote multiculturalism as part of an ongoing campaign ie that all Jews are in on some long term plan ie that there is a Jewish conspiracy - **anyone who believes there is a Jewish conspiracy is a fool**. - You linked me to an [article](http://www.theamericanprowler.org/article.asp?art_id=2002_10_7_23_24_6) by some outfit called American Prowler about a business deal gone wrong. The article concerned a case brought under the Canadian Human Rights Act. Did you read the [actual ruling](http://report.ca/press/ahrccdecision1.html) made by the judges or just the biased article? I only ask because to me (as a trained lawyer, albeit in UK law) the ruling seemed fair. The mention of the Jewish angle seemed superfluous, purely designed to provoke an emotional response of some kind in the reader, it had no relevance as to why the business deal went wrong. - As an obviously intelligent person, don’t you get a bit impatient with the level of debate over on stormforce? - As an obviously intelligent person, don’t you have any other interests apart from neo-nazism? On this board, people who bang on about the same subject all the time are considered One-Trick Ponies and generally get laughed at. For example, in all the time I’ve been here I’ve never once mentioned my own politics. And yet I feel as strongly about my politics as you do yours, it’s just that the subject has never come up and I have more interesting things to talk about. FTR I’m an anarchist (the exact opposite of a “one-world government” type). Imagine the lively controversial discussions I could have about THAT, yet I’ve never once mentioned it. Not because I don’t want to, or I’m ashamed of it, or anything else - just because my mind revolves around many things and it’s never seemed relevant to bring the subject up. Oh, apart from once, when I started a thread about whether we could abolish money and get everything for free instead. ---
**Author:** ![Darwins\_Finch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darwins_finch/32/20304_2.png) [@Darwins\_Finch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darwins_Finch)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2002, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-nationalism-part-ii/133522/163 "2002-10-26T01:44:34Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Sionnach \* > **I don’t have hate and rage. I just love my own people and culture and don’t want it to be destroyed.** a) Who are your “own people”? b) What is your “[own] culture”? c) How is your culture, whatever it is, being destroyed? These are questions which you have been asked _many_ times, and have consistently failed to answer. Do you actually plan to, are do you wish to simply admit that you can’t? And, just to humor me, since you will undoubtedly claim you _have_ answered them, why don’t you just go ahead an summarize your answers for me. Since I’m a brainwashed multiculturalist, and all; it helps to spell these things out. You’ve also failed to acknowledge the former treatment of Irish immigrants. This is important because it shows just how flawed your whole “white culture” concept is. \*\* > [@](#): > > What’s wrong with that? All the multiculturalists have more hate and rage towards any white who doesn’t share their agenda than I have for them.\*\* What’s wrong with that, aside from the fact that it’s just a bunch of vague rhetoric until you address the above questions, is the way you wish to go about “protecting” your culture. As has been noted numerous times, forced deportation, seizure of property, and so on are barbaric, to say the least. You continually claim that you are not a Nazi, neo-Nazi or whatever, yet you wish to tread down that very same path to achieve your “racial purity”. Especially with respect to Jews. Sorry but you can’t deny those accusations, as you’ve made your feelings in those respects _very_ clear many times. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2002, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-nationalism-part-ii/133522/164 "2002-10-26T02:08:59Z")
**Sionnach** , [Could this be you?](http://www.facethejury.com/profile.asp?user_name=Sionnach) You look lovely dear. ---
**Author:** ![Daoloth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/82dd89/32.png) [@Daoloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Daoloth)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2002, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-nationalism-part-ii/133522/165 "2002-10-26T02:35:17Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by grienspace \* > \*\ ***Sionnach** , [Could this be you?](http://www.facethejury.com/profile.asp?user_name=Sionnach) > > You look lovely dear. \*\* Heh, how many married 16 year old’s do you know? ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2002, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-nationalism-part-ii/133522/166 "2002-10-26T02:44:20Z")
Plus, this chick says she’s bisexual. I don’t think it’s the same. ---
**Author:** ![David\_B](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/51bf81/32.png) [@David\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_B)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2002, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-nationalism-part-ii/133522/167 "2002-10-26T02:55:26Z")
And a turn-off is stupidity. So we know it can’t be the same one. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2002, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-nationalism-part-ii/133522/168 "2002-10-26T03:15:05Z")
> [@](#): > > Heh, how many married 16 year old’s do you know? Heh, **Sionnach** claims to be from Maryland which is part of rural Appalachia. I’m not from there, but it is my impression that early marriage of females is not all that uncommon there. Does bisexuality preclude membership in White Nationalism? I believe that there is a conservative Dutch gay politician generally endorsed by **Sionnach** if I remember correctly. And stupidity is entirely objective, particularly if you are stupid. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2002, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-nationalism-part-ii/133522/169 "2002-10-26T03:16:22Z")
Scratch objective for subjective ---
**Author:** ![David\_B](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/51bf81/32.png) [@David\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_B)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2002, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-nationalism-part-ii/133522/170 "2002-10-26T03:30:50Z")
Hey, don’t go ruining my witty remark with logic, dammit! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![minty\_green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2002, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-nationalism-part-ii/133522/171 "2002-10-26T03:34:30Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Guinastasia \* > \*\*So what defines “white culture”. I want some specifics here. \*\* We already went through this, **Guin**. She prefers the term “Western Civilization.” When pressed to define the term, she referred to the Renaissance (presumably the Italian version, as **gobear** pointed out) and Christianity. When it was pointed out that the Renaissance meant entirely different things to different countries, and touched many European countries not in the slightest, and that many cultures she would consider part of Western Civilization had jack shit to do with Christianity, she declined to specify further what it was that served as a common thread that united all the ridiculouslly diverse–often directly antithetical–cultures of Europe for the last couple millenia. That’s probably because, as **gobear** also astutely observed, she’s entirely ignorant of the European culture she claims to be defending. At least, I don’t recall hearing so much as a peep out of her regarding the challenge to discuss three Western writers, painters, or composers and a critical analysis of their work. Defender of Western Civilization, my winterfresh ass. **grienspace:** Even if it was her–which I am sure it is not–it is frowned upon around here to identify one’s fellow Dopers without their express permission. You may want to ask a mod to remove that link. ---
**Author:** ![minty\_green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2002, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-nationalism-part-ii/133522/172 "2002-10-26T03:35:41Z")
Never mind, I see one has already passed through. My bad. ---
**Author:** ![Caffeine.addict](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f475e1/32.png) [@Caffeine.addict](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Caffeine.addict)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2002, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-nationalism-part-ii/133522/173 "2002-10-26T04:11:01Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Duck Duck Goose[i/] > Welcome to the Straight Dope Message Board. Here is how it works–you make a statement, I call you on it, I ask you for a cite, this means “Prove it”. So, you now have to go look up some kind of proof that in Nicaragua, the United States was in blatant violation of international law. Actually, there was a case in the ICJ. [Nicaragua v. US](http://www.gwu.edu/~jaysmith/Nicaragua.html), the ICJ stated that the US did violate international law with regards to supporting the Contras in Nicaragua. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2002, 11:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-nationalism-part-ii/133522/174 "2002-10-26T11:20:50Z")
I would just like to offer my appreciation to those posters who are engaging in point-counterpoint debate for distinguishing your posts from those that are, for all practical purposes, interchangable with posts at the WN board. ---
**Author:** ![Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/50afbb/32.png) [@Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duck_Duck_Goose)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2002, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-nationalism-part-ii/133522/175 "2002-10-26T13:34:10Z")
Thank you, Brujo, but I would have preferred that Sionnach be the one to go look it up. 😃 It’d do her a world of good to have to do some actual research, instead of merely parroting everything she hears various pundits say. BTW, as long as I’m here… Sionnach, so far you haven’t said much about Native Americans. You’ve been ranting about making the Blacks go back to Africa, and the Browns go back to Latin America, and the Yellows go back to Asia, and the Jews go back to Israel–but conspicuous by their absence so far has been any mention of Native Americans. (What color are they, BTW? Are they Reds, or does “Red” mean “Communist”?) Anyway, where would you like them to go? Their ancestors came over from Asia 12,000 years ago, so does that make them Yellows? Or, as seems more likely, do they just not appear on your personal Ugly Immigrant Radar, since they’re for the most part safely tucked away in reservations, and you don’t have to look at them, or read restaurant reviews of their immigrant cooking, or read articles by pundits complaining that White Culture is being “flooded” by Native American culture? But they’re still different, aren’t they? Their culture isn’t the same as White Culture, is it? And their skins are a different color, aren’t they? Shouldn’t they all go back where they came from, too? And if you’re going to require Native Americans to go back to Asia, doesn’t that leave your Caucasians in rather an awkward position? After all, if the Reds got to America 12,000 years ago, and you’re making them leave, but the Caucasians only got here 400 years ago, and you’re letting them stay–seems a tad unfair, don’t it? Although, of course, it would be right in line with racist practices of yore–for example, when the bus was full, it was the Blacks who would be rousted to make room for the Whites who had just gotten on the bus, even though the Blacks may have gotten on first. Also, I’m still waiting to hear your answer to my question regarding exactly how you’re using the Bible as ideology. I’d like to know your personal theology, too–you don’t have to go into detail, just a nod towards “Conservative Protestant”, “Liberal Protestant”, “Catholic”, “Mormon”, “Jehovah’s Witness”, “Seventh Day Adventist”, whatever, etc. Because then I’m gonna want to know how you think God feels about the distinctly uncharitable thoughts you’ve been having towards people who are “different”. [Matthew 25:31-46](http://bible.gospelcom.net/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&passage=Matthew+25%3A31-46&version=NIV) > [@](#): > > "When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his throne in heavenly glory. All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left. > > "Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’ > > "Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’ > > "The King will reply, ‘I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.’ > > "Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’ > > "They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’ > > "He will reply, ‘I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’ > > “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.” The people of Lewiston are doing their bit to “invite the stranger in”, by supporting the Somalis who have come to their city looking for better lives for themselves and their children. What have you done lately for the strangers at your gates? And as long as I have the Bible Gateway open… [Exodus 12:49](http://bible.gospelcom.net/cgi-bin/bible?passage=EXOD+12:49&language=english&version=NIV&showfn=on&showxref=on) “The same law applies to the native-born and to the alien living among you.” [Exodus 23: 9](http://bible.gospelcom.net/cgi-bin/bible?passage=EXOD+23:9&language=english&version=NIV&showfn=on&showxref=on)"Do not oppress an alien; you yourselves know how it feels to be aliens, because you were aliens in Egypt." [Leviticus 19:34](http://bible.gospelcom.net/cgi-bin/bible?passage=LEV+19:34&language=english&version=NIV&showfn=on&showxref=on) The alien living with you must be treated as one of your native-born. Love him as yourself, for you were aliens in Egypt. I am the LORD your God." And last but not least… [Leviticus 25:23](http://bible.gospelcom.net/cgi-bin/bible?passage=LEV+25:23&language=english&version=NIV&showfn=on&showxref=on)" The land must not be sold permanently, because the land is mine and you are but aliens and my tenants." Heh. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![bdgr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a87d85/32.png) [@bdgr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bdgr)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2002, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-nationalism-part-ii/133522/176 "2002-10-26T15:24:10Z")
How about this one > [@](#): > > Romans 10:12 > For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile–the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him. Interestingly enough, some of my good friends who used to be a part of the skinhead movement in Dallas, gave it up because they realized that you cant be a Christian and racist. ---
**Author:** ![Sionnach](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/76d3ee/32.png) [@Sionnach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sionnach)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2002, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-nationalism-part-ii/133522/177 "2002-10-26T17:05:52Z")
> [@](#): > > So, Sionnach, I take it that you support the resistance of the white communities in nineteenth-century America to the immigration of those “culturally inferior” “white negroes”, “almost as remote from [white people] in temperament and constitution as the Chinese”, “ignorant, cruel, brutal, and depraved”—namely, the Irish? > > C’mon, let’s hear you stand up for the right of those white people to despise and exclude the Irish, whom they considered to be an inferior race, just as you claim a right to despise and exclude descendants of Asian and African and Native American peoples. Your ancestors had some nerve coming here where they weren’t wanted, didn’t they? After all, they already had Ireland to live in, why should they have North America too? My ancestors were Russian. The choosing of the name “Sionnach” had something to do with a pet name someone gave me a long time ago, not my ethnicity 🙂 And, no I don’t think the Irish should have been treated badly, but I also believe that such a bad reputation must have sprung from a grain of truth back then. However, Irish had no huge social services to partake of, nor did they have flocks of liberals demanding “multiculturalism”, yet have assimilated completely. Blacks have had decades of help, equality, and tax money… yet are not assimilated besides a minority of them. > [@](#): > > a) Who are your “own people”? > b) What is your “[own] culture”? > c) How is your culture, whatever it is, being destroyed? Culture is what springs from groups of people having the same faith, traditions, and values. When those groups of people are displaced by another group that has a completely different culture, the culture of the first group is radically subverted or disappears. If you flood Scotland with majority Somalis, it will turn into another Somalia and the culture of the Scots will fade away. On a massive scale, if the people in Western nations refuse to have enough children to replace themselves and their countries are flooded by people with very different values and traditions, the West will die out and become expanded territory for China, Mexico, and the Muslims. > [@](#): > > When pressed to define the term, she referred to the Renaissance (presumably the Italian version, as gobear pointed out) and Christianity. > > When it was pointed out that the Renaissance meant entirely different things to different countries, and touched many European countries not in the slightest, and that many cultures she would consider part of Western Civilization had jack shit to do with Christianity, she declined to specify further what it was that served as a common thread that united all the ridiculouslly diverse–often directly antithetical–cultures of Europe for the last couple millenia. > > That’s probably because, as gobear also astutely observed, she’s entirely ignorant of the European culture she claims to be defending. At least, I don’t recall hearing so much as a peep out of her regarding the challenge to discuss three Western writers, painters, or composers and a critical analysis of their work. Defender of Western Civilization, my winterfresh ass. No, I don’t wish to quibble with decontructionists who claim there is no Western Civilization, so I referred to a class you could take. > [@](#): > > Thank you, Brujo, but I would have preferred that Sionnach be the one to go look it up. It’d do her a world of good to have to do some actual research, instead of merely parroting everything she hears various pundits say. Actually, I assumed everyone here knew about it already since this is a left-leaning board, and every leftist I know makes it a personal hobby to delve into every perceived crime by the US. Forgive me for overestimating you. > [@](#): > > Sionnach, so far you haven’t said much about Native Americans. You’ve been ranting about making the Blacks go back to Africa, and the Browns go back to Latin America, and the Yellows go back to Asia, and the Jews go back to Israel–but conspicuous by their absence so far has been any mention of Native Americans. (What color are they, BTW? Are they Reds, or does “Red” mean “Communist”?) Besides the Zionists, I haven’t. If multiculturalists want to have their stinking cesspit “ethniklashistan” nation on some coast, they can in my opinion. I also think that AmerIndians should have their own sovereign nation on some land of their own _without any meddling or welfare from ours_. So far, can anyone give me one good reason why every white community should be flooded with non-whites til whites are a minority? Is it that you guys just believe in diversity for diversity’s sake, or that you think it’s a cute way to “get back at the white bigots”? Most Americans don’t want more immigration floods, but the pretentious liberals choose to not even respect their wishes and condescendingly have the opinion that their wishes should never be respected because “they don’t know what’s good for them”. Violent culture clashes? Cool! German Christians in their own country being dominated by Muslim immigrants in the future? Groovy! > [@](#): > > Or, as seems more likely, do they just not appear on your personal Ugly Immigrant Radar, since they’re for the most part safely tucked away in reservations, and you don’t have to look at them Are you kidding? Indians are _constantly_ loafing around drunk downtown and heckling people for change. My husband avoids them like the plague because they drunkenly demand money and yell at you if you don’t give it to them. I’d love to see these people be forced to live by their own hard work on their own sovereign nation instead of mooching! > [@](#): > > Also, I’m still waiting to hear your answer to my question regarding exactly how you’re using the Bible as ideology. I’d like to know your personal theology, too–you don’t have to go into detail, just a nod towards “Conservative Protestant”, “Liberal Protestant”, “Catholic”, “Mormon”, “Jehovah’s Witness”, “Seventh Day Adventist”, whatever, etc. I think most people know by now that the Bible has many conflicting messages that can be used to support whatever you want it to support, which is why there are numerous conflicting sects. I want an answer. What will more likely lead to peace? Abram’s Solution to the Strife 13:1 So Abram went up from Egypt into the Negev.1 He took his wife and all his possessions with him, as well as Lot.2 13:2 (Now Abram was very wealthy3 in livestock, silver, and gold.)4 13:3 And he journeyed from place to place5 from the Negev as far as Bethel. He returned6 to the place where he had pitched his tent7 in the beginning, between Bethel and Ai. 13:4 This was the place where he had first built the altar;8 and there Abram worshiped the Lord.9 13:5 Now Lot, who was traveling10 with Abram, also had11 flocks, herds, and tents. 13:6 But the land could12 not support them while they were living side by side.13 Because their possessions were so great, they were not able to live14 side by side. 13:7 So there were quarrels15 between Abram’s herdsmen and Lot’s herdsmen.16 (Now the Canaanites and the Perizzites were living in the land at that time.)17 13:8 Abram said to Lot, "Let there be no quarreling between me and you, and between my herdsmen and your herdsmen, for we are close relatives.18 13:9 Is not the whole land before you? **Separate yourself now from me. If you go19 to the left, then I’ll go to the right; but if you go to the right, then I’ll go to the left."** or endless riots and tension? ---
**Author:** ![minty\_green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2002, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-nationalism-part-ii/133522/178 "2002-10-26T17:42:16Z")
> [@](#): > > No, I don’t wish to quibble with decontructionists who claim there is no Western Civilization, so I referred to a class you could take. I never said there was no such thing. I just challenged you to define it in a way that supported your ideology. You haven’t. You can’t. Ashheap. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2002, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-nationalism-part-ii/133522/179 "2002-10-26T18:35:36Z")
> [@](#): > > Blacks have had decades of help, equality, and tax money… yet are not assimilated besides a minority of them. Actually, blacks have had fewer than four decades of the kind of “help” you claim that they have recieved–and for at least half of that time the executive powers of the U.S. have actively or passively worked to interfere with that help–following over 300 years of violently imposed non-equality, yet a _majority_ of them are very much assimilated into U.S. culture. The fact that a minority of people in the poorest and most crowded neighborhoods have not assimilated into the middle class suburbs reflects much more on class and economy than on ethnic differences. And the fact that you seem to be in denial regarding their general assimilation indicates that you are more interested in playing with stereotypes than in looking at genuine facts. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2002, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-nationalism-part-ii/133522/180 "2002-10-26T18:49:01Z")
> [@](#): > > I also think that AmerIndians should have their own sovereign nation on some land of their own without any meddling or welfare from ours. Well, they did. But people took it away from them. :rolleyes: [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-nationalism-part-ii/133522.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-nationalism-part-ii/133522.md?page=10)