# White people getting killed by police under questionable circumstances - the omnibus thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 28, 2015, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-people-getting-killed-by-police-under-questionable-circumstances-the-omnibus-thread/718733 "2015-04-28T18:29:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2015, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-people-getting-killed-by-police-under-questionable-circumstances-the-omnibus-thread/718733/61 "2015-04-29T16:05:10Z")
[John Geer.](http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/the-unaccountable-death-of-john-geer/2014/09/05/29d36d96-339a-11e4-a723-fa3895a25d02_story.html) ---
**Author:** ![FuriousGeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ecae2f/32.png) [@FuriousGeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FuriousGeorge)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2015, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-people-getting-killed-by-police-under-questionable-circumstances-the-omnibus-thread/718733/62 "2015-04-29T16:07:54Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > So far: > > 2015: 0 > 2014: 2 > 2013: 1 > 2012: 3 > 2011: 1 > … > 2006: 1 > > It happens, but so far, apparently quite infrequently. Thanks for the accounting. So what have we learned from this? In a thread on the Dope started by you yesterday, a subset of self selected board members have voluntarily contributed anectdotes to this thread and you have categorized them by year. What an absolute metric shit ton of valuable information… ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2015, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-people-getting-killed-by-police-under-questionable-circumstances-the-omnibus-thread/718733/63 "2015-04-29T16:11:22Z")
Well, that’s more than you’ve done Furious George. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2015, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-people-getting-killed-by-police-under-questionable-circumstances-the-omnibus-thread/718733/64 "2015-04-29T16:12:29Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Well, no. Her Majesty’s a pretty nice girl, but she doesn’t have a lot to say. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2015, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-people-getting-killed-by-police-under-questionable-circumstances-the-omnibus-thread/718733/65 "2015-04-29T16:13:33Z")
> [@Larry\_Borgia](#): > > [John Geer.](http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/the-unaccountable-death-of-john-geer/2014/09/05/29d36d96-339a-11e4-a723-fa3895a25d02_story.html) Got that. See post 55. ---
**Author:** ![FuriousGeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ecae2f/32.png) [@FuriousGeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FuriousGeorge)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2015, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-people-getting-killed-by-police-under-questionable-circumstances-the-omnibus-thread/718733/66 "2015-04-29T16:14:15Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > Well, that’s more than you’ve done Furious George. Hey I performed an analysis of the accounting that’s as in depth and valuable as the information itself. ---
**Author:** ![pool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pool/32/4152_2.png) [@pool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pool)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2015, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-people-getting-killed-by-police-under-questionable-circumstances-the-omnibus-thread/718733/67 "2015-04-29T16:17:23Z")
[http://www.cnn.com/2014/01/07/justice/north-carolina-teen-killed/](http://www.cnn.com/2014/01/07/justice/north-carolina-teen-killed/) Family says police officer shot Keith Vidal after saying, “We don’t have time for this.” ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2015, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-people-getting-killed-by-police-under-questionable-circumstances-the-omnibus-thread/718733/68 "2015-04-29T16:21:06Z")
> [@pool](#): > > [http://www.cnn.com/2014/01/07/justice/north-carolina-teen-killed/](http://www.cnn.com/2014/01/07/justice/north-carolina-teen-killed/) > > Family says police officer shot Keith Vidal after saying, “We don’t have time for this.” He really didn’t. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2015, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-people-getting-killed-by-police-under-questionable-circumstances-the-omnibus-thread/718733/69 "2015-04-29T17:32:50Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > So far: > > 2015: 0 > 2014: 2 > 2013: 1 > 2012: 3 > 2011: 1 > … > 2006: 1 > > It happens, but so far, apparently quite infrequently. Is that a complete list? If not, how can you come to that conclusion? ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2015, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-people-getting-killed-by-police-under-questionable-circumstances-the-omnibus-thread/718733/70 "2015-04-29T19:39:35Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Is that a complete list? If not, how can you come to that conclusion? I am absolutely certain that, as a counting **so far** , it was complete and accurate at the time I posted. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2015, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-people-getting-killed-by-police-under-questionable-circumstances-the-omnibus-thread/718733/71 "2015-04-29T19:46:53Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Is that a complete list? If not, how can you come to that conclusion? I’m curious what the words “so far” mean to you. There’s a side discussion about whether the percentage of encounters with the police should be taken into account. Well, yes and no. Sure, that could be interesting, and it may show that the police are not deliberately targeting black men. But there’s a wider question: are police in our country effectively trained at strategies for de-escalating violent situations in a way that results in nobody being injured or killed? Examples of white guys getting shot may add to the evidence that police training in this regard is inadequate–or that, while there’s training, the consequences for escalation are sufficiently minor that they don’t act as a deterrent. Which is to say, lock up some of the violent cops, and the others might start thinking twice. And if that’s the case, then the fact that black people encounter the police more often means they’re exposed to this unacceptable risk more often, and even if they’re exposed to it in a proportional manner, its effect on black Americans can be disproportionate. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2015, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-people-getting-killed-by-police-under-questionable-circumstances-the-omnibus-thread/718733/72 "2015-04-29T20:17:52Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > If you like here is another few that I found in another minute of googling: > > [http://theexaminer.com/stories/news/out-pocket](http://theexaminer.com/stories/news/out-pocket) [26 July 2010](http://www.texasobserver.org/james-whitehead-robert-arnold-shades-gray-orange/): > [@](#): > > Whitehead may have been self-medicating with marijuana and ibuprofen that day—tests later found THC in his system—and he may have taken more than his prescribed dose of the stimulant Adderall; his four-day-old prescription bottle was later found to be missing a few pills. He was in good spirits when he, Edwards, and Whitehead’s uncle, Robert Franken, arrived at O’Reilly Auto Parts on 16th Street in Orange. His plan was to exchange a part he’d bought earlier that day—a valve he’d realized he didn’t need—for a new starter. But when the manager said he couldn’t take the valve back because it had already been installed, Whitehead snapped. > > Whitehead shouted that he hadn’t installed the part, slammed it on the counter, and began cursing and calling the manager names. Wearing a greasy Jägermeister T-shirt and beige shorts, with hair down over his ears, Whitehead was no longer the clean-cut military man he’d once been. But with his long, swinging arms and booming voice, he could still intimidate. “I want my fucking money back, and I’ll be fucking gone,” he yelled, according to a statement by one of a dozen witnesses. As Whitehead continued to yell, the manager called 911 and described the irate customer across the counter: “Six-foot-three,” the manager said. Whitehead butted in: “I’m fucking 230 pounds!” A customer behind him in line stepped up and asked Whitehead not to swear in front of his daughter. > > That customer was Robert Arnold, an off-duty policeman who’d brought his teenage daughter to get a battery for her four-wheeler. Arnold […] had become the first black officer in the department’s history to reach the rank of captain. > > “Nigga, I’ll bust you in the fucking face,” Whitehead said, stepping closer with his hands balled into fists at his side. According to some witness statements, Arnold identified himself as a police officer, but Whitehead’s temper was unchanged. “What are you gonna do, fucking arrest me or something?” he yelled. “Get away from me, nigger.” > > “You called it,” Arnold said, telling Whitehead to wait, and leaving his daughter at the counter with a store employee. > > “Go ahead, you fucking coon,” Whitehead yelled, continuing to spew hate. “I’ll whip your ass,” Whitehead told the manager. “I bet you’re a queer, huh? You look like a fucking faggot.” Edwards told Whitehead they should leave, and as they started for the door the manager reminded Whitehead to take the valve he’d left on the counter. Whitehead grabbed it and walked out. > > In the parking lot, Arnold had gone to his Chevy Tahoe to get handcuffs and a flashlight. Witnesses say Arnold approached Whitehead. Whitehead yelled, “You gonna arrest me, nigger? You gonna arrest me, coon?” He bumped chests with Arnold, still yelling, and then walked back to Edwards’ truck, which was parked by the store’s entrance. Arnold followed him. Whitehead started to open the door of Edwards’ truck and Arnold, fearing he might be reaching for a weapon, held the door to block his way. Searching his wallet for his police ID, Arnold first produced the wrong card, searched again, and then held up what most witnesses agree was his police ID card. (Edwards maintains that the second card was something else, and that Arnold never properly identified himself as an officer.) Arnold held out a pair of handcuffs and told Whitehead to put them on. “You’re not even a cop!” Whitehead yelled. He continued shouting “nigger” and “coon” as he and Arnold bumped chests beside the truck. Whitehead leaned down and pressed his forehead into Arnold’s. Stepping back, Arnold pulled a short-barreled .38-caliber pistol from his pocket and pointed it at Whitehead. “Go ahead, shoot me, motherfucker,” Whitehead told him, swatting Arnold’s arm. > > “If you hit me, I am going to have to shoot you,” the manager remembers Arnold warning. Whitehead lunged at Arnold and said, “I want you to put a bullet in my head, you fucking coon.” > > According to some witnesses, Whitehead then lunged again and reached for Arnold’s gun. Arnold fired once, hitting Whitehead in the chest. (Edwards says Whitehead was already in the truck when he was shot; the pathologist who performed Whitehead’s autopsy later agreed that Whitehead was likely seated when he was shot.) > [@Terr](#): > > [Man Killed by Off-Duty Officer in Dallas – NBC 5 Dallas-Fort Worth](http://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/Man-Dies-In-Dallas-Officer-Involved-Shooting-270705511.html) August 2014: > [@](#): > > A few blocks away, in the 400 block of S. Rosemont Avenue, police said Hudson witnessed the man stop a passing van and try to climb in, alongside the family inside. > “For the safety of the family, the officer gave loud verbal commands, but the suspect refused to comply,” said Maj. Jeff Cotner. “The suspect moved toward the officer in a manner perceived to be dangerous to the officer. The officer shot the suspect.” […] > > During a news conference Monday morning, Cotner confirmed no weapon was found on Gaynier and there is no indication the suspect was armed at the time. > > Cotner said a neighbor’s home surveillance video recorded the incident, and the video confirms Gaynier rushed the officer after trying to get into the van. Witnesses also told police they heard Hudson order Gaynier to “show his hands” prior to the shooting, Cotner said. > [@Terr](#): > > [http://rollingout.com/news/female-police-officer-charged-killing-unarmed-white-man-fatal-shooting/](http://rollingout.com/news/female-police-officer-charged-killing-unarmed-white-man-fatal-shooting/) 2 February 2015: > [@](#): > > According to the Associated Press, officer Lisa J. Mearkle stopped David Kassick because he was driving with expired tags on Feb. 2. Kassick decided to drive away and led Mearkle on a chase. He drove to his sister’s home where he got out of his car and attempted to make it to the front door. > > However, Mearkle caught Kassick and an altercation ensued. Mearkle pulled out her taser and used it on Kassick. He fell to the ground and Mearkle pulled out her weapon. She then shot Kassick twice in the back of the head. > > […] Mearkle, a 14-year veteran, claimed that she was acting in self-defense and Kassick was reaching for something in his jacket. But audio and video from her stun gun proved that Kassick was not gesturing in a violent manner. I’m not quite sure what the exact inclusion categories for “questionable circumstances” are here, or whether the fact that the officers in the first two stories were off-duty makes any difference in the bookkeeping. ---
**Author:** ![sciurophobic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cab0a1/32.png) [@sciurophobic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sciurophobic)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2015, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-people-getting-killed-by-police-under-questionable-circumstances-the-omnibus-thread/718733/73 "2015-04-29T20:22:12Z")
> [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](#): > > Just skimming over this, I wondered, “What the hell is an absorption sofa?” The type of sofa Seinfeld wished he owned when Poppy sat on his. [link](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f4ggndjERvQ) ---
**Author:** ![pool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pool/32/4152_2.png) [@pool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pool)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2015, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-people-getting-killed-by-police-under-questionable-circumstances-the-omnibus-thread/718733/74 "2015-04-29T20:24:27Z")
Another problem is cops are either improperly trained or willfully obtuse to people that have physical and mental problems. I’ve read more than a few cases where cops killed or injured people that had problems such as deafness, Down’s Syndrome, Autism, etc. Police are just too quick to blow somebody’s head off rather than calmly evaluate the situation even when weapons are not being used by suspects. It’s also funny how in those cases where the police are called when someone threatens suicide the police usually have a way of helping those people out. ---
**Author:** ![TCMF-2L](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tcmf-2l/32/16553_2.png) [@TCMF-2L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TCMF-2L)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2015, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-people-getting-killed-by-police-under-questionable-circumstances-the-omnibus-thread/718733/75 "2015-04-29T21:47:03Z")
> [@pool](#): > > Another problem is cops are either improperly trained or willfully obtuse to people that have physical and mental problems. I’ve read more than a few cases where cops killed or injured people that had problems such as deafness, Down’s Syndrome, Autism, etc. Police are just too quick to blow somebody’s head off rather than calmly evaluate the situation even when weapons are not being used by suspects. It’s also funny how in those cases where the police are called when someone threatens suicide the police usually have a way of helping those people out. Reminds me of a notorious case in the UK. Back in 2012 a 61 year old blind man was walking along the street. Having had two recent strokes he was moving at a speed he described as a snail’s pace. He heard shouting and feared there were muggers about to attack him. Sadly it was worse. There was a police officer on the lookout for a man reported to be carrying a samurai sword. He saw the white cane the blind man was using and unleashed a 50,000 volt taser **into the back** of the harmless and, as mentioned, slow moving gentleman. Then cuffed him. An enquiry took about a year and decided no criminal charges would be made against the police officer. Another six months after that and the police officer was ordered to apologise to the victim. If it is important the victim was white. > **[Tasered blind man: PC Stuart Wright ordered to apologise](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lancashire-26729965)** > > A disciplinary hearing orders a police officer to apologise for Tasering a blind man after mistaking his white stick for a samurai sword. Note there was a bloke caught that night “on suspicion of carrying an offensive weapon” but in the end he wasn’t charged (no pun intended) with anything. TCMF-2L ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2015, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-people-getting-killed-by-police-under-questionable-circumstances-the-omnibus-thread/718733/76 "2015-04-29T22:11:28Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > I’m curious what the words “so far” mean to you. In that context, it is a nonsense phrase since the rate of incidence, which is what is being claimed, is not influenced by anyone’s reporting of any given incident. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2015, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-people-getting-killed-by-police-under-questionable-circumstances-the-omnibus-thread/718733/77 "2015-04-30T00:03:04Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > I’m not quite sure what the exact inclusion categories for “questionable circumstances” are here, or whether the fact that the officers in the first two stories were off-duty makes any difference in the bookkeeping. All three are as “questionable” as the other incidents. “Questionable” as in not straightforward-justified, and killing unarmed civilians. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2015, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-people-getting-killed-by-police-under-questionable-circumstances-the-omnibus-thread/718733/78 "2015-04-30T01:26:11Z")
I’m 57 and I own a handgun and a shotgun. I am not a cop. I’ve never killed anyone, be it murder, negligence, accident, depraved indifference, luck of the draw, or whatever. Just as a data point. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2015, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-people-getting-killed-by-police-under-questionable-circumstances-the-omnibus-thread/718733/79 "2015-04-30T05:39:05Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Thomas was, after all, homeless, so who cares, right? Some of the apparent anti-black discrimination in U.S. is actually anti-underclass. They get conflated because of the high correlation between race and poverty. (Of course there is a racist tendency to prejudge a person’s “class” based on his skin color.) ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2015, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-people-getting-killed-by-police-under-questionable-circumstances-the-omnibus-thread/718733/80 "2015-04-30T05:41:31Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > I’m 57 and I own a handgun and a shotgun. I am not a cop. I’ve never killed anyone, be it murder, negligence, accident, depraved indifference, luck of the draw, or whatever. Sounds like you have some caching up to do. Do you live near a black ghetto? Thought of joining Neighborhood Watch? 😛 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-people-getting-killed-by-police-under-questionable-circumstances-the-omnibus-thread/718733.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-people-getting-killed-by-police-under-questionable-circumstances-the-omnibus-thread/718733.md?page=5)