# White people: your use of the N word **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [September 7, 2020, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-people-your-use-of-the-n-word/920043 "2020-09-07T17:56:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2020, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-people-your-use-of-the-n-word/920043/101 "2020-09-09T13:23:09Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > Even writing about characters who are a different race from the author is becoming controversial nowadays, sadly. Nonsense. That some random internet person might not like something doesn’t make it “controversial”. Thousands of books are published every year with diverse casts, and virtually none of them generate any real controversy for this. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2020, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-people-your-use-of-the-n-word/920043/102 "2020-09-09T13:27:39Z")
Enough “random Internet people” disliking it makes it controversial regardless of whether that is logical or not.That said, I haven’t heard any complaints about it with regards to the book industry, as opposed to the film industry. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2020, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-people-your-use-of-the-n-word/920043/103 "2020-09-09T13:29:33Z")
I remember the most common offensive term was N\*\*Town. (a name for the black neighborhoods & businesses within a town)That persisted a long,long time. Well into the 1980’s. It’s not really as applicable today. That type of racial boundary has broken down. Neighborhoods are more integrated. Some of the traditionally black areas in my city have Hispanic families. The city is more diverse today. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2020, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-people-your-use-of-the-n-word/920043/104 "2020-09-09T13:30:30Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Nonsense. That some random internet person might not like something doesn’t make it “controversial”. Thousands of books are published every year with diverse casts, and virtually none of them generate any real controversy for this. > **[Are White Authors Not Allowed To Tell Stories Involving Black Characters?](https://www.huffpost.com/entry/are-white-authors-not-allowed-to-tell-stories-involving_b_59d11b90e4b0f58902e5cd35/amp)** > > Are White Authors Not Allowed To Tell Stories Involving Black Characters? > **[Spy author Anthony Horowitz 'warned off' creating black character](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-39988992?SThisFB)** > > Alex Rider creator Anthony Horowitz says he was told it would be "inappropriate" for a white writer. [http://www.utsoc.com.au/thecomma/2020/2/28/the-cultural-appropriation-debate-in-literature](http://www.utsoc.com.au/thecomma/2020/2/28/the-cultural-appropriation-debate-in-literature) ---
**Author:** ![Two\_Many\_Cats2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/779978/32.png) [@Two\_Many\_Cats2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Two_Many_Cats2)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2020, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-people-your-use-of-the-n-word/920043/105 "2020-09-09T13:31:57Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > This shows you’re not understanding the facts here No, this just shows my point that the N word and its derivatives are off limits to acceptable white behavior. Even if a white person spoke fluent AAVE as you insist, perhaps by having grown up in a black household, it still would not be deemed acceptable for them to use either the “er” or “a” ending. Our society has deemed that unacceptable behavior for a white person. The thing is, I’m in favor of allowing people of color to continue to use the word among themselves. That’s something that they’ve earned after all these years. For god’s sake, it’s something that bonds them together. Let them keep it for themselves. It doesn’t do anything bad to people lacking color. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2020, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-people-your-use-of-the-n-word/920043/106 "2020-09-09T13:32:30Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > [Are White Authors Not Allowed To Tell Stories Involving Black Characters? | HuffPost](https://www.google.com/amp/s/m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_59d11b90e4b0f58902e5cd35/amp) > > [Spy author Anthony Horowitz 'warned off' creating black character - BBC News](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-39988992?SThisFB) > > [http://www.utsoc.com.au/thecomma/2020/2/28/the-cultural-appropriation-debate-in-literature](http://www.utsoc.com.au/thecomma/2020/2/28/the-cultural-appropriation-debate-in-literature) This doesn’t challenge what I said. You want to hang out on the fringes, feel free. But thousands of books are published every year, with diverse protagonists, and virtually none of them face any significant backlash. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2020, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-people-your-use-of-the-n-word/920043/107 "2020-09-09T13:34:28Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > Enough “random Internet people” disliking it makes it controversial regardless of whether that is logical or not. > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > But thousands of books are published every year, with diverse protagonists, and virtually none of them face any significant backlash. Now it has to be “significant backlash” to be “controversial”? I can think of quite a few people who are controversial without suffering significant backlash. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2020, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-people-your-use-of-the-n-word/920043/108 "2020-09-09T13:34:33Z")
> [@Two\_Many\_Cats2](#): > > No, this just shows my point that the N word and its derivatives are off limits to acceptable white behavior. Even if a white person spoke fluent AAVE as you insist, perhaps by having grown up in a black household, it still would not be deemed acceptable for them to use either the “er” or “a” ending. > Our society has deemed that unacceptable behavior. > > The thing is, I’m in favor of allowing people of color to continue to use the word among themselves. > That’s something that they’ve earned after all these years. For god’s sake, it’s something that bonds them together. Let them keep it for themselves. It doesn’t do anything bad to people lacking color. At least you’re no longer denying the existence of dialects. But what you said up in the first paragraph is pretty much just a guess. Anecdotally, I’ve known of occasional but still real examples of white people who are “accepted” as a sort of culturally black person by their black community, dialect and language and all. Rare, but real. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2020, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-people-your-use-of-the-n-word/920043/109 "2020-09-09T13:36:39Z")
Try reading the Huffpost article before you decide how fringy this is. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2020, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-people-your-use-of-the-n-word/920043/110 "2020-09-09T13:37:04Z")
I only said “significant” to eliminate the chances of finding some random tweeter who “backlashed” against some big novel. That doesn’t matter. There will always be random tweeters opposing any and every possible example and permutation of anything. I read hundreds of books each year, usually with very diverse casts, and follow dozens of authors online, and I’m not aware of any real backlash or negative consequences by any author for simply having a protagonist from another race. If it’s happened, it’s so incredibly rare that it’s meaningless when it comes to wider culture and society. ---
**Author:** ![Two\_Many\_Cats2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/779978/32.png) [@Two\_Many\_Cats2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Two_Many_Cats2)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2020, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-people-your-use-of-the-n-word/920043/111 "2020-09-09T13:40:36Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > At least you’re no longer denying the existence of dialects. I never denied the existence of dialects. I just deny that “er” and “a” endings for this word don’t amount to the same thing. It’s just that it’s acceptable for one race and not for another. That sounds like the essence of racism, but it’s an exception that granted because of linguistic history. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2020, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-people-your-use-of-the-n-word/920043/112 "2020-09-09T13:41:02Z")
I remain unconvinced. That some weirdos occasionally criticize an author for no good reason doesn’t tell us anything except that there are weirdos out there, which we already knew. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2020, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-people-your-use-of-the-n-word/920043/113 "2020-09-09T13:41:41Z")
It’s two different words, with two different meanings. Are you arguing that they’re used in the same way? They’re very clearly not – one is used as a vicious, awful slur, and one is used entirely casually, with no negative connotation. If they’re used in a different way, with different pronunciations, and different spellings, then how on earth are they the same word? ---
**Author:** ![Two\_Many\_Cats2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/779978/32.png) [@Two\_Many\_Cats2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Two_Many_Cats2)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2020, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-people-your-use-of-the-n-word/920043/114 "2020-09-09T13:42:28Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I’m not aware of any real backlash or negative consequences by any author for simply having a protagonist from another race. That’s because it’s a trend that’s just beginning. I hope it doesn’t continue, but we shall see. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2020, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-people-your-use-of-the-n-word/920043/115 "2020-09-09T13:43:18Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I only said “significant” to eliminate the chances of finding some random tweeter who “backlashed” against some big novel. That doesn’t matter. It matters if it makes publishers get cold feet. Horowitz was warned off by an editor, the Huffpost writer had three different agencies cite ‘appropriation’ as a reason for rejection. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2020, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-people-your-use-of-the-n-word/920043/116 "2020-09-09T13:44:12Z")
> [@Two\_Many\_Cats2](#): > > That’s because it’s a trend that’s just beginning. I hope it doesn’t continue, but we shall see. Me too. ---
**Author:** ![Two\_Many\_Cats2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/779978/32.png) [@Two\_Many\_Cats2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Two_Many_Cats2)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2020, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-people-your-use-of-the-n-word/920043/117 "2020-09-09T13:48:44Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > f they’re used in a different way, with different pronunciations, and different spellings, then how on earth are they the same word? The only reason there’s a different spelling is to distinguish it from the original N word. If you greet your brother with a “Hello stupid.”, is it the same thing as greeting a total stranger the same way? Of course, it isn’t… But we don’t see the need to spell it stoopid to distinguish it from stupid. Because of the terrible history behind the N word, we feel the need to make the distinction. And that’s fine. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2020, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-people-your-use-of-the-n-word/920043/118 "2020-09-09T13:49:02Z")
Oh no, someone said something dumb to me! It must be a trend! I remain unconvinced that this is anything more than extremely rare. Certainly far, far more rare than writers being discriminated against for being black, or a woman, or trans, or gay, etc. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2020, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-people-your-use-of-the-n-word/920043/119 "2020-09-09T13:49:57Z")
The distinction is that they’re two different words. This is one of the ways that new words come about – different dialect users begin using them differently. There’s nothing unusual about this. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2020, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-people-your-use-of-the-n-word/920043/120 "2020-09-09T13:50:58Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Certainly far, far more rare than writers being discriminated against for being black, or a woman, or trans, or gay, etc. And that isn’t as big a problem as poverty and health care. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-people-your-use-of-the-n-word/920043.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-people-your-use-of-the-n-word/920043.md?page=7)