# White Privilage **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 9, 2018, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-privilage/808511 "2018-02-09T14:26:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2018, 6:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-privilage/808511/261 "2018-02-14T06:44:25Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > And what would you suggest should be the response when the alleged non-racists/SJWs, ever eager to virtue signal to friend and foe alike, take it upon themselves to criticize, shame or mock others for things that aren’t, in fact, racist (and often not even remotely racist)? Anybody who thinks that a particular act of anti-racist criticism, shaming or mockery is ill-judged or misapplied is free to criticize, shame or mock in return. And any butthurt conservative snowflake who gets more upset about criticism of racism than about actual racism can in turn be criticized, shamed or mocked for that. All part of the “free country” thing. > [@anomalous1](#): > > It is in fact racism, the “White Privilege” idea is a racist idea in itself. Ah, you must be one of those “virtue signalers” that **Starving Artist** is upset with for criticizing things that aren’t even remotely racist. Because there’s really nothing racist at all in recognizing that the historical legacy of racism in a society leaves some residual racial privilege for the people in the historical oppressor group, even if nowadays there is (mostly) a general consensus that racism is bad. In fact, only an extremely naive person could think it might possibly be otherwise. Societies don’t just completely forget or abandon their long-entrenched prejudices in a few years or even decades. What they learn rapidly is not how to overcome their prejudices, but how to shift the blame for their prejudices onto somebody else. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2018, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-privilage/808511/262 "2018-02-14T07:35:39Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Anybody who thinks that a particular act of anti-racist criticism, shaming or mockery is ill-judged or misapplied is free to criticize, shame or mock in return. > > And any butthurt conservative snowflake who gets more upset about criticism of racism than about actual racism can in turn be criticized, shamed or mocked for that. All part of the “free country” thing. I think the point is that we should do our part to not embody the worst stereotypes of people who call things racist even when they’re not. It is a free country, but that shouldn’t be an excuse to be a tosser. I’m _really_ trying to be nice here, and I’m not sure why. There isn’t nearly as much of that as you think, **Starving Artist**. At least not _here_. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2018, 7:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-privilage/808511/263 "2018-02-14T07:49:58Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Anybody who thinks that a particular act of anti-racist criticism, shaming or mockery is ill-judged or misapplied is free to criticize, shame or mock in return. > > And any butthurt conservative snowflake who gets more upset about criticism of racism than about actual racism can in turn be criticized, shamed or mocked for that. All part of the “free country” thing. Who says they’re more upset about criticism of racism than racism itself? They are not mutually exclusive, one can disapprove of both at the same time. But you’re right. It’s high time those of us on the receiving end of false accusations of racism began fighting back and telling those who accuse us of racism to stuff it. Now all we have to do is gain control of at least 50% of the MSM, Hollywood, news and entertainment magazines and schools from approximately 2nd grade up and our voice can be heard. As it is, attempting to fight back against false accusations of racism is like pissing in the wind. > [@Kimstu](#): > > Ah, you must be one of those “virtue signalers” that **Starving Artist** is upset with for criticizing things that aren’t even remotely racist. It’s amusing how you try to turn our vernacular back on us with things like ‘virtue signaling’ and ‘snowflake’, but everyone in the country knows without needing to be told which party the terms apply to. > [@Kimstu](#): > > Because there’s really nothing racist at all in recognizing that the historical legacy of racism in a society leaves some residual racial privilege for the people in the historical oppressor group, even if nowadays there is (mostly) a general consensus that racism is bad. I don’t think many people at all these days thinks there’s anything wrong with acknowledging the country’s history of racism and recognizing its legacy. The problem arises over how best to remedy them. The left seems to think that insult, accusation and divisiveness is the answer. I don’t. > [@Kimstu](#): > > In fact, only an extremely naive person could think it might possibly be otherwise. Societies don’t just completely forget or abandon their long-entrenched prejudices in a few years or even decades. What they learn rapidly is not how to overcome their prejudices, but how to shift the blame for their prejudices onto somebody else. They would overcome their prejudices much more quickly were the left not busily defending and encouraging every negative behavior that has unfortunately grown out of this country’s racist past while at the same time criticizing, mocking and shouting accusations of racism at every suggestion of ways they could be changed for the better so as to achieve genuine equality. I won’t go into that now as I don’t have the time and this isn’t the thread, but the kind of things I have in mind are the same things Bill Cosby has been saying for years. The only difference is when we say them we get called racist. When he says them he gets called senile. So here we’re left with America’s liberals, busily hurling accusations of racism and any and everyone over everything, while at the same time doing everything they can to make sure that the problem areas that keep blacks down and limit their financial opportunities and genuine equality flourish unopposed. That is the kind of stuff that gets us conservative snowflakes cranked. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2018, 7:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-privilage/808511/264 "2018-02-14T07:52:09Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > I think the point is that we should do our part to not embody the worst stereotypes of people who call things racist even when they’re not. It is a free country, but that shouldn’t be an excuse to be a tosser. > > I’m _really_ trying to be nice here, and I’m not sure why. There isn’t nearly as much of that as you think, **Starving Artist**. At least not _here_. Thanks. I’m mystified myself as to why you’re being nice here, but it’s certainly appreciated. Thanks both for your words and your tone. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2018, 10:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-privilage/808511/265 "2018-02-14T10:32:09Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > I don’t think many people at all these days thinks there’s anything wrong with acknowledging the country’s history of racism and recognizing its legacy. The problem arises over how best to remedy them. The left seems to think that insult, accusation and divisiveness is the answer. I don’t. Why do you focus on this so much? There’s tons of decent and thoughtful and non-insulting discussion about the legacy of racism, in this thread and on this board. Why respond to thoughtful discussion with complaints about insults? ---
**Author:** ![proudfootz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/b9e5f3/32.png) [@proudfootz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/proudfootz)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2018, 11:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-privilage/808511/266 "2018-02-14T11:02:39Z")
There seems to be a lot of people who think talking about white privilege as a consequence of a long cultural history of the worst kind of racism is somehow insulting. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2018, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-privilage/808511/267 "2018-02-14T12:38:28Z")
> [@proudfootz](#): > > There seems to be a lot of people who think talking about white privilege as a consequence of a long cultural history of the worst kind of racism is somehow insulting. The worst kind of racism never existed in this country, the kind that leads to planned and willful extermination. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2018, 12:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-privilage/808511/268 "2018-02-14T12:41:47Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > The worst kind of racism never existed in this country, the kind that leads to planned and willful extermination. That’s silly. For one thing, of course it has – there have been plenty of American white supremacists and bigots who’ve advocated extermination, and tried to make it happen. For another, it’s entirely reasonable to consider centuries of mass rape and brutality to be on the same scale of immorality as genocide. Keeping someone in a basement for 50 years and raping them every day isn’t less evil than killing them on the first day. EDIT: This is all subjective, of course. I just find your assertion totally ridiculous. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2018, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-privilage/808511/269 "2018-02-14T14:21:42Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > The worst kind of racism never existed in this country, the kind that leads to planned and willful extermination. Phew, what a relief to know South Africa never experienced this kind of racism, either. Guess we had it good and we never knew :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2018, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-privilage/808511/270 "2018-02-14T14:33:51Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > I think the point is that we should do our part to not embody the worst stereotypes of people who call things racist even when they’re not. It is a free country, but that shouldn’t be an excuse to be a tosser. > > I’m _really_ trying to be nice here, and I’m not sure why. There isn’t nearly as much of that as you think, **Starving Artist**. At least not _here_. (Just to clarify: there isn’t nearly as much of people going overboard and calling totally innocuous things racist.) ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2018, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-privilage/808511/271 "2018-02-14T14:38:55Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > > [@madsircool](#): > > > > The worst kind of racism never existed in this country, the kind that leads to planned and willful extermination. > > Phew, what a relief to know South Africa never experienced this kind of racism, either. Guess we had it good and we never knew :dubious: **madsircool** is in Los Angeles - I don’t think “this country” referred to South Africa. > [@proudfootz](#): > > There seems to be a lot of people who think talking about white privilege as a consequence of a long cultural history of the worst kind of racism is somehow insulting. Not so much “insulting” as “inaccurate”. If you want to see someone act insulted, suggest that the problems of blacks in America shouldn’t be blamed on white people. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2018, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-privilage/808511/272 "2018-02-14T14:52:03Z")
I used to credit my work ethic for all my success. I always had jobs when I was a teenager and that taught me the value of hard work. Recently, I took a hard look at those jobs. Of the eight real jobs I had, five of them definitely would not have hired me if I had been black. The other three I can’t be sure. I guess that’s my white privilege right there. Yes, I have a work ethic because I always had a job. But, those jobs were way easier to come by because of the color of my skin. I took advantage of the privileges afforded me, which I think is all of our right to do, but as a society we have to do better to actually have a meritocracy that favors hard work. ---
**Author:** ![Fuji](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a9a28c/32.png) [@Fuji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuji)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2018, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-privilage/808511/273 "2018-02-14T15:08:36Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Phew, what a relief to know South Africa never experienced this kind of racism, either. Guess we had it good and we never knew :dubious: > [@Shodan](#): > > **madsircool** is in Los Angeles - I don’t think “this country” referred to South Africa. I’m pretty sure **MrDibble** can speak for himself, but since he hasn’t replied yet, I think the point he was getting at in his comment (as evinced by the use of the word “either”), was that **madsircool** ’s notion that the “worst kind of racism” necessarily “leads to planned and willful extermination” would imply that only literal Nazis (maybe Ottoman Turks?) can lay claim to the “worst” mantle. I’m no expert on South African history, but I do believe that they’ve had more than a few minor hiccups regarding race. Moreover, while the USA never implemented industrial genocide like the Nazis, there have been many local massacres against Native Americans either perpetrated directly or condoned by the authorities. Before 1776, there were also many of these incidents under British colonial rule. ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2018, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-privilage/808511/274 "2018-02-14T15:09:25Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Are you saying that you would treat them differently? Why is important to you know the race of the person that has called to complain about minor vandalism outside his $1.5 house > > You keep bringing up white and black, this is high crime vs low crime neighborhoods we are talking about. > > And yes, absolutely, the don’t let the people in “high crime” neighborhoods get away with the same exact stuff that those in “low crime” neighborhoods do. The low crime areas get police protection when and where they want it. To keep people from speeding though their neighborhood, to keep them from running the stop sign at the corner, to keep an eye on things if there’s been vandalism or car break ins recently. They show up and are polite and courteous when someone calls about all the non-crime related issues that they have need of talking to a police officer about. > > They aren’t going to be pulling over the rich kid in his beemer, even though if they did, they’d find he has a small pharmacy of illegal drugs that he is selling like candy. They don’t bust up groups of kids for playing or even just travelling on the streets. > > They do do this in areas they have decided are “high crime”. > As I personally know quite a number of people that have committed crime and have never been arrested for it, I can say that any statistic like that cannot fail but be effected by observer bias. > > Put it this way. If 90% of drug dealers are not caught and arrested, and drug dealing was done at the same rate by two different sample populations, do you think that you would find more drug dealers in the population that you are looking at more closely, or the population you are looking at less closely? “They” do not decide which areas are “high crime”, “criminals” do. It is conceivable that white drug dealers are less likely to be arrested than black dealers because police are more likely to be in the area looking for other types of criminals. However, the effect of this is very small. If every drug was legalized tomorrow it would have almost no difference in the different rates than blacks and whites are arrested. 87% of arrests do not involve drugs. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2018, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-privilage/808511/275 "2018-02-14T15:15:39Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > The not so nice neighborhoods don’t get to tell the police where and when to patrol, or that they would rather you bring any misdemeanors their children are up to to them rather than unnecessarily putting them through the courts. Are you sayiing Democratically controlled local democracies are not in tune with the desires of the voters? More fiction. The drastic increases in incarceration witnessed at the end of the 20th century was a result of community demands for tougher policing. Go to a community meeting in violent neighborhoods and see what the property owners and residents are saying. They are demanding more police and more arrests, specifically for drugs. It has been the norm since the 1970s. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2018, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-privilage/808511/276 "2018-02-14T15:17:01Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > The not so nice neighborhoods don’t get to tell the police where and when to patrol, or that they would rather you bring any misdemeanors their children are up to to them rather than unnecessarily putting them through the courts. Are you sayiing Democratically controlled local democracies are not in tune with the desires of the voters? More fiction. The drastic increases in incarceration witnessed at the end of the 20th century was a result of community demands for tougher policing. Go to community meetings in violent neighborhoods and see what the property owners and residents are saying. They are demanding more police and more arrests, specifically for drugs. It has been the norm since the 1970s. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2018, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-privilage/808511/277 "2018-02-14T15:25:20Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > Are you sayiing Democratically controlled local democracies are not in tune with the desires of the voters? Where the hell is the word “Democratic” in his statement? It is pretty obvious that he isn’t saying that because he _didn’t_ say that. _I_ read what he wrote, and I had no problem whatsoever understanding it without translating it into an entirely different sentence I would rather respond to. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2018, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-privilage/808511/278 "2018-02-14T15:49:13Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > **madsircool** is in Los Angeles - I don’t think “this country” referred to South Africa :rolleyes: Yeah, you could tell I already knew this by the way I used “either” in my post. ETA: or what \*\*Fuji \*\*said. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2018, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-privilage/808511/279 "2018-02-14T15:54:12Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > I don’t think many people at all these days thinks there’s anything wrong with acknowledging the country’s history of racism and recognizing its legacy. Then tell that to **anomalous1**. S/he seems to think there’s something profoundly wrong with recognizing racism’s legacy of residual societal privilege for white people—indeed, that it’s somehow racist even to mention the existence of such privilege. :rolleyes: > [@Starving Artist](#): > > The problem arises over how best to remedy them. The left seems to think that insult, accusation and divisiveness is the answer. I don’t. Of course you do, judging from your own incessant stream of insult, accusation and divisiveness directed at liberals: > [@Starving Artist](#): > > […] SJWs, ever eager to virtue signal to friend and foe alike, take it upon themselves to criticize, shame or mock others for things that aren’t, in fact, racist (and often not even remotely racist)? […] this is what happens roughly 98.573% of the time […] > > […] you try to turn our vernacular back on us with things like ‘virtue signaling’ and ‘snowflake’, but everyone in the country knows without needing to be told which party the terms apply to […] > > […] the left […] busily defending and encouraging every negative behavior that has unfortunately grown out of this country’s racist past […] > > […] America’s liberals, busily hurling accusations of racism and any and everyone over everything, while at the same time doing everything they can to make sure that the problem areas […] flourish unopposed […] You’re free to express your own insulting, accusatory and divisive opinions all you want, but you can’t get away with simultaneously trying to bullshit the rest of us about how much you deplore insult, accusation and divisiveness. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2018, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-privilage/808511/280 "2018-02-14T16:00:34Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > “They” do not decide which areas are “high crime”, “criminals” do. It is conceivable that white drug dealers are less likely to be arrested than black dealers because police are more likely to be in the area looking for other types of criminals. However, the effect of this is very small. If every drug was legalized tomorrow it would have almost no difference in the different rates than blacks and whites are arrested. **87% of arrests do not involve drugs.** nm, need to make more here, don’t have time [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-privilage/808511.md?page=13) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-privilage/808511.md?page=15)