# White Privilage **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 9, 2018, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-privilage/808511 "2018-02-09T14:26:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2018, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-privilage/808511/101 "2018-02-11T14:50:44Z")
> [@anomalous1](#): > > The operative word that keeps being used in arguments fomenting this ridiculous theory of a “White Privilege” is “probably” which is tantamount to a guess or estimation. I have a semi-rhetorical question, are black or brown police officers in urban centers more likely to pull over someone with their own skin color as well? Many of the Urban centers have close to the same representation in demographics in police as the populations they reside ([)http://www.governing.com/gov-data/safety-justice/police-department-officer-demographics-minority-representation.html](http://www.governing.com/gov-data/safety-justice/police-department-officer-demographics-minority-representation.html). Specifically New York City, Chicago and Los Angeles. So it is just the white officers going out of their way to pull over those with darker skin color? Is this part of the elaborate conspiracy? > > Maybe some people just cannot accept that things are how they are because that is how they are? That most of the time, there isn’t some angle or nefarious motive. I’m not sure what this is attempting to refute. It doesn’t appear to conflict with the explanations I and others posted, I don’t believe. Unconscious bias can affect everyone, regardless of race – from my understanding, black police officers as well as white police officers are likely to be unknowingly biased against black suspects. That doesn’t make it acceptable or something we just have to live with. If society teaches that black people are criminals for decades and centuries, then black people will be affected by those teachings just as much as white people. ---
**Author:** ![anomalous1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e56c9b/32.png) [@anomalous1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/anomalous1)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2018, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-privilage/808511/102 "2018-02-11T15:07:06Z")
Not so much refuting as I was ranting about what was on my mind, but yes. Anyhow, my point was that this “Privilege” thing is a logical fallacy. It simply only “exists” when comparing or contrasting a group that is less fortunate, maybe by much of their own doing/flaws in their own community, and not because some outside source is creating or exacerbating it which is what the whole “White Privilege” theory, in one of its facets, tries to prove. Because it exists only in a hyperbolic contrast, it isn’t actually a real “thing” more so than it is an empty ideology perpetuated via political agenda. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2018, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-privilage/808511/103 "2018-02-11T15:14:34Z")
> [@anomalous1](#): > > Not so much refuting as I was ranting about what was on my mind, but yes. Anyhow, my point was that this “Privilege” thing is a logical fallacy. It simply only “exists” when comparing or contrasting a group that is less fortunate, maybe by much of their own doing/flaws in their own community, and not because some outside source is creating or exacerbating it which is what the whole “White Privilege” theory, in one of its facets, tries to prove. Because it exists only in a hyperbolic contrast, it isn’t actually a real “thing” more so than it is an empty ideology perpetuated via political agenda. It’s a shorthand way of describing all of the thousands of little things in our society that make life and success just a bit harder for a black person than for a white person, all other things being equal. If you agree that a black person driving a nice car is more likely to be pulled over than a white person driving a nice car, all other things being equal, then you believe that white privilege exists in some circumstances, even if you call it something different. If you don’t agree that things like that exist, then we’re living on different planets, and there’s probably not much point discussing it. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2018, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-privilage/808511/104 "2018-02-11T15:15:02Z")
> [@anomalous1](#): > > I have a semi-rhetorical question, are black or brown police officers in urban centers more likely to pull over someone with their own skin color as well? Many of the Urban centers have close to the same representation in demographics in police as the populations they reside ([)http://www.governing.com/gov-data/safety-justice/police-department-officer-demographics-minority-representation.html](http://www.governing.com/gov-data/safety-justice/police-department-officer-demographics-minority-representation.html). Specifically New York City, Chicago and Los Angeles. So it is just the white officers going out of their way to pull over those with darker skin color? Is this part of the elaborate conspiracy? Yes, actually, black people are more likely to be pulled over by ANY police officer, white, black, brown, male or female, than are white drivers. There are been quite a few incidents of police brutality and unjustified shootings/killings of people by non-white police officers in my area (Greater Chicago). In some instances the officer is acquitted, in others the officer found guilty of murder. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2018, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-privilage/808511/105 "2018-02-11T15:18:16Z")
> [@SteveMonon](#): > > It’s just part of the black privilege (which, unlike “white privilege” is real). You can speak absolutely hateful, ignorant things and no one will bat an eye. What a laughable statement! “Black privilege”? What are you smoking? There’s no privilege in being black in the US, quite the contrary. If there were we’d have lots and lots of white people trying to “pass” as black when historically we’ve had just the opposite (and don’t throw up the “example” of that one lady - she’s notable only for being an exceedingly rare exception). ---
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2018, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-privilage/808511/106 "2018-02-11T20:01:35Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > White privilege basically just means that, for any given individual scenario, being black or brown would probably make things more difficult than being white. If you’re poor and white in Kentucky, it’d probably be even harder to get out of poverty if you’re poor and black in Kentucky. If you just graduated from Harvard, getting a great job will be harder for black graduates than white graduates. If you’re driving down whatever neighborhood, being black will increase the chance of being pulled over by police and mistreated compared to if you are white. If you’re poor and sick, being black will decrease the chances of getting good health care than being white. Etc. > > So for any given scenario, being black in America will probably make things harder than being white if everything else is the same. Some people may not believe that’s always true. The USA is a very large, very complicated society. There are many different social scenes within the country that do not all operate the same way. So it is entirely possible that there are some situations in the country where blacks gets treated worse than whites, and others where blacks get treated better than whites, and others where there’s no differences, and then of course Asians and Hispanics and other groups exist as well. As I’ve already said, I entirely agree that police violence is a problem for many black communities. The history in Chicago, the DOJ reports on policing in Ferguson and Baltimore show that to be true beyond doubt. (Though I would also point out that proof of racism by police in some cities does not imply the same everywhere.) So police violence against blacks, particularly in the poorest neighborhoods, is an issue that everyone should be aware of and take seriously. At the same time, it is not true that life for blacks is more difficult everywhere. At Harvard, it is provably easier to get admitted for blacks, than whites. And it’s hardest for Asian Americans. [The same pattern holds at major universities all over](https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:j-_l6CUBV_8J:https://www.princeton.edu/~tje/files/files/webAdmission%2520Preferences%2520Espenshade%2520Chung%2520Walling%2520Dec%25202004.pdf+&cd=9&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us), because of affirmative action. The same holds true at law schools. At almost any law school, [the average LSAT score for black students is well below that for all other groups](http://www.nber.org/papers/w14276). In other words, it’s much easier to get into a law school for a black person than for a white person. So to assert that “for any given individual scenario, being black or brown would probably make things more difficult than being white” is simply untrue. It would be more accurate to say that it’s true in some cases, false in other cases, hard to measure or define or study in other cases. ---
**Author:** ![proudfootz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/b9e5f3/32.png) [@proudfootz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/proudfootz)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2018, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-privilage/808511/107 "2018-02-11T20:14:09Z")
So one might have an advantage in getting into a school, but also have an edge in likelihood of being shot in the back by a cop. ---
**Author:** ![Lamoral](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lamoral/32/16078_2.png) [@Lamoral](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamoral)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2018, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-privilage/808511/108 "2018-02-11T20:15:22Z")
Also, as the world becomes more globally interconnected, the concept of white privilege can potentially cross national lines, and have many different permutations depending on the country and how it might relate to colonialism. Various forms of racially stratified “caste” systems exist in Latin America, and a similar thing exists in the Philippines but with the added complication of Chinese (and possibly Japanese?) thrown into the mix. The Chinese minorities themselves are seen as privileged interlopers in some Southeast Asian countries, and with China’s trade with African nations - sometimes described as “economic colonialism” - the concept of “Chinese privilege” is probably as likely to exist in 50 years from now as “white privilege” today. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2018, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-privilage/808511/109 "2018-02-11T20:16:11Z")
> [@Silver\_lining](#): > > Claudia Rankine is preaching hate. Please cite the hate she is supposedly preaching. Got quotes? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2018, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-privilage/808511/110 "2018-02-11T23:55:25Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Please cite the hate she is supposedly preaching. > Got quotes? Come on-It doesn’t even have to be that Portland speech I can’t find any reference to online other than the fact that it apparently happened last week. Cite any other works of her’s that show this “hate” she supposedly promotes. That link I gave you in post #32, for example. Did you bother to read it? Have any of you who are jumping on this bandwagon happen to read it? ---
**Author:** ![Asimovian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asimovian/32/172_2.png) [@Asimovian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asimovian)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2018, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-privilage/808511/111 "2018-02-11T23:59:18Z")
> [@digs](#): > > Did I just miss the transcript, or any proof? Have we gotten any assurance that any of these things were actually said? > [@Czarcasm](#): > > Please cite the hate she is supposedly preaching. > Got quotes? > [@Czarcasm](#): > > Come on-It doesn’t even have to be that Portland speech I can’t find any reference to online other than the fact that it apparently happened last week. Cite any other works of her’s that show this “hate” she supposedly promotes. Y’all just let me know when you hear back. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2018, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-privilage/808511/112 "2018-02-12T00:10:45Z")
> [@Jacquernagy](#): > > Voyager, I don’t understand what point you’re trying to make. I’m not agreeing or disagreeing with it, I am just not sure the intention of what you’re asking him? I had a weak simulation of Driving While Black, which then was Driving with Long Hair. Getting in a car and going somewhere is a different experience when you know there is a good chance of getting stopped. Never happened in Cambridge, only Boston. And I had it much better than DWB victims. Someone who has never had this experience probably finds it hard to understand what it is like. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2018, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-privilage/808511/113 "2018-02-12T03:32:47Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > I entirely agree that blacks are more likely than whites to suffer from poverty, police brutality, and other problems. However I don’t see any point is using the term “white privilege”, as I have never seen any evidence that white privilege exists. Really? You have never seen any evidence that some police engage in making traffic stops for “Driving While Black”? You have never noted the sort of discrepancies to which I have alluded in earlier threads on more than one occasion, as described in [this report notes](http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2008/10/race_and_drug_use.html)? (And in threads in which you have participated.) ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2018, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-privilage/808511/114 "2018-02-12T03:38:45Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > I had a weak simulation of Driving While Black, which then was Driving with Long Hair. Getting in a car and going somewhere is a different experience when you know there is a good chance of getting stopped. Never happened in Cambridge, only Boston. And I had it much better than DWB victims. > Someone who has never had this experience probably finds it hard to understand what it is like. Agreed and confirmed on both counts. I had the hair and that hair and I have been to Texas and Georgia in times less tolerant of long-haired fellows. And yeah, bad as it occasionally got, I saw much worse things happen to people for going around sporting black skin. ---
**Author:** ![Yookeroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yookeroo/32/323_2.png) [@Yookeroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yookeroo)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2018, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-privilage/808511/115 "2018-02-12T05:11:10Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > White privilege basically just means that, for any given individual scenario, being black or brown would probably make things more difficult than being white. If you’re poor and white in Kentucky, it’d probably be even harder to get out of poverty if you’re poor and black in Kentucky. If you just graduated from Harvard, getting a great job will be harder for black graduates than white graduates. If you’re driving down whatever neighborhood, being black will increase the chance of being pulled over by police and mistreated compared to if you are white. If you’re poor and sick, being black will decrease the chances of getting good health care than being white. Etc. > > So for any given scenario, being black in America will probably make things harder than being white if everything else is the same. How is this not obvious to anyone of normal intelligence? It’s baffling > [@ITR\_champion](#): > > Some people may not believe that’s always true. Well, some people believe that the Earth is flat… ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2018, 6:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-privilage/808511/116 "2018-02-12T06:19:43Z")
> [@AHunter3](#): > > Agreed and confirmed on both counts. I had the hair and that hair and I have been to Texas and Georgia in times less tolerant of long-haired fellows. And yeah, bad as it occasionally got, I saw much worse things happen to people for going around sporting black skin. Oddly enough I lived in SW Louisiana from 1977-78, had just as long hair, and never got stopped. That was Cajun country, and Cajuns are good people by and large. ---
**Author:** ![anomalous1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e56c9b/32.png) [@anomalous1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/anomalous1)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2018, 6:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-privilage/808511/117 "2018-02-12T06:34:37Z")
Alright, I’ll rephrase more succinctly; Society as of recent does **not** teach that black people are criminals. **No** , it doesn’t. I will concede you one thing; if police are profiling blacks as criminals, they are not doing it unknowingly, but because statistics show that blacks have a higher propensity toward crime due to problems within their own community that lets this be so. That is standard police work, to profile potential suspects and act accordingly. The problems in their community need to be addressed from within before the crime rate falls, and police will over time stop profiling them. This is not difficult to understand. It is purely reactionary to the way things are and how things are observed. There is **not** a conspiracy to undermine blacks and their communities either, this is a problem that needs to be addressed from within, and without blaming others for the situation. “White Privilege” is a term used to re-direct culpability and blame for shortcomings and in and of itself is not a real subject, issue or thing because it is only created when comparing someone else deficits. It is a term used by those who cannot accept the reality before their eyes, or because they don’t have any other plausible answers. With all of the exterior influence in the form of assistance and help, and nothing changes; it only means the problem is rooted in the black community and needs to be addressed there before anything else will work. In order to be helped, you need to help yourself first, otherwise your endeavors will fail. That is all there is to it. ---
**Author:** ![anomalous1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e56c9b/32.png) [@anomalous1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/anomalous1)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2018, 6:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-privilage/808511/118 "2018-02-12T06:39:05Z")
> [@Yookeroo](#): > > How is this not obvious to anyone of normal intelligence? It’s baffling > > Well, some people believe that the Earth is flat… Intelligence does require critical thinking and minimizing the clouding of one’s judgement by emotion and feeling, and accepting fact and reality as it is presented. If after all of the attempts to help and make aware a struggling community, if it does not succeed, the issue must be rooted in that community where outside assistance cannot help. That logic is not very difficult to grasp. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2018, 7:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-privilage/808511/119 "2018-02-12T07:15:11Z")
> [@anomalous1](#): > > Alright, I’ll rephrase more succinctly; > > Society as of recent does **not** teach that black people are criminals. **No** , it doesn’t. …what is this “as of recent” nonsense supposed to mean? Are you claiming that society “used to” teach that black people are criminals? What exactly are you trying to say here? > [@](#): > > I will concede you one thing; if police are profiling blacks as criminals, they are not doing it unknowingly, but because statistics show that blacks have a higher propensity toward crime due to problems within their own community that lets this be so. That is standard police work, to profile potential suspects and act accordingly. Can you guess what happened to the crime rate in New York when they stopped “Stop and Frisk”, a system that massively and disproportionately profiled and targeted black people? When the police stopped what you described as “standard police work” [the crime rate fell.](http://www.nationalreview.com/article/455035/new-york-city-stop-and-frisk-crime-decline-conservatives-wrong) > [@](#): > > The problems in their community need to be addressed from within before the crime rate falls, and police will over time stop profiling them. This is not difficult to understand. Except you got it the wrong way around. The police stopped profiling _first_. Then the crime rate fell. Consistently. Dramatically. > [@](#): > > It is purely reactionary to the way things are and how things are observed. There is **not** a conspiracy to undermine blacks and their communities either, this is a problem that needs to be addressed from within, and without blaming others for the situation. Hundreds of thousands of innocent people were stopped during “Stop and Frisk.” Don’t innocent people have the right to go about their business? How could black people stop “Stop and Frisk from within?” They had to stop it by complaining, by protesting, by taking cases to the courts. It got stopped because black people convinced enough white people that “Stop and Frisk” was an issue. It was such a big issue that the Supreme Court declared it unconstitutional. What you suggest wouldn’t have worked here. > [@](#): > > “White Privilege” is a term used to re-direct culpability and blame for shortcomings and in and of itself is not a real subject, issue or thing because it is only created when comparing someone else deficits. It isn’t about “blame” and it isn’t about “culpability.” Its a recognition of reality. > [@](#): > > It is a term used by those who cannot accept the reality before their eyes, or because they don’t have any other plausible answers. With all of the exterior influence in the form of assistance and help, and nothing changes; it only means the problem is rooted in the black community and needs to be addressed there before anything else will work. Nobody uses white privilege as an excuse. And it is impossible to look at the history of black people in America, from slavery, to the civil rights movement, to voting rights and suppression, it should be impossible to look at all of that and to conclude that the problems are “rooted in the black community” and that its simply their responsibility to “sort it out”. That you think that this is the case suggests you probably have gaps in your knowledge. This is such an outlandish claim that I am unsure exactly how you came to formulate it. So help us out here. How is it exactly did you come to these conclusions? Make a case for what you’ve said here. > [@](#): > > In order to be helped, you need to help yourself first, otherwise your endeavors will fail. That is all there is to it. Black communities all over America are working their arses off to help each other out. That you don’t recognize that is a classic example of privilege. ---
**Author:** ![anomalous1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e56c9b/32.png) [@anomalous1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/anomalous1)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2018, 8:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-privilage/808511/120 "2018-02-12T08:24:18Z")
A dropping crime rate correlates with police not searching subjects (statistics will not go up, but down for narcotics possession, weapons etc…) Stop and Frisk applied to everybody. It inadvertently affected a disproportionate amount of blacks because via statistics, those were more prone to criminal activity. Sad, but true. It is about recognition of a problem that permeates black communities, why so much criminal activity? There are other poor communities that have a much lower crime rate. It is a community problem. There are no gaps in my knowledge here, now the Local, State or Federal government when it comes to this and I do not have to build a case for you, do your own homework. Here’s a tip; Check crime statistics and race on the FBI website or that of urban police departments. That is the conclusion. The numbers do not lie. I suggest you return to reality if you believe that issues such as Stop and Frisk are elements or anyhow closely related to this non-concept of “White Privilege”. They are a proactive measure to stop crime. This “White Privilege” thing exists only in imaginations, it is not real and it is a fallacy, promoted in jest; “It can’t be us, it’s them” deniability. It is in fact used as a source of indirect blame and there is no way one can deny that as much as they’d like to twist their words around, it is based on a double standard of racism (example, if I was black and had said this, the term would not be used, don’t even deny that). It fits an agenda and that is all there is to it. Anything that is not done or neglected to be done to help the black community is dubbed “White Privilege”, a cop out for those who cannot realign and reattach themselves to the reality of things. White Privilege only exists in the imagination; when you compare one group that is better off than the other or has or does not have something or something to do or not do, one will look privileged. Again, my argument is based on statistics and the cores of police work (of which I’ve been privy through friendships) and not out of confusion or emotion about the issue. If you have actual accounts and data on something, you must rely on that, not emotional detachment of reality and wanting to believe something is so, without evidence. As I’ve said, these statistics are publicly available, so it’s dealers choice on what you want to read to prove my point. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-privilage/808511.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-privilage/808511.md?page=7)