# White strobe lights on school busses - Reason? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 13, 2002, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-strobe-lights-on-school-busses-reason/142445 "2002-12-13T05:08:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![TVGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/82dd89/32.png) [@TVGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TVGuy)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2002, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-strobe-lights-on-school-busses-reason/142445/1 "2002-12-13T05:08:29Z")
I just got back from a vacation trip to Florida. While there, I observed something I’ve seen only in (I think) Nevada before. All of the county school busses had white painted roofs and a single white strobe light mounted at the rear center of the roof. No place I’ve ever lived has had this system, so I have no idea for the reason for doing this - other than the seemingly obvious reason of enhance visibility and better conspicuity (like a 45 foot yellow school bus isn’t conspicuous enough?) Does anyone know the reasons and rationale behind the strobe lights and white roofs? Is it just to draw attention to the bus? Is it so police plans can track a stolen or hijacked bus? Was there just a really good strobe light and white paint salesman travelling through the southern states recently? ---
**Author:** ![Spacegirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e47774/32.png) [@Spacegirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spacegirl)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2002, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-strobe-lights-on-school-busses-reason/142445/2 "2002-12-13T05:25:22Z")
Just checking in, we have those in Minnesota too, and I always wondered the same thing. Anybody?..Bueller? ---
**Author:** ![Ringo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/779978/32.png) [@Ringo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ringo)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2002, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-strobe-lights-on-school-busses-reason/142445/3 "2002-12-13T05:28:29Z")
We don’t have the white roofs, but we’ve got the strobes. I’ll opine that the strobes are simply a visibility aid. ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2002, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-strobe-lights-on-school-busses-reason/142445/4 "2002-12-13T05:33:00Z")
This is a bit of a WAG on my part, but here goes: Back in the mid-80’s there was a trucker’s strike that got pretty nasty, with sniper attacks against scab drivers. A bus was shot in a case of mistaken identity (early morning, winter time, with the bus running with the interior lights **out** ) and immediately after that, all the buses in the area began running with their interior lights on, so that no one would shoot them, thinking that they were a scab trucker. The light on the top, is probably there so that at night, people won’t mistake the bus for a semi, and will be more cautious around it. The buses here in TN have the strobe light on them as well. I think that it’s been mandated by law that all the newer buses have them. ---
**Author:** ![Ringo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/779978/32.png) [@Ringo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ringo)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2002, 5:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-strobe-lights-on-school-busses-reason/142445/5 "2002-12-13T05:47:22Z")
And I’ve noticed construction vehicles sporting them as well. ---
**Author:** ![Guy\_Montag](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9d8465/32.png) [@Guy\_Montag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guy_Montag)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2002, 6:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-strobe-lights-on-school-busses-reason/142445/6 "2002-12-13T06:00:56Z")
I recently spent about a year in Jacksonville, FL and they have them there too. my guess would be visibility, considering the pea-soup fog they get almost daily. ---
**Author:** ![Wikkit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c0e974/32.png) [@Wikkit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wikkit)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2002, 7:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-strobe-lights-on-school-busses-reason/142445/7 "2002-12-13T07:26:53Z")
The strobe at our school was only turned on during precipitation or fog. The white roof makes the bus cooler in the summer. I’d go as the guys at Bluebird, but the plant closed down a few months ago… ---
**Author:** ![GFREE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/46a35a/32.png) [@GFREE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GFREE)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2012, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-strobe-lights-on-school-busses-reason/142445/8 "2012-01-31T13:01:12Z")
Regarding the DANGERS OF STROBES: Folks, these strobes are far more dangerous than they are good. As a pilot, one must turn off strobes in fog, rain, snow due to vertigo. This is the same on the ground as it is in the air. Why would you wish to “blind” drivers following a bus, particularly over a long distance. These strobes SHOULD BE OUTLAWED and NOT USED. Wikipedia: Flicker vertigo is “an imbalance in brain-cell activity caused by exposure to low-frequency flickering (or flashing) of a relatively bright light” [1] The strobe light effect causes persons who are vulnerable to flicker vertigo to become disoriented, lose control of the aircraft (Vehicle). Due to the intensity of the brilliant white light source, the intended use for strobes is during daylight hours of operation. Strobes should really not be used in inclement weather, in the clouds or on the ground as this can cause flicker vertigo. BUT THIS IS WHEN MOST BUS DRIVERS USE THE STROBES ! THE WORST TIME TO HAVE THEM ON!!! Aviation FAR 91.209—You must use position and anti-collision lights between sunset and sunrise, but this regulation says you can turn off the anti-collision lights for safety, such as when flying in precipitation. Distractions and problems can result from a flickering light in the cockpit, anticollision light, strobe lights, or other aircraft lights and can cause flicker vertigo. If continuous, the possible physical reactions can be nausea, dizziness, grogginess, unconsciousness, headaches, or confusion. The pilot should try to eliminate any light source causing blinking or flickering problems in the cockpit. Flicker vertigo has been reported as the cause of some aviation accidents. Twenty two percent of helicopter pilots and 30 percent of airplane pilots said flight through fog with a rotating beacon had caused flickering light in the cockpit. At night, anti-collision lights reflecting off the clouds can produce the effect. Flicker vertigo can develop when viewing rotating beacons, strobe lights, or reflections of these off water or the clouds. With the above information readilly available, Did the transportation board fail to do their research prior to having these installed? Have they ever travelled 15 minutes behind a bus with strobes in the dark, and rain? IT IS VERY BLINDING and DISTRACTING If they don’t feel a large yellow vehicle is visible enough, add reflective paint, more lighting (Like some trailer trucks) But not a Blinding strobe light! GFREE in New Hampshire ---
**Author:** ![johnpost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f17d59/32.png) [@johnpost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/johnpost)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2012, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-strobe-lights-on-school-busses-reason/142445/9 "2012-01-31T13:19:36Z")
zombie or not, school bus yellow is very visible in the daylight but not at night. in the northern states school buses, especially rural routes, travel in the dark morning and night. the visual alert of a strobe will penetrate in snowstorms. the lights are set back from the from to not have as much reflection to the driver (a small plane pilot is much closer to the light). and above all don’t drive your school bus at altitudes above the road surface. ---
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2012, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-strobe-lights-on-school-busses-reason/142445/10 "2012-01-31T13:24:48Z")
A [strobe light](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strobe_light) is one that rapidly flashes on and off. Do you guys mean a floodlight? ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2012, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-strobe-lights-on-school-busses-reason/142445/11 "2012-01-31T13:30:42Z")
It’s not for traffic light pre-emption, is it? > **[Traffic signal preemption](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traffic_signal_preemption)** > > Traffic signal preemption (also called traffic signal prioritisation) is a system that allows an operator to override the normal operation of traffic lights. The most common use of these systems manipulates traffic signals in the path of an emergency vehicle, halting conflicting traffic and allowing the emergency vehicle right-of-way, thereby reducing response times and enhancing traffic safety. Signal preemption can also be used on tram, light-rail and bus rapid transit systems, to allow public ... ---
**Author:** ![Chessic\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7c8e57/32.png) [@Chessic\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chessic_Sense)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2012, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-strobe-lights-on-school-busses-reason/142445/12 "2012-01-31T13:45:19Z")
> [@njtt](#): > > A [strobe light](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strobe_light) is one that rapidly flashes on and off. Do you guys mean a floodlight? No, they/we mean ‘strobe’. They flash. Anywho, fog generally burns away by the office worker’s morning commute, but it’s present quite often at 6 a.m. in early fall and spring. ---
**Author:** ![Macnbaish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@Macnbaish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Macnbaish)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2012, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-strobe-lights-on-school-busses-reason/142445/13 "2012-01-31T16:28:52Z")
Growing up in Indiana they were definitely useful during foggy mornings to increase visibility of the buses - in fact that was really the only time you could even tell they were turned on. The strobe is a very slow strobe… maybe one flash every few seconds - I don’t think there is much risk of adverse consequences there. ---
**Author:** ![Lukeinva](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lukeinva/32/17872_2.png) [@Lukeinva](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lukeinva)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2012, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-strobe-lights-on-school-busses-reason/142445/14 "2012-01-31T17:15:00Z")
Interestingly… a bus is a mass transportation vehicle, whereas buss means kiss. So… school busses mean school kisses. The plural is buses. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2012, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-strobe-lights-on-school-busses-reason/142445/15 "2012-01-31T17:16:44Z")
> [@Lukeinva](#): > > Interestingly… a bus is a mass transportation vehicle, whereas buss means kiss. So… school busses mean school kisses. The plural is buses. I’ve seen the plural of “bus” spelled both ways, though “buses” is far more common. ---
**Author:** ![ShibbOleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@ShibbOleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShibbOleth)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2012, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-strobe-lights-on-school-busses-reason/142445/16 "2012-01-31T17:25:41Z")
There was a [really bad school bus crash in Carrolton, Kentucky](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carrollton,_Kentucky_bus_collision) school bus crash. This may have been one of the triggers, as it was a foggy night and a (very drunk) driver didn’t see the bus as he sped down I-71. > [@](#): > > Changes in Kentucky > > Kentucky now requires all school buses to have nine emergency exits—more than any other federal or state standard. This includes front and back doors, a side door, four emergency windows and two roof exits. The bus that crashed at Carrollton had only front and back exits, and 11 rows of 39" seats, including the crucial area near the rear door. > > Buses used by Kentucky schools must also have a cage around the fuel tank, a stronger frame and roof to resist crumpling on impact and rollover, high-backed seats, extra seat padding, a fuel system that slows leaks, flame-retardant seats and floors, reflective tape on all emergency exits, **and strobe lights on the exterior**. Schools also must have a diesel-powered fleet. > > In 1991, Kentucky enacted stricter drunk driving laws. Obviously it’s visibility related. ---
**Author:** ![thelabdude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dc4da7/32.png) [@thelabdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelabdude)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2012, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-strobe-lights-on-school-busses-reason/142445/17 "2012-01-31T18:54:49Z")
> [@GFREE](#): > > Regarding the DANGERS OF STROBES: > > Folks, these strobes are far more dangerous than they are good. As a pilot, one must turn off strobes in fog, rain, snow due to vertigo. > This is the same on the ground as it is in the air. Why would you wish to “blind” drivers following a bus, particularly over a long distance. These strobes SHOULD BE OUTLAWED and NOT USED. > > Wikipedia: > Flicker vertigo is “an imbalance in brain-cell activity caused by exposure to low-frequency flickering (or flashing) of a relatively bright light” > [1] The strobe light effect causes persons who are vulnerable to flicker vertigo to become disoriented, lose control of the aircraft (Vehicle). > Due to the intensity of the brilliant white light source, the intended use for strobes is during daylight hours of operation. > > Strobes should really not be used in inclement weather, in the clouds or on the ground as this can cause flicker vertigo. BUT THIS IS WHEN MOST BUS DRIVERS USE THE STROBES ! THE WORST TIME TO HAVE THEM ON!!! > > Aviation FAR 91.209—You must use position and anti-collision lights between sunset and sunrise, but this regulation says you can turn off the anti-collision lights for safety, such as when flying in precipitation. > > Distractions and problems can result from a flickering light in the cockpit, anticollision light, strobe lights, or other aircraft lights and can cause flicker vertigo. If continuous, the possible physical reactions can be nausea, dizziness, grogginess, unconsciousness, headaches, or confusion. The pilot should try to eliminate any light source causing blinking or flickering problems in the cockpit. > > Flicker vertigo has been reported as the cause of some aviation accidents. Twenty two percent of helicopter pilots and 30 percent of airplane pilots said flight through fog with a rotating beacon had caused flickering light in the cockpit. > > At night, anti-collision lights reflecting off the clouds can produce the effect. Flicker vertigo can develop when viewing rotating beacons, strobe lights, or reflections of these off water or the clouds. > > With the above information readilly available, Did the transportation board fail to do their research prior to having these installed? > Have they ever travelled 15 minutes behind a bus with strobes in the dark, and rain? IT IS VERY BLINDING and DISTRACTING > > If they don’t feel a large yellow vehicle is visible enough, add reflective paint, more lighting (Like some trailer trucks) > But not a Blinding strobe light! > > GFREE in New Hampshire No matter how dumb an idea is, there is no stopping it if it involves the safety of school children. I don’t see a need for roof top strobes, but they are relatively harmless. Now a baseball bat to the head of whoever decided to strobe the headlights while the bus is stopped picking up children. Great idea to leave the oncoming drivers blinded. I have seen the white roofs, and assumed to control the heat. More important as school has moved into August. ---
**Author:** ![Blakeyrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecd19e/32.png) [@Blakeyrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blakeyrat)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2012, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-strobe-lights-on-school-busses-reason/142445/18 "2012-01-31T19:44:09Z")
We have these (at least where I live) in Washington State. They’re _great_ for foggy roads-- in fact, after seeing how far the visibility carries in fog I started wondering why they don’t equip all big vehicles with them. Edit: crap I didn’t see it was a thread from 2002. Sorry all. ---
**Author:** ![MikeF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@MikeF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MikeF)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2012, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-strobe-lights-on-school-busses-reason/142445/19 "2012-01-31T19:47:23Z")
Yes, the blinking light will enable you to see the otherwise invisible huge yellow vehicle at a distance. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2012, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-strobe-lights-on-school-busses-reason/142445/20 "2012-01-31T19:51:06Z")
I’ve seen these plenty of times, and it’s not even remotely close to blinding. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-strobe-lights-on-school-busses-reason/142445.md?page=2)