# White-supremacist radicals in the U.S. armed forces?! **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 13, 2006, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-supremacist-radicals-in-the-u-s-armed-forces/368527 "2006-08-13T05:30:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2006, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-supremacist-radicals-in-the-u-s-armed-forces/368527/1 "2006-08-13T05:30:03Z")
[Recent expose by the SPLC’s Intelligence Project.](http://www.splcenter.org/intel/news/item.jsp?pid=79) Is this something to be worried about? Or are these shitstains too few in numbers to make a practical difference? ---
**Author:** ![FRDE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e68b1a/32.png) [@FRDE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FRDE)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2006, 9:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-supremacist-radicals-in-the-u-s-armed-forces/368527/2 "2006-08-13T09:58:07Z")
Best place for them, preferably in a very racially mixed platoon. By the time they’ve finished basic training, they’ll have some odd amendments to their beliefs, and after surviving an ambush in Iraq, they’ll go for anyone who mutters an insult about their buddy in a bar. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2006, 11:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-supremacist-radicals-in-the-u-s-armed-forces/368527/3 "2006-08-13T11:31:20Z")
I was under the impression that such people, when found out, were separated from the Armed Forces. ---
**Author:** ![GLWasteful](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f05b48/32.png) [@GLWasteful](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GLWasteful)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2006, 11:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-supremacist-radicals-in-the-u-s-armed-forces/368527/4 "2006-08-13T11:53:45Z")
[QUOTE=Monty] I was under the impression that such people, when found out, were separated from the Armed Forces. [/QUOTE] But with quotas not being met these days, certain personality traits that used to be winnowed out are being overlooked. ---
**Author:** ![FRDE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e68b1a/32.png) [@FRDE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FRDE)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2006, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-supremacist-radicals-in-the-u-s-armed-forces/368527/5 "2006-08-13T13:46:53Z")
I read recently (no cite) that the UK army was having a problem with recruits - they actually find people who have been in prison better recruits - physically fitter and with an understanding of rules Young nutters make good soldiers ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2006, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-supremacist-radicals-in-the-u-s-armed-forces/368527/6 "2006-08-13T14:07:08Z")
Aren’t the Services meeting their quotas? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2006, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-supremacist-radicals-in-the-u-s-armed-forces/368527/7 "2006-08-13T15:57:09Z")
[QUOTE=FRDE] Best place for them, preferably in a very racially mixed platoon. By the time they’ve finished basic training, they’ll have some odd amendments to their beliefs, and after surviving an ambush in Iraq, they’ll go for anyone who mutters an insult about their buddy in a bar. [/QUOTE] I wish I could believe that, but this appears to be a conscious program to infiltrate racist zealots into the armed forces, where they can acquire military experience to use later in a racial war. **And** we’re sending them where they’ll have a chance to, on odd occasions, pound on nonwhite (well, not **quite** white) people. I don’t know if serving in mixed platoons is going to be enough to counteract their preconditioning plus that reinforcement. ---
**Author:** ![FRDE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e68b1a/32.png) [@FRDE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FRDE)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2006, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-supremacist-radicals-in-the-u-s-armed-forces/368527/8 "2006-08-13T16:51:46Z")
Well BrainGlutton Perhaps we should conduct an experiment ---
**Author:** ![Bill\_Door](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@Bill\_Door](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bill_Door)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2006, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-supremacist-radicals-in-the-u-s-armed-forces/368527/9 "2006-08-13T16:55:21Z")
Not that I approve of the goals, but you have to admit that tactically it’s sound. Given that these days you can get sent to prison for playing [paintball](http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,113310,00.html) you need some way to train the troops. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2006, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-supremacist-radicals-in-the-u-s-armed-forces/368527/10 "2006-08-13T16:57:44Z")
[QUOTE=FRDE] Best place for them, preferably in a very racially mixed platoon. By the time they’ve finished basic training, they’ll have some odd amendments to their beliefs, and after surviving an ambush in Iraq, they’ll go for anyone who mutters an insult about their buddy in a bar. [/QUOTE] It would be nice if this was true but unfortunately, it is not always the case. I’ve spoken to more than one veteran, even combat veterans, who came out of the service just as racist as when they went in. Rather than being grateful to non-whites who served with them, they shift things in their brains so that everything bad that happened was their _fault_. Racism is not rational. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2006, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-supremacist-radicals-in-the-u-s-armed-forces/368527/11 "2006-08-13T17:03:05Z")
[QUOTE=FRDE] Well BrainGlutton Perhaps we should conduct an experiment [/QUOTE] What, with white rats? Who’s going to be the control group? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2006, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-supremacist-radicals-in-the-u-s-armed-forces/368527/12 "2006-08-13T17:08:56Z")
Timothy McVeigh was a veteran of GWI. He was also a white supremacist who used _The Turner Diaries_ as the model for his crime. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2006, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-supremacist-radicals-in-the-u-s-armed-forces/368527/13 "2006-08-13T17:36:23Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] [Recent expose by the SPLC’s Intelligence Project.](http://www.splcenter.org/intel/news/item.jsp?pid=79) Is this something to be worried about? Or are these shitstains too few in numbers to make a practical difference? [/QUOTE] How many does the SPLC think there are in the military? I didn’t see any hard figures in the report to which you linked. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2006, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-supremacist-radicals-in-the-u-s-armed-forces/368527/14 "2006-08-13T19:33:13Z")
[QUOTE=Shodan] How many does the SPLC think there are in the military? I didn’t see any hard figures in the report to which you linked. Regards, Shodan [/QUOTE] Neither did I. Any figures would be speculative anyway – it’s not something the recruits would put down in their paperwork. ---
**Author:** ![nameless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/779978/32.png) [@nameless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nameless)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2006, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-supremacist-radicals-in-the-u-s-armed-forces/368527/15 "2006-08-13T21:05:43Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] Neither did I. Any figures would be speculative anyway – it’s not something the recruits would put down in their paperwork. [/QUOTE] There was this number, for what it’s worth… > [@](#): > > Barfield, who is based at Fort Lewis, said he has identified and submitted evidence on 320 extremists there in the past year. So 320 potential extremists by one DoD investigator. Not sure how many there are and how much territory each one covers, but could we reasonably extrapolate up if we had that information? Also, this… > [@](#): > > Every year, the Army’s Criminal Investigation Division conducts a threat assessment of extremist and gang activity among army personnel. “Every year, they come back with ‘minimal activity,’ which is inaccurate,” said Barfield. “It’s not epidemic, but there’s plenty of evidence we’re talking numbers well into the thousands, just in the Army.” As you say, speculation. Is there any information pertaining to how many extremists are present in the general population? I would be interested in whether the Army compare favorably (implied conclusion: selection process is generally successful) or unfavorably (implied conclusion: selection process is unsuccessful and the Army is a massive target for such extremists) against the general population? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2006, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-supremacist-radicals-in-the-u-s-armed-forces/368527/16 "2006-08-13T22:55:30Z")
Of course, “gang activity” would include a lot besides white supremacists. ---
**Author:** ![GLWasteful](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f05b48/32.png) [@GLWasteful](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GLWasteful)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2006, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-supremacist-radicals-in-the-u-s-armed-forces/368527/17 "2006-08-14T04:34:41Z")
[QUOTE=Monty] Aren’t the Services meeting their quotas? [/QUOTE] Understanding that I’m braking a crapload of rules posting _sans_ cite, I recall hearing (on NPR if memory serves) that all branches (with, I believe, one exception) were coming up short and had been for a while. I will try and find something that either backs me up, or proves me full of shit, and my reaction will be based accordingly. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2006, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-supremacist-radicals-in-the-u-s-armed-forces/368527/18 "2006-08-14T15:26:06Z")
[QUOTE=Monty] Aren’t the Services meeting their quotas? [/QUOTE] According to [this](http://www.military.com/NewsContent/0,13319,FL_recruit_040105,00.html) site, no, but according to [this](http://powerlineblog.com/archives/011439.php) site, yes. ---
**Author:** ![GLWasteful](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f05b48/32.png) [@GLWasteful](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GLWasteful)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2006, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-supremacist-radicals-in-the-u-s-armed-forces/368527/19 "2006-08-14T16:24:30Z")
Well, in digging around for a bit, it appears that I was partially mistaken. [PBS](http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/military/jan-june05/recruiting_5-12.html), [Salon](http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/military/jan-june05/recruiting_5-12.html), [USA Today](http://usatoday.printthis.clickability.com/pt/cpt?action=cpt&title=USATODAY.com&expire=&urlID=16444392&fb=Y&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.usatoday.com%2Fprintedition%2Fnews%2F20051202%2F1a_lede02.art.htm&partnerID=1660), [Vanity Fair](http://www.vanityfair.com/commentary/content/printables/051031roco02?print=true), [The New York Times](http://www.nytimes.com/2005/05/03/national/03recruit.html?ex=1272772800&en=cb3c8eef21a24a5d&ei=5090&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss) and [The Washington Post](http://www.truthout.org/cgi-bin/artman/exec/view.cgi/37/9750) indicate that it’s an issue, but [Armed Forces Journal](http://www.armedforcesjournal.com/2006/03/1814016) maintains that while it’s a concern, the problem seems to be more along the lines of differences between professional service personnel and civilians. I guess this was kind of a wash, but it does appear that meeting quotas is something that needs to be addressed, at the very least. ---
**Author:** ![Common\_Tater](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/common_tater/32/13846_2.png) [@Common\_Tater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Common_Tater)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2006, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-supremacist-radicals-in-the-u-s-armed-forces/368527/20 "2006-08-15T01:09:09Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] Timothy McVeigh was a veteran of GWI. He was also a white supremacist who used _The Turner Diaries_ as the model for his crime. [/QUOTE] Yes, and Oswald was a self-avowed marxist who renounced his citizenship, defected to the soviet union, married the KGB station chief’s daughter, and was allowed back into the U.s. in a matter of weeks and eventually, by most accounts, had a passing interest in the murder of a U.s. president. But never mind that, I saw the movie and it was really the “right wing” industrial military complex and/or Lyndon Johnson, UFos, the illuminati, Castro , or perhaps the Secret Service or Richard Nixon who was _really_ behind the whole deal. If I missed anyone, my humblest apoligies. No, the military has extremists of all shapes and sizes, I know because I was there - latinos, blacks, whites and golly knows what. What do you expect in one of the largest organizations around? The SPLC must have had a slow news day and needed to fill some “white space”; the .mil in general does a pretty good job of identifying nutbags overall but see above. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-supremacist-radicals-in-the-u-s-armed-forces/368527.md?page=2)