# (white Supremacist) Scum Murdered My Neighbors **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 2, 2005, 9:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-supremacist-scum-murdered-my-neighbors/292573 "2005-03-02T09:04:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kolak_of_twilo/32/73_2.png) [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolak_of_Twilo)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2005, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-supremacist-scum-murdered-my-neighbors/292573/41 "2005-03-06T19:51:24Z")
**Eva Luna** , there will a gathering in memoriam of the family on Monday evening at 7pm in the 5200 block of North Lakewood. I thought I would post this since you expressed interest in knowing about anything like this. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2005, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-supremacist-scum-murdered-my-neighbors/292573/42 "2005-03-10T15:52:17Z")
[Someone owes Matthew Hale an apology](http://www.nbc5.com/news/4270937/detail.html??z=dp&dpswid=1167317&dppid=65172). I doubt if he will hold his breath for it though. > [@](#): > > In a Thursday morning news conference, Wisconsin authorities did not confirm that Ross was the person who killed himself Wednesday, but did say that there was evidence that the suicide victim might be involved in the killings at Lefkow’s home 10 days ago. > > Ross, 57, recently had a case dismissed by Judge Joan Lefkow, whose mother, Donna Humphrey, and husband, Michael Lefkow, were killed in their Andersonville, Ill., home 10 days ago, according to WMAQ-TV. > > According to the Chicago Tribune, the man’s suicide note said that the judgment had cost the him “his house, his job and family,” and claimed responsibility for the slayings. ---
**Author:** ![Trunk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/87869e/32.png) [@Trunk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trunk)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2005, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-supremacist-scum-murdered-my-neighbors/292573/43 "2005-03-10T16:04:38Z")
This thread is such a beautiful example of why vigilanteeism is wrong. It shows just how much power the media has, how much one’s preconceived notions influence their stance, how completely irrational people become when they let their emotions speak instead of the facts, how rumor and innuendo turn into “fact”. It’s really something. ---
**Author:** ![Trunk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/87869e/32.png) [@Trunk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trunk)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2005, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-supremacist-scum-murdered-my-neighbors/292573/44 "2005-03-10T16:16:41Z")
> [@Kolak](#): > > I don’t know for certain who did this. I just know, when I came home yesterday, two of my neighbors had been murdered. The assumption is that this was done by white supremacy scumbags. And just what kind of things do these assumptions get us. . . > [@Kolak](#): > > What sorry slime sucking losers are you to feel that the “white race” in this nation has ever been anything other than the favored race? How did you fuck up your lives so horribly to think that anyone BUT those of the white race are favored? > > You make me reconsider my oppostion to the death penalty like never before. > IF HELL EXISTS, I WILL BE THROWING GASOLINE ON THE FLAMES THAT CONSUME YOU! Don’t even know where this one came from. . .“the talk”. . . > [@](#): > > Today the talk is that the caller ID at their house showed several calls on Sunday evening from the Metropolitan Correctional Facility downtown. This is where dickwad Matt Hale is being held. He is supposedly cut off from everyone with only 2 monitored visits per month from his parents. So, what happened here? Why was someone calling the Lefkows house from there? The possible things this implies sicken me. > > I don’t recall feeling this much anger about something in a long time. That’s exactly when you should back off your crazy pronouncements of throwing gasoline on the flames. . . I don’t care if the aryans are scumbags. It’s always a scumbag that gets blamed in something like this. No one’s going vigilante on the priest next door. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2005, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-supremacist-scum-murdered-my-neighbors/292573/45 "2005-03-10T17:19:11Z")
> [@Trunk](#): > > It shows just how much power the media has, how much one’s preconceived notions influence their stance, how completely irrational people become when they let their emotions speak instead of the facts, how rumor and innuendo turn into “fact”. You know, the OP starts with “I don’t know for certain who did this.” And a number of other people said the same thing. Guess what? Most of what you’re reading here is an emotional reaction to something terrible. Would it kill you to give people a little leeway there? ---
**Author:** ![sperfur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9adbd/32.png) [@sperfur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sperfur)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2005, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-supremacist-scum-murdered-my-neighbors/292573/46 "2005-03-10T17:24:25Z")
> [@Fear Itself](#): > > [Someone owes Matthew Hale an apology](http://www.nbc5.com/news/4270937/detail.html??z=dp&dpswid=1167317&dppid=65172). I doubt if he will hold his breath for it though. I’d be interested to know _who_ you think owes him an apology. He tried to have her killed once - wouldn’t that automatically make him (or a follower of his) a prime suspect in this case? Does this mean that you feel all supsects who are later cleared of a crime are owed an apology? Or am I reading too much into your statement? That, and he hasn’t been completely cleared yet. I didn’t see anything that says that this guy wasn’t a follower of his, that he acted alone (except for a suicide note that has not yet been verified), or that they are even 100% sure he did it. Seems to me that you’re making assumptions here without all the fact, just like others did before. ---
**Author:** ![sperfur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9adbd/32.png) [@sperfur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sperfur)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2005, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-supremacist-scum-murdered-my-neighbors/292573/47 "2005-03-10T17:29:05Z")
> [@Trunk](#): > > It’s always a scumbag that gets blamed in something like this. The wrong scumbag may have been initially suspected (we don’t know yet), but aryan or not, the person who committed this crime is definately a scumbag. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2005, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-supremacist-scum-murdered-my-neighbors/292573/48 "2005-03-10T17:34:06Z")
Okay, okay, I’ll do it. Matthew Hale, I’m sorry we thought you were mixed up in this. I’ll put in a good word for you and maybe Satan will change your reservation to a slightly cooler place in Hell. ---
**Author:** ![Trunk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/87869e/32.png) [@Trunk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trunk)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2005, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-supremacist-scum-murdered-my-neighbors/292573/49 "2005-03-10T17:44:48Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > You know, the OP starts with “I don’t know for certain who did this.” And a number of other people said the same thing. Guess what? Most of what you’re reading here is an emotional reaction to something terrible. Would it kill you to give people a little leeway there? I know. And I quoted that. And then s/he used that assumption and RAN with it. By her third or fourth post, do you think she was still of the mindset, “well, I’m mad at the white supremacists, if in fact they were responsible.” Or was s/he full-on “they did this”? If s/he’d been reacting without becoming completely emotion, she would have stayed in the territory of > [@](#): > > I don’t know for certain who did this and not moved into the territory of > [@](#): > > What sorry slime sucking losers are you to feel that the “white race” in this nation has ever been anything other than the favored race? How did you fuck up your lives so horribly to think that anyone BUT those of the white race are favored? > > You make me reconsider my oppostion to the death penalty like never before. > IF HELL EXISTS, I WILL BE THROWING GASOLINE ON THE FLAMES THAT CONSUME YOU! That’s how vigilanteeism works, and that’s my point. She went from cautious doubt to violent thoughts in a day. And she and we should always look at how easy it is to do that. ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2005, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-supremacist-scum-murdered-my-neighbors/292573/50 "2005-03-10T18:02:03Z")
I have “violent thoughts” every day-and strong feelings. I am no supporter of vigilanteism, but it’s long way from outcry over two brutal murders and reviling white supremicists to vigilante crowds with tar/feather/rope. IMO, Hale can take a bit more abuse–there aren’t words bad enough for people like him. I am glad to see the outrage–I am afraid that we as people will become inured to this kind of thing. We shouldn’t–and a bb is a safe place to vent such feelings. Hale seemed the most likely suspect–and we still don’t know if there is a link. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2005, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-supremacist-scum-murdered-my-neighbors/292573/51 "2005-03-10T18:07:20Z")
> [@sperfur](#): > > I’d be interested to know _who_ you think owes him an apology. He tried to have her killed once - wouldn’t that automatically make him (or a follower of his) a prime suspect in this case? > > Does this mean that you feel all supsects who are later cleared of a crime are owed an apology? Do you think that suspects in a crime should be doused in gasoline and set ablaze? The OP does, and that is what I think deserves an apology. I am not criticizing the authorities for following up on leads; I am criticizing the posters in this thread who showed that hate is much more satisfying response to grief than forgiveness. ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2005, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-supremacist-scum-murdered-my-neighbors/292573/52 "2005-03-10T18:14:17Z")
WTF? It’s a wee early for forgiveness, eh? And the allusions to dousing with gasoline are mere hyperbole–you took them literally? Jeebus-sometimes I say to my friend that I want to string my youngest kid up by his toes…translation means I am frustrated and annoyed–I would never touch him! \ …it’s for you! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Trunk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/87869e/32.png) [@Trunk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trunk)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2005, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-supremacist-scum-murdered-my-neighbors/292573/53 "2005-03-10T18:19:08Z")
> [@eleanorigby](#): > > Jeebus-sometimes I say to my friend that I want to string my youngest kid up by his toes Do you say it when you just see any old thing wrong, and just jump to the conclusion that he did it? ---
**Author:** ![Trunk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/87869e/32.png) [@Trunk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trunk)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2005, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-supremacist-scum-murdered-my-neighbors/292573/54 "2005-03-10T18:19:17Z")
> [@eleanorigby](#): > > Jeebus-sometimes I say to my friend that I want to string my youngest kid up by his toes Do you say it when you just see any old thing wrong, and jump to the conclusion that he did it? ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2005, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-supremacist-scum-murdered-my-neighbors/292573/55 "2005-03-10T18:25:25Z")
> [@Trunk](#): > > This thread is such a beautiful example of why vigilanteeism is wrong. > > It shows just how much power the media has, how much one’s preconceived notions influence their stance, how completely irrational people become when they let their emotions speak instead of the facts, how rumor and innuendo turn into “fact”. > > It’s really something. True. I never thought Hale himself was behind this, at worst suspecting some fringe follower of his acting alone. All the facts aren’t out yet, but I must confess I enjoy when people who jump to such conclusions are proven wrong. At any rate, Lefkow has the shittiest luck as judge. A friggin copyright case and a fraud case yields death threats and a dead husband and mother. ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2005, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-supremacist-scum-murdered-my-neighbors/292573/56 "2005-03-10T18:46:17Z")
> [@Trunk](#): > > Do you say it when you just see any old thing wrong, and jump to the conclusion that he did it? No-I say it after a day of him at his worst–and a 6 year old can give you a pretty bad day. I’ve been known to say it after he has done something wrong, sure. I get the point you are trying to make, but I think you are missing the point of this thread. Noone wants to go lynch Hale (well, maybe they do, but noone is planning on that). IMO, all the talk about Hell and gasoline etc was just a way for people to vent their outrage at this horrible crime. Nothing more, nothing less. I can’ t see the need for righteousness or even the call for “forgiveness” this soon after the murders, and in the Pit to boot. Guess we see it differently. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2005, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-supremacist-scum-murdered-my-neighbors/292573/57 "2005-03-10T18:54:24Z")
> [@eleanorigby](#): > > IMO, all the talk about Hell and gasoline etc was just a way for people to vent their outrage at this horrible crime. Towards the wrong person. They all look hatefully stupid now. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2005, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-supremacist-scum-murdered-my-neighbors/292573/58 "2005-03-10T20:00:03Z")
> [@Fear Itself](#): > > Do you think that suspects in a crime should be doused in gasoline and set ablaze? The OP does, and that is what I think deserves an apology. To be fair to the OP, the suspects would, hypothetically, already ablaze in hell at the time. The gasoline would be on top of that. ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2005, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-supremacist-scum-murdered-my-neighbors/292573/59 "2005-03-10T20:11:14Z")
Well, OK. but isn’t that one reason for the Pit? To lance some vitriolic boils, as it were? I think if you look back at many threads in the Pit, you’ll find events and time have made them inaccurate and rather foolish. If this guy who committed suicide is indeed the perp–I am sorry for it. One thing I want to know is why these crimes are done. Was he mentally ill? What triggered it etc–if the perp was him, we’ll never know. Same with the school slayings–I want to know why, so that we can work on prevention etc. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2005, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-supremacist-scum-murdered-my-neighbors/292573/60 "2005-03-10T20:30:26Z")
> [@eleanorigby](#): > > Well, OK. but isn’t that one reason for the Pit? To lance some vitriolic boils, as it were? No, the Pit was created to keep people from lancing their boils in the other fora. All in all, it would be better if the Pit wasn’t required, but, people being people, makes it a necessary evil. > [@](#): > > I think if you look back at many threads in the Pit, you’ll find events and time have made them inaccurate and rather foolish. And they were mocked and taunted for it. And so it goes. > [@](#): > > If this guy who committed suicide is indeed the perp–I am sorry for it. One thing I want to know is why these crimes are done. Was he mentally ill? What triggered it etc–if the perp was him, we’ll never know. Sure we will. [The article](http://www.nbc5.com/news/4270937/detail.html??z=dp&dpswid=1167317&dppid=65172) has been updated in the last few hours: > [@](#): > > **Ross, 57, recently had a case dismissed by Judge Joan Lefkow** , whose mother, Donna Humphrey, and husband, Michael Lefkow, were killed in their Andersonville, Ill., home 10 days ago, according to WMAQ-TV. > > According to the Chicago Tribune, **the man’s suicide note said that the judgment had cost him "his house, his job and family** ," and claimed responsibility for the slayings. > > Police pulled this van over Wednesday because it had no taillights and had made an illegal U-turn. As an officer approached, the driver shot himself. > > Ross first filed suit in September 2004 against various entities including the U.S. government, the University of Illinois Medical Center and several lawyers and doctors. > > Ross’ suit, in which he acted as his own attorney, claimed that he was given radiology treatments and chemotherapy without his knowledge for a mouth disease from which he suffered. Ross claimed the treatment caused skin deformations, according to his lawsuit. > > **Joan Lefkow dismissed the complaint in September 2004, but Ross filed a motion to reconsider in October 2004 before Lefko dismissed the suit outright on Jan. 25**. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-supremacist-scum-murdered-my-neighbors/292573.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-supremacist-scum-murdered-my-neighbors/292573.md?page=4)